I recently spent far more time than should have been necessary explaining how stuffing dogs into crates,brutalizing them and skinning them alive was just cruel! No ifs, no buts, no maybes! I was told I was culturally insensitive,privileged, poor starving folk could make excuses for this to feed their children. My argument is that tortured animals go no further on the plate,and instead of spending time stuffing extra dogs in,grow some vegetables!! Didn't seem controversial to me,but I got a lot of stick. And this was on a working dog forum. So Tobyshuman,is it them or is it us? I will always believe it is us!

 

You surely would have gotten no argument from me on this score. I understand that in some cultures they perceive dogs as nothing more than a food item. Heck I had a Thai friend who once told me, 'black dog taste good, white dog, not so good.' And I understand that many kill dogs for food out of necessity. It is the way they kill them that I find totally abhorent and like you feel it necessary to say as much. There are surely better ways to do it without inflicting suffering. (got told it made the meat more tender, bulltish is all I can say, it does the reverse from what science tells us).
What I cannot understand is how in a supposed 'First World Country' Rodeos pass as entertainment. When I saw the horses legs break in that video, of how it was forced to walk I wanted to be sick.

And where were the animal protection officers when it happened?

Do they actually attend such events and if not, why not, it truly is wrong that any animal be put through such torture much less in the name of entertainment?

 

Bullfighting in Canada - Portuguese Style - YouTube

What the heck, this is in Canada.

This is still tormenting an animal for entertainment no matter if the bull doesnt get killed.

 

That is one sorry excuse for a rodeo, I've never seen a rodeo like that before and I've attended quite a few. I would be surprised if there weren't charges and complaints brought against them, I'd hope so. That one should be shut down.


That being said, I disagree that that example is an excuse to ban or end all rodeos.

Thats like saying since some Dog trainers are abusive pricks, that all dog training venues and professional trainers should be banned.

Or since some Show barns use cruel and unethical practices to gain a competitive edge with their horses, that horse shows should be outlawed.

Or that since animal abuse and irresponsible ownership is so prevalent in all societies, that it (pet ownership) should be outlawed entirely.

They should be regulated, and the laws should be enforced. But its unreasonable to punish all for the actions of a few.

 

Fair points, I guess not all rodeos are like the one in the video, however, I find myself asking, why they are allowed to exist in their current form. You see the more I watch rodeo videos the more I personally find what they are about abhorrent. Now don't get me wrong, some of the riding skills exhibited by some of the riders takes my breath away. But is it necessary to have bucking horses? Yeah, brilliant, the guy can sit to a bucking horse. But why is that horse bucking so violently? Well in my opinion it is bucking because it perceives the man on its back as a predator, ie wild cat. To my mind it is trying to save itself from something it is fearful of. Add to this that a great many horses have a strap around its nether regions (I can see no reason why it is there in relation to the saddle but if I am wrong please, anyone feel free to educate me on this) that surely causes the horse some discomfort and probably adds to its bucking.
What I see is a horse trying desperately to get away from something it is afraid of, which to my mind should not be being portrayed or perpertrated as entertainment in anyones book.
But maybe that is just me.
Then there is the bull riding? Bulls as far as I know were never really ridden that much, maybe a few oxon were put under the saddle in days gone by but not so many as it became as prevalent as horseriding. And even if it were, I do not believe it was this kind of bull that was used. so why do people ride bulls and exhalt in the fact that these animals are leaping around in a potentially dangerous way, not just to the rider but more importantly to themselves. A rider chose to sit on its back, I doubt very much the bull ever signed up for it and thinks 'gee this is so much fun'. Or maybe some of you know that they do. Love to hear from you as I really do wish to understand what is going on in these events.

I do not dispute it takes skill to stay on top of any animal bucking, leaping, rearing, fish tailing, you truly do not have any argument from me on that one. But then it takes skill to stay on top of a mechanical bull from what I have seen and other than to titillate the crowd what purpose does it truly serve when it can be shown whilst using said artificial means.
It is not as some might say to break (I do so hate that term) a horse to accept a rider. From what I understand some horses and bulls become well known for their bucking and leaping and have their own following and are given fantastical names that bring forth cheers of excitement from the crowds.

Now the video I chose may be a bad one amidst thousands of good ones. But the fact that this ever happened and can be found alongside dozens of other videos showing similar instances on YOU TUBE I find myself wondering, 'is it so rare an occurence as one might hope'. Well the half dozen below the one I showed that jump out at me say it isn't, but then, I do not know how many rodeos are held in the US or other countries per year so maybe the odd one here and there is considered unfortunate but not indicative of the whole.

Thing is, if one animal suffers to my mind that is one animal too many.

Oh and if memory serves me right, a rodeo came to the UK way back when and was promptly shut down on grounds of it being construed as animal abuse/cruelty before it even had a chance of touring as was the plan, now maybe that was just another case of a badly run/organised event who knows, it happened long before I was born.

 

What do you deem to be cruel?



doing anything that is injurious to another's body or soul.

 

I find the concept of many things to be cruel. The transportation of animals vast distances in sweltering, freezing conditions with no food or water, made to stand, fight for position in overcrowded lorries so they can be taken to a place where they can be slaughtered, this to me is cruel. Then there are such instances as this Rodeo that I think is cruel, bullfighting, bear baiting, dog fighting, cock fighting, hare coursing the list could go on and I will happily put them down in print if so asked.

I accept people eat meat, heck I love a good steak alongside the next meat eater, but there are ways and ways to get that steak. I am sure Darkevs that you try to rear your animals in as humane a way as possible, that when their time has come you try to ensure their passing is done in as humane a way as possible, I know I do. But when it comes to such things as that poor horse struggling to walk with its legs so badly broken as to warrant it being shot there and then by a licenced professional I start to wonder if we as a supposed superior lifeform have any right to call ourselves such. I also start to wonder if we as that supposed superior lifeform have a screw loose when we sit and watch a bull being taunted and subjected to such injustice in the name of entertainment.

Maybe I am becoming too soft in my old age, but honestly, what is cruel and what is not, because for the life of me, what I saw on that and a couple of other videos is just so cruel as to make my heart hurt.

Where or where are the people in the world that are paid to protect animals rights at such events? I know if I had been there, my voice may have been the only one shouting it down, but you can bet you would have heard it, one way or another.

 

I couldn't even watch the video, or click on it. Especially if horses are involved, or any animal, it'll just enrage me or make me want to cry.

I'll never forget being at a Derby type race in Kentucky (don't remember which one, wasn't the Derby, but it was a couple weeks prior). I was petting a horse, which turned out being the second place winner. The guy said, "Don't pet that horse or be nice to it. It got second place!" He was serious too. I was just a kid, but was all geared out in my tack from a show I had myself at the venue, and it looked like I knew what I was doing, not just being an annoying kid. The way he was treating his horse, and others were treating their horses who didn't win, was disgusting. Ever since I saw that, if I ever have the money one day, I'll open a stable for retired race horses with a ton of land. These horse are retired so young (sometimes 6 or 7), or put down when they no longer "produce." It's disgusts me to no end.

 

I don't know the stats to say if my impression is true, but I have seen many more race horses, pampered as their lives seem to be, broken down in a race and shot, or retired early because of injuries, than I have seen rodeo horses injured in action.

You could almost argue that making an animal behave in any way that is not natural to him is cruelty (Why ride horses at all? Just keep them out in pasture happily munching all their lives). It starts to sound PETA-ish almost--there is a difference between their beliefs (Keeping any animal as a pet is cruel) and those of knowledgeable animal lovers, but I don't know where the boundary is.

 

I support the ethical treatment of animals, this in my opinion does not make me or anyone else that follows such a creed a paid up member of PETA, heck, they do more harm than good in a great many cases in my opinion.

However, if someone said, 'tomorrow will see all sports involving the torment of animals banned' I doubt even the staunchest of anti-peta people would complain. Well not those I know that is for sure.

I have pets, I have 3 dogs. I readily admit my farm animals are not pets, but you can bet your last dollar that if you were to visit me and see them you would have to say they are all treat with respect and empathy and live in clean, comfortable conditions. Followed by when the time comes that they are to be slaughtered it is done here, at home where I can be sure it is done compassionately and with dignity.
I eat meat, I enjoy eating meat, I also enjoy eating veggies but if one listens to some scientists even the humble tomato experiences sensation when taken from the vine. Do they? I don't know, I have never heard or seen a tomato scream or wince in pain. Neither have I seen a lettuce struggling to walk on broken legs. Jesus H, if that had been a man, paramedics would have been all over him. But what the heck, it is only a dumb animal, well in my case I would rather have that dumb animal than many a humanbeing in my company especially those who think what happened at that rodeo is okay.

I am not saying any of you would say it was okay, I think most of you hate cruelty as much as I and like as not alongside of me would voice your objections if given the chance.

But do we ever truly get the chance.

Rodeos, bullfighting are big earners for a great many people and those people oil the wheels of power so that they can continue doing what they want, when they want, pretty much to who they want as long as the who is an animal it would seem.

You know, I reckon Michael Vick would have felt right at home in Oklahoma State Penatentiary, cruelty being his thing and all.

By the way, I so agree that horse racing and greyhound racing should clean up their act. It is one thing to have a racehorse win but when they don't they are often discarded like yesterdays newspapers and the devil take them for all the owners/trainers care. I personally rescued 4 racehorses in my time. They all ended up being fantastic animals one way or another, in the case of one he was so screwed up by what had happened to him as a youngster we had to retire him aged all of 6 to live out his life as a companion. I spent thousands of pounds on each of those animals, not only to save them from being shot but in veterinary care so that they could enjoy running around the fields with my other horses. And you know what, it was money well spent. Well I think so.

 

Whoa. That is the most infuriating heinous video on so many levels.

I have NEVER seen bulls and horses all sent into an arena together.

This occurred at a UNITED STATES PRISON THAT IS FEDERALLY FUNDED?

I am dumbfounded why this is not National news?

America loves their animal stories. Look at the national media attention that was given to the wonderfully cute elderly lady in the OK tornado who found her little schnauzer dog.

I am not computer saavy, but why hasn't this video been forwarded to:
the OK Governor?

You better bet that the OK public would be in an uproar; the news media?; national TV?; whoever is in charge of prison administrators?- everyone has a boss.

The flagrant deliberate disregard for decency by releasing all those large animals out at one time is criminal.

The lack of compassion for that helpless horse with broken legs demonstrates that not one of the guards and/or prisoners is capable of providing and/or obtaining any form of rehabilitation.

Oh, and it happened at a federally funded PRISON? WTF.

:judge:

 

Anyone know the email address of the Oklahoma State Governor, or how one might find out what it is, alongside prison adminitrators etc, etc?

I think I could manage to send it along with a stiffly worded missive to stir up a few hornets.

 

Here ya go: https://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/formbuilder/form.php?form_id=2ab143b4bba6b0e9da3235121bf3a7ef73719541e049cc5bcddf8ed1564dac13

The Office of Governor Mary Fallin
Oklahoma State Capitol
2300 N. Lincoln Blvd., Room 212
Oklahoma City, OK 73105

Local: (405) 521-2342
Fax: (405) 521-3353


Tulsa Office of Governor Mary Fallin
440 S. Houston Ave., Suite 304
Tulsa, Oklahoma 74127

Phone (918) 581-2801
Fax (918) 581-2835

I bet she's pretty tied up with weather related problems, but it never hurts to try!

 

Vegetables with feelings?

I remember reading that oak trees produce more tannin in their leaves to defend against an attack by caterpillars.

Apparently they have measured tannin levels in a grove of oak trees and found that even oaks on the opposite side of the grove from oaks under attack start producing more tannins.

Communication?

My sister who had a daughter going through a militant vegan stage told me not to DARE tell her child about this finding, or the daughter wouldn't eat ANYTHING.

 

Here is a start.

newsdesk@news9.net

It is OK Channel 9 news who is very interested in receiving this video and comments.

Their phone 405-841-9921.

Thanks.

 

Email containing clips of the rodeo have just now been sent. I hope it will have some positive effect.

Guys, I am not a party pooper. I just do not like to see unnecessary suffering being perpertrated on innocent animals by anyone and whilever I have a voice I feel it is my job to make some noise and if I can change a few folks perspectives on this matter then I will shout from the highest roof tops, I hope you will join in.

 

"What do I consider cruel"

If I had a nickle for every time someone told me I'm cruel because my cat does not go outside, or because I keep snakes, or because I feed them a predator-appropriete diet... I would be very rich.

I would define cruel as something that causes meaningless bodily or emotional harm onto another person or thing. It's one thing to participate in a sport (and trust me, human sports come with their own injury lists) and another thing to actively hurt an animal "in the name of" sport- eg: dog/bull fighting, or some rodeo events.

I don't know why people can't see the difference.

 

I'll admit I did something I rarely do--skipped reading the posts, and only tolerated the first few seconds of that video.

Someone pointed me to this thread, asking if I thought it was cruel.

YUP.

You ought to look up the Omak Suicide Race.

Or look at some of the Romany events in the UK.

And so on and so forth. It never ends, and some days I just can't take even a small dose of it.

Sorry, but that's all I've got for ya right now--yes, it's stupid and cruel. The two so often go together.

 

Oh do not get me started on the Romany's in the UK or as they should properly be known the Gypy's (there is a difference).
In the past my friends and I (before I left UK) would make an annual pilgrimage to Appleby Fair and would end up more often than not in scuffles with gypsy's abusing horses.
The RSPCA and the Police attend the fairs each and every year and stop the races and the subsequent cruelty taking place. But by dint of who they are they are easily spotted, mainly because they wear uniforms and because they are easily spotted the gypsy's are more often than not found talking in groups as opposed to racing because they have had spotters watching out for the authorities. However, what they cannot watch out for are the dozens of ordinary people who attend the fairs, milling with the crowd who are hell bent as we were on stopping the spectacle of horses being trotted at break neck speeds down the roads whilst being whipped into a frenzy.
I have lost count the number of times I have acted as a witness in courts as to the abuse I have not only seen but documented on camera. Yep it was dangerous at times, it got particularly dodgy when we spotted a stolen horse in amongst the thousands and we filmed not only the guys who brought it to the fair but the guys who bought it. All received fines and the horse bless it was returned to its owner thanks to the actions of the group I was involved in.
Now I have heard a great deal when dealing with Gypsy's the word tradition being bandied about. In fact it is often hidden behind when it comes to doing something barbaric, inhumane, cruel. Well I am sorry but such doesn't wear with me. Long ago we used to do a great many things that were barbaric, inhumane, cruel but as we have evolved so has our sense of right and wrong. (or at least I hope it has) So when someone tells me, 'we have done this for centuries, it is part of our tradition I tell them. 'If you like living so much in the 12th century I suggest you try building yourself a time machine and go back and live in it, because chum this is the 21st century and we have evolved.'

Now years ago maybe that Rodeo wouldn't have even raised an eyebrow amonst you or I, maybe we would have simply shrugged and walked on by. But not now, not today.
When I perceive cruelty I will try and stop it, in whatever way I can. I personally have got into a stand up fight with men far bigger than me because they kicked a foal as it tried to get back to its mothers side, (it had been sold to one person whilst the mother was sold to another). My children have waded in to stop gypsy children climbing onto a donkeys back in an effort to see how many it would take before the donkey collapsed under the weight. We have been threatened, pushed, and punched in the past, but you know what, I still went in there and did it because those poor animals couldnt do it for themselves and even though I told my children to stay back they went in too. (both were teenagers at this point).

Now I understand how upsetting that video was to watch and I fully understand how a great many of you probably watched the first few minutes and turned it off too sickened to continue watching if you could watch any of it at all.

All I ask is that none of you turn away when it comes to trying to stop it.

Yes we all get so tired of it all, how no matter how much effort we put into something it seems to not make a difference. But you know, if we do not keep on trying, nothing will ever change.

By the way, just because I chose the rodeo video to show you does not mean I think cruelty is the pervue of the US. It exists all over the world, from the UK to Spain, to China to Canada from Argentina to Russia. It is international so perhaps it needs to become an international affair that we try to stop it.

As for the OMAK SUICIDE RACE, sweet jesus in a handbasket, what sick minds think this is a great way to test a horse. Now personally the riders who take part can all end up in wheelchairs breathing through tubes for all I care. Not very humane of me I know, but I long ago stopped caring about people when they choose to put themselves in such danger for no other reason save glory, fame and maybe a few dollars, euros or yen. Fact is they choose to enter this race and deserve all they get because of. Now this is just my opinion I do not expect anyone else to hold with it whatsoever and if you wish to think ill of me for expressing it then so be it, however. I feel I must point out a horse would never, ever run down a steep hill in the dead of night unless its life depended upon it. Their very nature is to avoid anything that could cause it injury and therefore leave it prone to predators. So what they are doing is not in a horses nature and neither is it based in Native American Tradition. It is simply down to people being insensitive jerks who have no self esteem surely and therefore seek to gain some in the eyes of others by taking part in so dangerous event.

Yea gods where are your police, where are your animal rights lobbyists, where are your animal protection officers when this is being done?

I am afraid the more I see of the US the more I realise the failings within your system to protect those who cannot protect themselves. I cannot for the life of me think the RSPCA would allow this to happen and neither would the British Public. I am not saying we are better, hell no, we have our failings, but when we see something so heinous as to cause such injury we tend to kick up such a fuss it is changed.
The Grand National almost got banned because of its dangerous jumps. For a long time those who organised it hid behind the excuse of tradition. Public outcry and animal protection groups lobbying eventually won out and the jumps were made smaller and safer, however, for some including me this is not enough. I personally will not rest until that race is banned all together in the shape and form it takes today.

 

I have just sent an email to the Oklahoma Governors office, suprisingly it didnt allow me to do it if I was outside of the US so I cheated and put a state that was in the US as part of my address. However, I have specifically stated I am not a US citizen or that I am in the US but rather live outside and hail from elsewhere. Let us see if we have a response.

Speaking of responses, have you heard that many rodeos are now banning cameras, stating that it is due to the Boston Marathon Bombings.

SHARK Challenge to Reno Rodeo - Cowboy Up!!!! - YouTube

I learnt about this from of course YOU TUBE from an organisation called SHARK. Now before anyone starts ranting they are PETA or the like I cannot help but agree with these people that the banning of cameras is not to do with public safety but rather it is to do with hiding the cruelty a camera can document so well.

I would love to hear what you guys think on this score.

 

While I don’t agree with A LOT of what goes on at Rodeo events, it should be pointed out that the video posted by the OP from Spain, is a product of the extreme animal rights group SHARK which is connected at the hip with PETA. The ultimate goal of groups like HSUS, PETA, and SHARK are to eliminate all private ownership, use and breeding of animals.

While I take offense at some of the things that go on at Rodeo events and have even done some lobbying again certain events, I also take offense at someone falsely attaching a US State into the email addressed to the governor of Oklahoma when they actually reside in a foreign country and are NOT even a US citizen.

From post #22 of this thread:

have just sent an email to the Oklahoma Governors office, suprisingly it didnt allow me to do it if I was outside of the US so I cheated and put a state that was in the US as part of my address. However, I have specifically stated I am not a US citizen or that I am in the US but rather live outside and hail from elsewhere. Let us see if we have a response.

For the OP’s information the governor of Oklahoma was elected by the people of Oklahoma to serve them, as well as uphold the laws of the United States and the US Constitution, thus the reason for incoming emails to be from someone actually living in the United States and having an actual stake in the matter. Furthermore, right now there are thousands of people in the state of Oklahoma displaced by recent weather events that legitimately might need the assistance of the state and just might be trying to communicate their needs with emails to the governor!

You have every right to disagree and have an opinion with what might go on in a particular state in the United States and even boycott the state and the products form the state if you so desire; however, it is wrong to be deceptive (even a little bit) to the fact you are not a US citizen and don’t even reside in this country! This is a matter for the people of Oklahoma and other individual states to decide.

 

While I don’t agree with A LOT of what goes on at Rodeo events, it should be pointed out that the video posted by the OP from Spain, is a product of the extreme animal rights group SHARK which is connected at the hip with PETA. The ultimate goal of groups like HSUS, PETA, and SHARK are to eliminate all private ownership, use and breeding of animals.


In all of the videos that I have seen posted by SHARK I have seen no evidence that they are a PETA offshoot or are in cahoots with them or indeed joined at the hip. Even if they were/are the fact that they have brought this to light should not be dismissed simply because of association. If that were the case your President wouldnt have gotten elected seeing as his father or whomever was a muslim and we all know how heinous they are. (sarcasm). Sorry but I fear you missed the point I was trying to make when I posted this thread. I deem what I saw in that video to be cruel, I have said as much. Now the fact that it took a radical group whose agenda may be to one day stop us from owning animals as pets or the like is beside the point. What the video strove to do and in fact succeeded in doing was to highlight cruelty being labelled as so called entertainment wrapped in tradition slash culture. Not only did it highlight the cruelty but in the instance I chose to post it is clear that this event takes place at correctional facility where I do not doubt some less than stellar citizens of the US reside courtesy of your justice system. Now take from this what you will, be it animal abuse or the fact that cons are getting to commit it in the name of entertainment/rehabilitation or whatever. The point is and to my mind this should be the only point open to discussion is that a horse injured in the rodeo they proudly advertise as an annual event had broken legs and was forced up and made to walk out of the arena. How many other animals have suffered in this way in this badly run affair. Well if you watch the precedent and subsequent videos far too many for it to be a 'one off'.
Now if it takes someone like SHARK to bring this sort of thing out in the open then I for one think in this instance they should be lauded not condemned. So what if their bed fellows are not to your liking or indeed mine, without the likes of SHARK would you have known about the Oklahoma State Penitentiary Annual Rodeo and of that poor horses agony. I doubt it, I only came across the video by accident when I clicked on a link that led to another and so on.

While I take offense at some of the things that go on at Rodeo events and have even done some lobbying again certain events, I also take offense at someone falsely attaching a US State into the email addressed to the governor of Oklahoma when they actually reside in a foreign country and are NOT even a US citizen.

So because it doesnt give me the option to say I am a foreigner in one small box (drop down) on the email form I should not be allowed to contact the Governor of this state?
The so called dishonesty you take exception too was not done maliciously nor was it intended to deceive the Governor. Rather it was done out of expediency for without that little drop down box being filled in it would not allow me to send an email to the office of the Governor no matter how hard I tried. In the end I chose AA, though for the life of me I haven't a clue where AA is but I am sure someone on this forum will be kind enough to tell me.
I clearly stated in both the address section I was/am contacting them from outside not only Oklahoma but also the US. I also clearly stated in the correspondance box I am not in the US or a citizen of your country.
What I would like to ask is....
What the hell does my nationality or residency have to do with making a complaint? Am I to assume only US citizens can complain about things that go on in your country? Am I to assume if my name is not in your little book of chums I cannot try to right injustice. If that is the case would you care to refund me the money I sent towards the care of a Dobe found in such a horrific state as to need thousands of dollars spending on its medical bills, or the money I sent across when 9/11 happened. Bet you won't. That is of course different. But how so? How can one thing be okay, but not another. If I see cruelty no matter where it is, do I not have a voice, can I not make it heard simply because my passport is red and yours is blue?
Shame if that is the case RobinB.
Does not your constitution allow for free speech, or is that reserved only for US citizens. If it is would you kindly scrub my name from the 9/11 condolence book I signed in your embassy here in Spain as it obviously was not my place to sign it. Oh and whilst we are at it, you might want to tell your deity to disregard my prayers for all those who have lost a loved one because I obviously have no place to say anything to them because I am not a US citizen.

From post #22 of this thread:

have just sent an email to the Oklahoma Governors office, suprisingly it didnt allow me to do it if I was outside of the US so I cheated and put a state that was in the US as part of my address. However, I have specifically stated I am not a US citizen or that I am in the US but rather live outside and hail from elsewhere. Let us see if we have a response.

Bold, underscored and coloured in blue my post which says it all.

For the OP’s information the governor of Oklahoma was elected by the people of Oklahoma to serve them, as well as uphold the laws of the United States and the US Constitution, thus the reason for incoming emails to be from someone actually living in the United States and having an actual stake in the matter.

Ah, so because I am not American, because I am not from Oklahoma I cannot ask if the Governor is aware that this rodeo is going on and that abuse of this kind is happening in her fair state

Furthermore, right now there are thousands of people in the state of Oklahoma displaced by recent weather events that legitimately might need the assistance of the state and just might be trying to communicate their needs with emails to the governor!

It specifically states if you need urgent assistance etc you can call them, I hardly think my one email is going to cause a disaster but if you think it is, then wow, I truly did not know I had so much power.

You have every right to disagree and have an opinion with what might go on in a particular state in the United States and even boycott the state and the products form the state if you so desire; however, it is wrong to be deceptive (even a little bit) to the fact you are not a US citizen never said I was, in fact specifically said I wasn't so this argument is surely mootand don’t even reside in this country! So I take it I must live in the US to comment on what happens in the US, okay, make sure you get the right entry in that condolence book and scrub it out good won't you, hate to upset the xenophobes amongst your number.
This is a matter for the people of Oklahoma If any person hailing from this state wishes to look into, comment on this matter they are more than welcome to do so.
and other individual states to decide.Oh so someone in California can complain and clog up the emails of the OK Governor, just not me. Okay, got it, won't happen again.

Dear friends, I wish to apologise if you deem my response to RobinB's post is somewhat over the top. But fact is, I do so hate it when someone tells me, 'you are a foreigner, you have no right to speak, shut the hell up'. I get that here and to be honest it has worn so thin of late I have decided I really do not care if someone thinks I have no right to speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves. I am going to do it and do it as loud as I can, where I can, when I can and the devil take those who don't like it.
Now it might be I have over-reacted and if this is so, I again apologise. I merely asked the Governor if she knew this rodeo was being held in not only her State but in one of her correctional facilities and if there was something she could do to stop animals suffering such cruel abuse ias is seen on the videos posted initially by SHARK and forwarded to her by me.

 

Talk about over reacting! Where did I tell you to “shut the hell up” in my post? Would you please quote that!

Lying or falsification is never okay! For instance if one is caught lying in a court of law regarding even on a trivial non consequential matter, then all of that persons testimony has to be automatically disregarded. It’s a matter of integrity and credibility.

Per your own post you falsified information on where you were from in order to hopefully get an email read.

What is regulated banned, or whatever, in the confines of the United States is not for you to decide. Just like it would be wrong for me to try to influence an issue in Spain by pretending to be from Spain in order to get my message heard or read.

 

So would it be bad for me to attempt to get a hold of local governments in other countries to help end human trafficking? I don't think it would be. If it is an issue that you are passionate about the join the fight. Support can come from anywhere, it doesn't just stop a border.

You know other countries helped us (and we helped others) with wars right? You know they didn't have to? But feeling the same as we did, they assisted.

What about people who have left their native land? Are they no longer able to join a cause there because they don't live there? Hmmm that doesn't seem right either but that's the your mentality I'm picking up.

Just my humble opinion on the matter.


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Talk about over reacting! Where did I tell you to “shut the hell up” in my post? Would you please quote that!

If you read my response I said 'I get that here', the here being Spain. I also said in the same sentence, 'you are a foreigner' which is surely what you were meaning when you bolded the word NOT followed by 'a US citizen' in your post.

Lying or falsification is never okay! For instance if one is caught lying in a court of law regarding even on a trivial non consequential matter, then all of that persons testimony has to be automatically disregarded. It’s a matter of integrity and credibility.

Really, wow I didn't know that. All the years I studied law I never saw that mentioned anywhere. Thank you for pointing it out to me.

I will again reiterate.

I specifically said I was living outside of the US and that I was in fact not a US citizen. How many times do I have to say this.
Followed by how many times do I have to say I merely enquired if the Governor of Oklahoma knew of this rodeo and of its appauling record with regards cruelty to the animals used.
If you would like to go onto the site you will see that in order to send a message to the office of the Governor for the State of Oklahoma there is a drop down box requiring you cite which state you are in. You will also notice there is a red asterix beside that box which means it is not optional but rather obligatory. I searched everywhere for the email address of the Governor so that I didnt have to use that form, but guess what, I couldnt find it. So I simply ticked the first group of letters AA and then made sure that my address which is here in Spain was bolded so that no one was left in any doubt I was contacting them from outside the US.

Per your own post you falsified information on where you were from in order to hopefully get an email read.

I doubt very much that, that little box determines if an email is read or it isn't.

What is regulated banned, or whatever, in the confines of the United States is not for you to decide.

Nope it is for your elected officials, I merely asked the Governor of Oklahoma if she knew of the rodeo and its appauling record regards the treatment of animals.

Just like it would be wrong for me to try to influence an issue in Spain by pretending to be from Spain in order to get my message heard or read.

Not trying to influence anyone to do anything, just asking a simple question.

 

I used to love rodeos, but don't attend too many anymore. At CFD, they have steer tripping (which is not at many rodeos) and I hate it. Maybe in the "bush" they would have to do this. A friend that helped me after H got killed, doctored calves by himself.
He would rope the calf, let that calf walk out ahead, and then picked up the back feet with a second loop. Calf would drop. Get off horse and dr calf, take ropes off and calf goes back to herd. Yes the stress from the 1st loop would be the most. But that sure beat driving a cow/calf 3 miles to a chute. I have never seen anyone else do that. I am still impressed. Won't condone bull fighting. I do think it's cruel. Along with dog fighting, cock fighting etc.

 

I am totally with Tobyshuman on this. Who cares where you live or how you do it if you are exposing cruelty. If you would allow something as trivial as technically getting round a problem,stop you from doing something ,then you really are allowing it to happen. I find it really strange that someone is defending cruelty,by default, on an animal forum,do they not see the irony?
I can never remember the exact quote about for bad things to happen you only need a few good people to say or do nothing. Cruelty needs to be exposed by whoever or whatever,it is none the less cruel if it is exposed by PETA ,it hurts the dog just as much to be abused in China or the horse in the USA. To me there is no excuse for cruelty and no excuse for not trying to stop it.

 

there is a rodeo farm about 5 minutes from my house. I can tell you that they treat those horses better than some people treat their children.
Of course, a good bucking horse can sell for $10,000. Or a lifetime of stud fees which equals a lot more so why would they risk doing ANYTHING that would lose them that golden egg?
Some small outfits? Yes, they skirt the edge to try to get by on the cheap. They will take any horse bought for cheap out of the classifieds and torture it to make it buck. Much like the "dog trainers" who teach a dog to "guard" by making it afraid of every person it sees. A true professional rodeo? You might get a couple bad apples who work there but they don't last long. It's like any other business - you have good places and bad places.

I wouldn't put much stock into a video that was "gathered" by PETA. The majority of their time tends to be spent editing together out-of-context clips to create a horrible tragedy out of minor incidents. For instance, they could make a huge video out of SCH training with snap shots of dogs in crates in vans (waiting for their turn on the field), voice over saying "these poor dogs were left in the hot car while their owners learn how to make their dog attack other people". Close up of a prong collar and leash "these cruel collars digging into their sensitive skin until they lash out at what they think is causing their pain". Cue the video clip of the helper "beating" the dog. You get the idea.
Yes, the bad places need to be stopped but there are already laws in place to prevent that cruelty. Get your local AC, police, whomever to step up and enforce those laws and drive the bad places out of business. But don't paint an entire industry with that same brush.

 

there is a rodeo farm about 5 minutes from my house. I can tell you that they treat those horses better than some people treat their children.
Of course, a good bucking horse can sell for $10,000. Or a lifetime of stud fees which equals a lot more so why would they risk doing ANYTHING that would lose them that golden egg?
Some small outfits? Yes, they skirt the edge to try to get by on the cheap. They will take any horse bought for cheap out of the classifieds and torture it to make it buck. Much like the "dog trainers" who teach a dog to "guard" by making it afraid of every person it sees. A true professional rodeo? You might get a couple bad apples who work there but they don't last long. It's like any other business - you have good places and bad places.

As I do not know of the outfit you are speaking of I cannot comment on whether or not they treat their horses better than some folk treat their children. However, what I can comment on is the people in the video who broke that horses legs, forced it to stand, walk out of the arena, left it to stand in a concrete yard are vile, hideous excuses for humanity and should be punished for what they did.

I wouldn't put much stock into a video that was "gathered" by PETA. The majority of their time tends to be spent editing together out-of-context clips to create a horrible tragedy out of minor incidents. For instance, they could make a huge video out of SCH training with snap shots of dogs in crates in vans (waiting for their turn on the field), voice over saying "these poor dogs were left in the hot car while their owners learn how to make their dog attack other people". Close up of a prong collar and leash "these cruel collars digging into their sensitive skin until they lash out at what they think is causing their pain". Cue the video clip of the helper "beating" the dog. You get the idea.

I do indeed, however, if this video was put together using clips it still portrays an animal having its legs broken, made to walk, stand on those same legs, something you wouldn't allow to happen if it were a human in that horses place

Yes, the bad places need to be stopped but there are already laws in place to prevent that cruelty.

There may be laws in place, but as to who enforces them, well in the case of the video of the Rodeo I think they were asleep during the whole event.

Get your local AC, police, whomever to step up and enforce those laws and drive the bad places out of business.

Apparently according to some because I am not a US citizen I am not entitled to do this. However, if I had the relevant animal control officers email details you can bet I will be asking what they did to the organisers and the people who actually made that poor horse stand, walk on broken legs

But don't paint an entire industry with that same brush.

The shame of it is, if you go on YOU TUBE you will see dozens of different Rodeos all around the country abusing animals in the name of entertainment. So whilst there may be good rodeos out there, the bad seem to outweigh them in number when it comes to the internet.

By the way, I just want to say, I am not singling rodeos out when it comes to cruelty issues, I absolutely detest and deplore bullfighting and have made my voice heard regards this issue on many occasions. Just thought I let you all know this.

 

I don't think anyone is deriding the entire rodeo world,although I would like to see how they train the horses to buck without the strap and what bloodlines do it to order. Could they exhibit this behaviour anywhere? Is the bucking situational? I can't see what is controversial about saying it is cruel to make a horse with a broken leg walk anywhere,when that animal is being used for entertainment.

 

I feel about animals the way Leonardo Da Vinci felt:

"I have from an early age abjured the use of meat, and the time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of animals as they now look upon the murder of men."

Same goes for hunting, breeding for profit, abusing, experimenting, etc etc.

 

There is plenty of ugliness in the rodeo world.

I won't click on the video, I don't need to see that kind of crap, but from how it's described, it's likely a Charro, which are Mexican rodeos that tend to be extremely brutal and indifferent to the suffering of animals, if not relishing the cruelty. They are often underground, on a par with dogfighting in the USA, but that doesn't mean they don't happen.

 

One of the most gruesome practices of the Charro rodeo events is horse tripping. I think 14 state legislatures have now banned the practice; I’ve actually worked the issue in several states with a group of fellow concerned Arabian enthusiasts and breeders. However, you are correct that it still exists underground in many rural areas, even in states which have banned the practice.

There was a case in the last couple of years where an Arabian breeder, with money BTW to do the right thing and grow and train these babies out, culled the yearlings at a sale and they unfortunately were picked- up by Charro trip buyers and never found. The breeders have a role in this mess as well. If you are ever going to produce a horse then you had better be prepared to take care of that horse forever if necessary or put the big boy pants on a do a humane euth if the horse can’t be placed in a suitable home.

 

I do agree that there are some rodeos out there which do messed up stuff. There are also a good deal of rodeos which are tightly run ships. I think the main takeaway here is that the sport of rodeo is not inherently bad. Some people are inherently bad. That goes as much for bad people in rodeo as it does for bad people in dog breeding or bad people in pro football, or boxing or whatever.

Some of whats done in horse racing is terribly wrong and harmful to the horses and I totally object to it. For that matter though, the abuses, pressures and overall environment the human riders are subjected to is equally abhorrent. (There was a great documentary released on the culture of anorexia associated with the desire for small riders. A similar one on children employed as camel race jockeys in the middle east was just tragic)

Now I definitely cannot go so far as to say that animals should never be killed for out benefit. Some animals consume other animals. That's the way of life. I won't apologize for man's place in the food chain. I draw a firm line between using animals and killing for sport or pleasure. (Hunting I am ok with, if you actually use what you take. Many states have laws to that extent actually)

For the record, for a short period, I actually worked on a farm for retired thoroughbreds. Most were in great condition but there were one or two that did have some obvious race related injuries.