My first question - Is what is : slightly elevated liver ALT levels ??? Are the numbers slightly high than her last test - Or are you saying they are slightly higher than the Normal range ?

The reason I ask TN - Is there are 2 - I will call them markers then liver values are tested - there Is the ALT and the ALP - The ALT if I remember this right - is the flag that something could be going on with the liver - like Doberman hepatitis or other things . On Ali's last test - about 2 weeks ago - her ALT was normal - but her ALP was slightly higher - The Vet said many things could cause her ALP to be higher - one being old age - Kidneys ? Which we had another test done the other day and it came back normal .

Question 2 --- Was Mocha fixed at a early age ? I have read that having a female spayed early may cause the sleeping pee problem .

Every once in awhile - Ali will have a problem - but it's not a flood - it's like a slow deal and it wakes her up .

Kasia girl had the same problem - and had her on meds for it - But this did not happen till both girls were Older - Ali is almost 11 and Kasia was ? like 12 or 13 before she had the meds . Both were spayed like 6 months or so - can't really remember - but I could ask the boss -I know she will know :wink2:

They be right TN

...Ken

 

Sounds just like spay incontinence. Almost same scenario we went thru with Jada last fall. After a checkup for thyroid and UTI, he put her on a trial run of Proin. It stopped the problem. She is still taking the
Proin. She was spayed at 2 1/2 yrs. She will be 6 next month, so the problem started at 5 1/2 yrs.
Good luck. I hope it is nothing serious with Mocha.

 

That's the drug the vet mentioned, but she wants to rule out other things before starting the meds. So the proin stopped the problem altogether? No accidents, small leaks etc?

 

Ken,

Mocha had a junior wellness panel done back in January and her ALT was slightly elevated, that's why it's was being rechecked after 3 months to see where it is now. Yeah I know, Mocha is just at that age (4) where liver problems will start popping up.

She was spayed at around 18 months, if I remember right, it was after her 2nd heat.

 

She has not had any more problems. No leaks, no accidents. It seemed to solve the problem. She is much happier and we are, too.
Jada is about 75 lb. She is on 50 mg. 1 tablet twice a day.

 

TN --- What I'm more concerned at this time is why her ATL is elevated - I'm not here to worry you ! I love that Mocha ! That is why I'm concurred - ole buddy !

You asked - So I will answer - Ask your Vet about Copper Storage ( aka Doberman Hepatitis ) You can look it up if you would like - But its where there liver can't process protein - All the damn dog food has Copper Sulfate it - so it be called a complete diet and yes - we all need some copper in our diet - But it seems that it can cause problems -- in some dogs OR people . We damn near lost Ali girl from it - It depends on what your Vet says - But You may want to considered finding a very good Internal Medicine Vet and get there thoughts .

I first thought when I started to read your post -- yep -- it's from her spay - But --- then you added the ATL .

At this time - I would ask the Vet to move up her tests to every month from the 3 months

Cressrb was 100% right ! We had Kasia girl on Proin and I think -- with out pulling her records - that was the same rate - and the results were the same as Cressrb

If you have any questions on this - I think I sent you my phone number - if you have more pressing questions

Give Mocha a big hug for me

...Ken

 

Her ALT level in January was 181, this time it's 183 so no significant increase, which is good, but it also didn't go down, which is not so good, IMHO. I'm going to look into natural liver supplements or foods we can give her to help bring that level down back to normal. This is new to me so I'll have to do some reading.

This girl sure does keep me on my toes LOL.

 

TN-- What do's your Vet say about the elevated level ?

 

She said they don't really start worrying/looking further until it gets up there to more than double to 3 times normal value, and according to her, a slightly elevated level does not necessarily mean liver disease, that it can also come from things like allergies, stress, diet, and meds like heartworm medicines. For now she wants to retest every 3-6 months and go from there.

I've been doing some reading; everywhere I look, milk thistle seems to be very highly recommended, as are cottage cheese and egg whites.

 

TN - Ali is on Denamarin - It's a probiotic for her liver -

Glad to hear the Vets comments ! I sure do like that Mocha !!

..Ken

 

Mocha had yet another accident 2 nights ago; same time (evening, about 2 hours after she ate), so this morning we had the X-ray done for stones, which was negative so she's on a 30-day trial of 50mg Proin, every 12 hours.

A 30 day supply (60 pills) from the vet is $33, I was checking around and I can get 180 pills of the 50mg Proin from AlliVet for $47.99, also saw I can get the Bravecto a lot cheaper, about $20 less than my vet charges.

 

OK TN - Time to switch things up :wink2: Lets keep Mocha up - switch up her times - Maybe she would then want to go outside and potty one more time before going to bed

For you ole Buddy --- No Charge :wink2::grin2:

 

LOL, we have been changing things up, taking her out more often but once she's asleep, things just kinda loosen up, I guess. We used to take her out at 5, then usually around 7:30 or so, and then one more time later, around 10:30 or 11. Now we just try to take her out to potty more frequently. Not sure if that will help or not but it's worth a shot.

TN ~ I get mine from KVvetsupply. 180 tablets 50 mg. for $42.39. If you find it cheaper anywhere, let me know. Thx

Hmm I'll have to check that place out, that's the cheapest yet. Thanks!
BTW, did your girl ever have any side effects from the Proin? I was doing some reading and there were a few articles out there on side effects, and lots of people left comments saying that their dogs had become aggressive, had seizures, gotten sick, etc., after starting them on the drug.

 

TN ~ I get mine from KVvetsupply. 180 tablets 50 mg. for $42.39. If you find it cheaper anywhere, let me know. Thx

 

LOL, we have been changing things up,

Well -- My wheels are turning - - :wink2:

 

No changes in her at all. I read all those reviews, too and it scared me. I first tried the homeopathic route. Parsley, Cornsilk ( I think that is what it was) and Leaks No More. It did nothing, but waste my time.
She is the same girl on Proin, and even better because she was always worried about the leaks and you could tell it bothered her. It always happened when she was relaxed and resting. Really had nothing to do
with how much water she drank or excercise or needing to go outside.
I would not hesitate to try the Proin. If you see a change then you can quit. All dogs as with people are different. There is another one that works, too. Is it distilbestrol? I swear I am getting short term
memory loss.

 

Diethylstilbestrol? Hmm while searching for that, I saw this link too. He's pushing something called Incontia "Incontia - a homeopathic preparation for the treatment of urinary bladder incontinence." Odd though that there was nowhere I could find what the exact ingredients are, which turns me off right away, despite the alleged reviews and his 30 years experience.

We're definitely giving Proin a try; and if it works, yippee! The cleaning is bad enough, but poor Mocha is so embarrassed when it happens, I think she still can't quite believe this is happening to her.

 

Diethylstibesterol....also called DES.

I'm no help...Capri was on Proin at one time and DES at another. One worked, the other didn't, but I don't remember which. I didn't see any behavior changes with either though.

 

I used cornsilk for years with great success and then it stopped working so Coco has been on liquid Proin for the last 2 years with great success. She takes .8 ml a day and it does the trick. She started off at 2 doses a day but I got her down quickly to once a day as I don't like using meds on my raw fed dog.

Like Mocha she was so upset when she leaked. No side effects. Exactly the same girl!

 

I've heard of a few bitches for whom the "natural" remedies worked. Corn silk seemed to work for a short while and then stopped working. In spite of it's name Leaks No More didn't seem to work well at all. Taking bitches off regular kibble that also had grain worked for a few. But all these were in the minority.

What did work was Proin. What also worked was DES. And what worked for bitches who continued to leak on either Proin or on DES was using both.

I don't breed so I don't keep bitches but I know a lot of breeders and owners who do keep bitches and there are a lot of leaky bitches out there. And if you ever wondered if intact bitches ever have this problem (given that it's often referred to as SPAY incontinence)--yeah--some spayed bitches never leak and some intact bitches start leaking before they are ever bred.

 

This is why I love this site. So much experience, knowledge, and great advice.

 

Jada is on raw also. She is spayed and made it to age 5 before leaking. They don't drink so much water on raw as they do when on the dry kibble and I thought the raw would take us thru, but not to be.

We started Proin 50 mg 1 1/2 tabs twice a day. After several months I lowered the dosage to 1 tablet twice daily and have seen no adverse affect, as far as leakage.

 

Once you start dosing her you can eventually experiment and drop her to 1 pill a day. She may be able to maintain leak free status on 1 pill a day. Or not. You will know your girl the best.

Cocos vet was fine with me experimenting because she knows I don't like meds. When I get a refill, she asks me what dose she's on lol.

 

Since starting her on the Proin, no more accidents or leaking, and as you can imagine, I'm watching Mocha like a hawk and so far, no side effects. With her vet's blessing, we also started her on a daily regimen of milk thistle to see if that will help normalize her liver ALT levels and, I don't know if it's a coincidence, but since we started the milk thistle, her dandruff has disappeared, and her stool has gotten darker and a lot more solid (some of you may remember that Mocha has always had an issue with soft stools, going to the Rx food helped a lot where she went from a 2-3 out of 5 to 3-4 but we still didn't get to that "5"). Now she's at what I'd call a 4-4.5 most days. Whatever, I'm happy and I'll take it.

 

Great news!

 

Glad for the update.