I call BS. If they bought him to show, he has to have at least some type of pedigree papers in order to be eligible to show. Furthermore, if they bought him from a reputable breeder, they are required to contact the breeder and notify them they intend to rehome this guy. Most of the time, the breeder will prefer to have their dogs returned and they will do the rehoming themselves. The fact that they are asking for $500 and even mentioned they had to pay to have his ears cropped themselves, I'd say they got him from a BYB.

But, I suppose that doesn't quite answer your question. I doubt having no front teeth would really affect the dog's quality of life. But, considering that he may be a BYB dog, there is no guarantee that he may not have other health issues later on. I'd recommend to wait for a suitable from a reputable rescue.

 

I call BS. If they bought him to show, he has to have at least some type of pedigree papers in order to be eligible to show. And if they bought him from a reputable breeder, they are required to contact the breeder and notify them they intend to rehome this guy. Most of the time, the breeder will prefer to have their dogs returned and they will do the rehoming themselves. The fact that they are asking for $500 and even mentioned they had to pay to have his ears cropped themselves, I'd say they got him from a BYB.

I totally agree with Brazen - if he was sold as a show, then they have papers on him!!

 

Thanks guys. I'm certainly not looking to show him, I just want a pet but I do feel bad for him that he gets attacked, has to go through surgery to fix the damage and now his owner wants to sell him because he cannot be shown but has no papers??

Maybe I'll keep looking, your right something seems off about this. I just feel bad for him.

 

The rescues are bursting at the seams atm.

Dogs & puppies of all ages waiting for a home, some from a popular stud dog even on a recent thread in rescue, and at a much better price than this.

You can do a lot w/a rescue. I saw one or two @top 20 obedience recently-I thought that was pretty cool.

 

There are papers on him, they're just selling him without papers, to go to a pet only home. I think the fact they had the ears done themselves proves the dog came from a less than stellar breeder.

 

I thought the same as you when I first read it....but went back and re-read it...

"NO papers as this is a pet price and doesn't even come close to covering what was paid for him, his ear crop, and the surgery after he had been attacked."

it's ambiguous at best, if there were EVER papers on this pup....kind of hard to show a pup who has nothing to be registered with.

p

PS.....he's a cutie, tho

 

You can show a dog with missing teeth. It only becomes a DQ if 4 or more are missing. It would be unlikely you could do much winning with 3 missing. But there are quite a few otherwise very good quality dogs who have been shown successfully with one or two missing teeth.

Since the incisor (front teeth) area is a common one for missing teeth to appear in, I'd take the story about the dog not having them due to an attack with a great big grain of salt. It's just as likely the teeth are missing due to genetics.

 

I agree w/ Casandra - the dog has papers, they just aren't willing to give them to the buyer as they are selling him as a pet only. However, I also agree w/ the others that this dog did not come from a reputable breeder or it would be going back to the breeder instead of being sold (unless the seller is being a little underhanded and is trying to recoup some of the money he's spent w/o letting the breeder know what's going on!). On the other hand, I don't know what most rescues are asking for donations when rescuing a dog in other parts of the country, but around here it's anywhere from $100 to $350, depending on what expenses have been incurred. So $500 isn't that much more than what you're going to spend on getting a rescue dog where you don't have any idea of the background and potential health problems that might arise, just as you don't here (although if they were planning on showing him, you're going to still have to figure in the cost of neutering him). I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't write this dog off just because the current owners probably went to a byb.

 

I'm more worried about the problems from dog attack than anything really. If there was surgery to fix the puppy as the owner says, I don't want it to be lasting medical issues. I guess what I'm trying to say is if the mouth was damaged enough to require surgery and the adult teeth are not coming in, what is the chance more surgeries will be needed or other problems arise due to this injury?

If the puppy is just missing teeth due to genetics I would hope the owner would just say that instead of making up a story that would turn many people away for fear of future issues relating to that injury.

I'm going to email the owner and see if they can shed some light on all of this.

 

...if the mouth was damaged enough to require surgery and the adult teeth are not coming in, what is the chance more surgeries will be needed or other problems arise due to this injury?

The best person to answer that question is the dog's vet. Ask the seller to authorize his vet to discuss this issue with you.

...If the puppy is just missing teeth due to genetics I would hope the owner would just say that instead of making up a story that would turn many people away for fear of future issues relating to that injury.

Agreed, and I would hope so, too.

As for the "papers" and the "pedigree": I think many of the responses you received are based on the assumption the dog is/was registered or registerable with the American Kennel Club and the owner intended to show the dog in AKC's conformation classes. Other registries with which the dog might be registered are: Canadian Kennel Club, Federation Cynologique Internationale, United Kennel Club, United Doberman Club, Continental Kennel Club, States Kennel Club, International Kennel Club. There may be others, I just don't remember them all. Some of these registries are legitimate, in the sense that they offer dog owners valuable services for the fees paid. Other registries are simply databases used to produce colorful certificates, and nothing more.

FWIW, there are ethical breeders who allow their puppy's purchaser the decide whether or not to crop the puppy. So, it is possible (although unlikely, given the other circumstances) this dog came from an ethical breeder. If I were to consider buying this dog, I would want to be very sure the breeder knew and was okay with the current owner selling the dog to me.

Anyway, if I were buying this dog, I would insist on the following conditions:
1) speaking with the vet who operated on the dog about possible long-term effects of the injury;
2) confirming there is no buy-back or right-of-first-refusal stipulation in the seller's original purchase contract;
3) seeing the dog's registration before buying him, to confirm which registry;
4) a sales contract stipulating that the owner will sign the transfer of registration section of the dog's registration upon proof the buyer has had the dog neutered and microchipped (if he hasn't been 'chipped already). I wouldn't want the seller to retain the "papers" and then use them on some other dog.

Just a few random opinions and I hope you find them useful.:wavey:

 

While I'm waiting for the owner to respond I did a search on DT. There's one thread that seems like a simliar thing happened to another Dobe puppy, Hades. I think I'm going to PM her and see if she's had any issues with her puppy as he has gotten bigger.

Thanks again!

 

I think it's the same dog. The ad was placed by someone named hvkbostonsndobes.

 

Rehome

Show Quality from a BYB,...gotta luv it!

 

Here is the reply I recieved:

From what the vet says he will not have any long term effects. His adult teeth are in and he does not have trouble eating or chewing bones, he is just missing those ones in the top front. He is missing from his one canine around to the front on top all his other teeth have come in with no problems. He is all healed up and doesn't even have any scars. This happened about 3 1/2 months ago, so he is all healed. As far as the AKC papers I have already sent them back to his breeder and gotten permission to place him in a pet home. If you are going to neuter him I would be willing to come down a little on his price.


Is it typical to send AKC papers back to the breeder? Should I ask who the breeder is to see if he/she would send me the papers once he's neutered?Since they are in Massilion OH they are not too far from me, I might be taking a trip to see him this weekend.

 

Here is the reply I recieved:

From what the vet says he will not have any long term effects. His adult teeth are in and he does not have trouble eating or chewing bones, he is just missing those ones in the top front. He is missing from his one canine around to the front on top all his other teeth have come in with no problems. He is all healed up and doesn't even have any scars. This happened about 3 1/2 months ago, so he is all healed. As far as the AKC papers I have already sent them back to his breeder and gotten permission to place him in a pet home. If you are going to neuter him I would be willing to come down a little on his price.


Is it typical to send AKC papers back to the breeder? Should I ask who the breeder is to see if he/she would send me the papers once he's neutered?Since they are in Massilion OH they are not too far from me, I might be taking a trip to see him this weekend.

Approximately the same time as the attack on Hades (07.07.10).
http://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman-related-chat/43766-konan-attacked-hades-please-keep-hades-your-prayers.html

 

Whoa...

 

Uggh RFR you know I share your sentiments on this... That was such a BS story. I HATE LIARS

 

Ok, I'm a little confused. You all think this puppy is the same puppy as the Hades on here? And if he is then (& I bet he is!) either 1. She lied to me and he was never AKC registered as she got him for free from an Amish puppymill or 2. She lied to you all and actually bought him from a breeder who must be semi reputable to ask for the papers back but not care if he is neutered or not?

This is too much, as much as I'd like to go see him and help him get away from this person who knows what else she's lying about. Time to move on in my search!!

 

DobesnBoston's philosophy on AKC papers...

I USED to think AKC and only AKC was the way to go, but after working with ( professionally ) and owning my own dogs and showing, doing dog sports ect. I now have a much different outlook and I feel that the papers do NOT make the dog. I would take an unregistered Dobe who was conformationally and tempermentally sound over an AKC registered out of standard dog any day. Papers are nothing more than a slip of paper saying you own your dog and has the parents but they arent worth the paper they are printed on if the dog is from garbage breeding.

 

I have a feeling she's probably lying to everyone in some way or another. I would caution you to go with a reputable rescue or breeder and avoid this all together! Best of luck to you Ares Man. Maybe contact DVDPA or DRU.

 

She certainly goes through dogs. Looks like she has moved on to Bullies (she can probably get more money for them). Hopefully Hades will end up in a responsible, stable home with someone who genuinely cares for him.

 

She certainly goes through dogs.

Yep.

Konan - Bull Terrier foster that was relinquished to another rescue due to the fight between him and Hades.

Hades - Doberman (red) "rescued" from an Amish puppy mill

Sindel - Doberman (black) "show prospect", I believe the breeder is in the questionable breeders thread (LaDobry)

Kitana - Doberman (red)

Spartakus - Doberman (black)

No Name - Doberman (blue)

Rayden - Dalmation purchased as a show prospect, then the story was to "Hopefully show him, not top of my list though as i really got him because i love the breed, but i will for sure be doing Rally with him and if he enjoys it move on to agility." Dog was turned into rescue due to genetic eye deformity when the breeder supposedly did not return her calls / emails about the dog

Ringo Starr - Beagle adopted from shelter

Arkham - Boston Terrier

Magic - Boston Terrier

Pikach - Boston Terrier

PP Kano - Boston Terrier

Bella - Poodle

Lilith - Red Tail Boa

I'm sure I probably missed some as I only looked at threads she started, not all posts.

ETA: Here's another one, although I seriously doubt this one actually exists...

No Name - GSD, schutzhund prospect

Good god that is awful. I went to my first time at the Schutzhund club here last Tuesday ( tomorrow will be 2nd time ) with my GSD and we had a great time. My dog was a little nervous at first but after she caught on she did great. The trainer was great and he couldnt stress enough that it was supposed to be fun for the dog like a game. I didnt see not one dog get hit or anything. I am sorry you had to be subjected to that kind of idiocy. It's no wonder some people speak badly of schutzhund, if they had an experience like yours who could blame them. It's too bad you don't live by me and could go to our club, everyone is really nice and they were all very willing to help out a newbie ( me) and give advice.

And one of the above listed dogs, or maybe another one altogether was used for breeding

No it's not true. My intact male dog ( not a doberman)has been bred a few times and he still doesnt hike his leg inside and his behavior has never changed. BUT why do you feel the dog you are getting is breeding worthy? How old is he? Who is his breeder?

Another one...

Chloe - Rottie

Chloe wasnt aggresive either.... until she hit maturity at 2 years old. I look back now and the suttle signs were there, they always were, but didnt become evident till she was about 2. All I am saying is if the parents at 8 MONTHS old had bad temperment and were so aggressive you couldnt view them then dont fool yourself into thinking your pup wont have issues in the future. 8 months is just a puppy, puppies should not be that aggressive.

 

My guess is that she doesn't have papers. You don't return the papers. I certainly have held papers until spayed/neutered (back before you could do limited registration), but you don't generally return papers. Unless things have really changed in the last 15 years.

(((big, deep, heavy sigh...))) from under what rock do these scumbags crawl?

 

I doubt any responsible breeder would sell a puppy to someone like this, papers or not. it's more likely that she bought the puppy at 5weeks from some broker out of the newspaper that didn't have the time or didn't care to register the litter. Then this person made up the amish puppymill story and posted on DT to validate her actions. Pathetic.

 

I doubt any responsible breeder would sell a puppy to someone like this, papers or not. it's more likely that she bought the puppy at 5weeks from some broker out of the newspaper that didn't have the time or didn't care to register the litter. Then this person made up the amish puppymill story and posted on DT to validate her actions. Pathetic.

Amen!!!

I never did believe the story about the amish puppy mill guy getting scared she would call animal control and gave her the puppy. From what I have seen amish guys don't scare easily and they would rather give up their left nut rather than give anything away for free.

After that I just didn't tend to believe anything she posted. I also didn't get everyone telling her how wonderful she was for getting the puppy treated after being attacked(I even wondered if that was true) when it was her fault the puppy got attacked in the first place.

 

WOW :sadcry: A few of us have been suspicious of DobesNBostons for quite some time now. We took notice of the MANY dogs she had and how they would be there one day and gone the next. When questioned she would never give a direct answer or tell a tale that was filled with discrepencies. Most of her stories didn't make sense or had holes in them that you could drive a Mack truck through. But, deep down inside, for the sake of the dogs, you wanted to believe that the stories that she was telling had an aire of truth about them, because most of them ended well. When she started her thread about how she acquired Hades, I knew she was lying. I've been involved in rescue for over 20 years and lived within 2 hrs of the heart of Pennsylvania Amish Country. I dealt with the Amish on MANY occassions and NEVER would they just give you a dog, especially a puppy, for free, unless they were forced to do so, by someone with authority. A few of us knew from the get go that this post was complete and utter BS.

Posted by DobesNBostons on 6-08-2010

We unintentionally got a new puppy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So my friend and I were just driving around randomly in amish country in the middle of nowhere. We do this often when we are bored and its nice out, we have a GPS so we can always find our way back lol.We saw a handmade sign that said Doberman puppies. So like a dumb dumb i had to go look. We pull up to this farm I guess you could call it. There are two beautiful Dobes behind a horse gate thingy. We go knock, ask about the sign. The woman says oh there is one left my husband is in the barn just go out there. So we head over there and he is coming out we asked about the puppy, he says " oh its right over there" We turn and see in a rabbit cage looking thing this pathetic dobe puppy. I about puked. There were flys everywhere, it reaked in the barn, it was dark, it was hot, the pup had no water and just piss soaked and crap caked hay to sit in in this rabbit cage looking thing, he takes the pup out and its so gross I don't even want to touch it. The tail is infected the dew claws looked infected, he is full of worms, and has what appear to be fly bites or something on his head, I made a comment about the tail and dew claws. he says.... " they were all like that. I don't know why, I did them earlier this time" I was speechless for a minute ( but that only lasted a minute while I had a gabillion thoughts in my head at once), and then I turned into a bitch. It came down to I was taking this puppy or I was coming back with animal control. He gave me the puppy, for free. I still plan to call animal control. I have a vet appt first thing in the am for the little guy. he was sooooo thristy. My friend burst into tears as soon as we got in the car, I was too pissed to cry. I don't know if I am sending him to rescue, placing him myself , or keeping him yet, we'll figure that out after we see what all the vet has to say tomorrow. So here is his tail and dew claws that they hacked off themselves. They actually look better in the pics than in real life, the tail periodically oozes on the one side and i have been trying to keep it clean it has a hard lump on the inside. The one dew claw is really gross too, the other looks like someone cut the dew claw in half and didnt remove it all. I named him Hades.

RedFawnRising hit the nail on the head with her reply to the post. RFR, I am SO :emo11: that I didn't have the guts to thank your post. I was really trying to give her the benefit of the doubt even though in my gut I knew whe was lying.

Poor little red dude.

And wow, I have to say, that is quite amazing to get an Amish fella to hand over a puppy with no money at all changing hands. I really have never known them to surrender quite so easily.

They are pretty hardcore when it comes to their livestock, and sadly, as you saw from the conditions, that is what they consider dogs, livestock.

I hope the little dude ends up having a great life for many long years.

I am SO DISGUSTED right now for many reasons. Liars like DobesNBostons make the honest people that are involved in rescue work so much harder. It is hard enough to gain the trust of people and things like this just make those who already question rescue question it even more. That is why you will hear some of us who are involved in rescue say, lease: work with a REPUTABLE RESCUE. Granted, this isn't specifically about a rescue, but it is about a supposed "rescuer", or someone who claimed to be. SHAME, SHAME, SHAME on her!

DobesNBostons, what happened to all of the dogs that you supposedly "rescued"? What was the REAL STORY with Konan and what happened to that poor dog? What rescue organization were you supposedly a volunteer for? Since you chose to involve us in all of this by posting about these poor dogs, at least have the guts to tell us the TRUTH about what happened to them. I doubt that you will ever answer these questions and if you do, you will probably only tell us more lies.

I think that we should start a whole new thread just for DobesNBostons, just in case she dosen't see this. She was last logged on 10/13/2010 so she is still around. I really think that when we have the facts to prove that a member has been lying to us, that they should be called out . I almost missed this and I'm sure allot of others will unless they are steered to it. If enough people think it is a good idea, I will start a new thread dedicated to DobesNBostons. Let me know what y'all think.

 

Maybe it would be a good idea to just split this thread so we can have a discussion about haydes and DnB and try to help Ares Man find a reputable breeder/rescue.

 

I think that is a FABULOUS idea. Can you lease: split the thread Super Moderator

 

I dunno if she deserves a thread of her own, frankly.

People like her, pathological liars and con artists, thrive on attention.

Perhaps a thread called "Liars, Damn Liars, and BigFatLiars" and we list folks who've been flat out caught lying here, like Rebecca Morton, Dobes4Life, <some banned members redacted>, DobesnBostons, etc, etc.

Really though, unless we could find a way to make the thread productive...I dunno.

I do think it would be useful to have a discussion about how to spot internet liars. When folks are posting anonymously, or semi-anonymously, really all we have is our word--and if that's no good, then it all turns to suckage.

I know there are folks on here who've asked how to spot a troll, how do some of us know when it's a sock puppet, and why and how do some of us smell bullsh*t when others don't yet suspect a thing.

Maybe a discussion of all that, sort of along the lines of internet safety would protect more nice and sincere folks from getting their hearts stomped on and scuffed up.

 

I dunno if she deserves a thread of her own, frankly.

People like her, pathological liars and con artists, thrive on attention.

Perhaps a thread called "Liars, Damn Liars, and BigFatLiars" and we list folks who've been flat out caught lying here, like Rebecca Morton, Dobes4Life, <some banned members redacted>, DobesnBostons, etc, etc.
Really though, unless we could find a way to make the thread productive...I dunno.

I do think it would be useful to have a discussion about how to spot internet liars. When folks are posting anonymously, or semi-anonymously, really all we have is our word--and if that's no good, then it all turns to suckage.

I know there are folks on here who've asked how to spot a troll, how do some of us know when it's a sock puppet, and why and how do some of smell bullsh*t when others don't yet suspect a thing.

Maybe a discussion of all that, sort of along the lines of internet safety would protect more nice and sincere folks from getting their hearts stomped on and scuffed up.

LOVE this title!

 

Geez...this has unraveled into quite a story. I knew the ad sounded funky from the get go but I never ever connected this red boy to Hades!! I remember all too well when she posted about Konan attacking Hades and everyone was outraged that the rescue wouldn't take Konan back, which she was fostering. Great detective work tnh!

It's unfortunate that Hades ended up with the likes of her. I really cannot believe people would make up stories just so they can feel better and/or receive praise or admiration. There's no telling how sick some people are. *sigh*

 

Geez...this has unraveled into quite a story. I knew the ad sounded funky from the get go but I never ever connected this red boy to Hades!! I remember all too well when she posted about Konan attacking Hades and everyone was outraged that the rescue wouldn't take Konan back, which she was fostering. Great detective work tnh!

It's unfortunate that Hades ended up with the likes of her. I really cannot believe people would make up stories just so they can feel better and/or receive praise or admiration. There's no telling how sick some people are. *sigh*

Yup, you can run but you can't hide from tnh317. Don't ever screw up under her watch!

 

I ended up just changing the title of this thread a little bit as cutting and copying posts around was going to be a little confusing for people not already aware of this discussion. I hope this is a reasonable action. carry on...

 

I don't usually get involved in any drama, but geez... really? Really?? If this is all true... I really fell for it. Making up stories like that is just so lame and bringing innocent animals into it... disgusting.

Hopefully she will get the help she obviously needs.

 

WFT? not another one. DT has been rocked over the past few months with crazed, patho-liars...

 

I was about to say the same thing.

What's even worse is that it's the dogs that end up suffering and these people get away with it scot-free.

 

___Really!!!??__

 

What about Hades? Poor puppy... I hope he will find a good home

 

Unfortunately, my guess would be that the first person to show up with $500.00 cash will be Hades new owner. What disturbs me more is what she said in her reply to Ares Man when he asked for more information about Hades- "If you are going to neuter him I would be willing to come down a little on his price." She never even had him neutered and is selling him with the "option" to neuter. Sadly I think that Hades is probably going to become a daddy to MANY.