Dogs don't tend to "grow out of stuff", they just learn slowly if you don't teach them right. What training methods are you familiar with, and how often do you train? What kind of mental stimulation does your dog get? What exactly do you do if she doesn't listen to a command you know she understands?

 

I've always been told that eventually the bad behavior stops. Though im not holding that claim to its word.

Anyways as far as "training methods" I am not sure, I've just basically been working on whatever basic commands we have been working on in school, as well as loose leash walking, heel, etc. Ironically when i take her for a walk or i'm doing anything by herself shes typically better behaved. Once she gets around other dogs it gets worse. Training typically happens once or twice a day for about 10 minutes each time, I use stinky treats or a lickety stick as a reward system when she performs the command. As far as mental stimulation, you mean? The dog is regarded as a family member, not an animal, not kept outdoors or anything. so as far as stimulation I am not quite sure how to answer that. shes praised, played with and plays with two other dogs if shes not listening i make sure i've regained eye contact and try again, or for discipline i use a spray bottle.

 

Thank you,

and yes, i need to research ways of training. our trainer said at one point that some of her defiant behavior may be a phase. and over time its gotten better. shes not getting worse by any means. However its one of those things to where, even though i understand she is a working breed and must be doing SOMETHING at all times or else. its hard to find out exactly what i need to do. Most of the time shes trying to unravel a large retreiver roll. it is one of her projects that i know i can get her to do.

As far as potty training. she doesnt jump at the door or scratch thankfully. she just begins pacing around to let me know she has to go. Ususally shes very well about this. perhaps with more stimulation she wont "revenge pee" on the floor. (just a guess) As far as her digging up my back yard. There are a few methods i will have to try, fortunately for me i will have a majority of it blocked off while im fertilizing/seeding this year.

What training methods do you suggest?

 

I like to use positive reinforcement, negative punishment, behavior markers, luring, and free-shaping. When and how I use them depends on the individual dog. I strongly believe that there is no "one size fits all" for training, and that the better trainers will adapt their strategies based on the dog. My dog, negative punishment (taking something away) goes a long way, as she is drivey, and really wants the toy. Take away a toy once or twice, and she's going to get the point quick. Some dogs, you try negative punishment, and they could care less. It all really depends on the dog. I would recommend reading up on a variety of methods, see what sound s the best to you and your dog and go from there.

I never bought into the "phase" kind of thing, I always felt like basically that means "I don't know". "It's just a phase" means "I'm not sure how to fix the issue, hopefully it passes". It definitely takes work, and can be confusing, but at lesat learning the basics will give you a tremendous benefit.

 

This is soemthing eyeopening. i believe t he current method im using involves luring (using treats to accomplish the task as a reward) or i could be wrong. As far as that goes, this could be the reason for defiance. is that she does not really buy into it. She knows shes going to get the treat one way or another so shes making ME work for it. negative punishment may work. seeing as my lab/chihuhahua just took her toy away from her and she chased right after it. as far as the phase thing. it was probably just a guess as to why she was acting up that day. she was absolutely horrible. part of that might have been that it was her first day using a gentle leader. it hasnt been to that magnitude since. however i'll read up on the above and see what works!

 

If you trainer has you lure more than 5-6 times you dog may learn to only work for food. It becomes a bribe vs a reward. So far I have not found a dog that doesn't respond to positive techniques used properly.

Dogs don't revenge pee. They need to go and we miss the signs usually.

She should not be allowed to keep bothering the dogs until they give in. That isn't fair. Show her what you want. If she can't behave, I give my puppies 3 times and then they are crated or tethered to me if they can't play nice with the other dogs and not be obnoxious.

None of my puppies are left in my yard unsupervised. Digging is one of the hardest things to fix once they stop. The key is management.

 

You have two very good people responding to this and I find what they say is truth.

When you see a well behaved doberman, you see a dog that has had alot of time put into training. Kevin couldnt be more right about one method of training works for one dog but not so well on another. You read, you try, you read some more. The same goes for trainers, find another if the current trainers methods are not working.

Young dobermans can be alot like a 9 year old boy. They always have to be doing something, and easily move from one thought to the next. I found out the best thing to teach a 6 month doberman is that it ok to just relax and be a dog. Long down stays eventually give that to them.

Maturity does play a part, but a good solid foundation of training goes a long way. Raising a doberman is not a 10 minute here and 10 minute there kind of thing. The first year or two its pretty much all the time lessons. Even when you are playing there are lessons to learn.

Good Luck, and keep coming back for advice from people who have been there!

 

Absolutely. Shes been getting better with repetition. Ironically. I let someone else handle the reigns for a second. try out some commands with her. Nailed it every time. Not a trainer just a peer. This threw me off. I am starting to believe she gets defiant with me sometimes because she knows she can get away with it. (maybe im a giant pushover) she's been alot better since i've been a bit firmer with her, as far as peeing in the house, well that hasnt happened since that one time.

The selfish "i want all the toys from the other dogs" thing is getting better as well. she can be stubborn but we've been crating her when it gets out of hand.

Last stop digging. That part i might be on my own with. I have a few things i'd like to try first. I've read around these parts filling the holes with poop works. other times squirrel repellant.

As far as luring goes, she doesnt need to be lured 5-6 times to obey a command. occasionally its 3 times at the most. but usually she gets it on the first try.

 

It sounds alot like consistancy from the owner is part of the problem. The rules you want to teach have to aply every time.

about digging, once the dog knows it is bad and upsets you, if it digs again this is what i have done in the past.
I call the dog over and ask it what it did there. It will try to go away but make it sit for the scolding, telling it "this is bad. I usually emphasize it with hitting the hole every time I say bad. Dobermans hate to be scolded and see you upset. It will take repetition, but it could do the job.

brw is right about the playing, it builds a stronger bond. My wife asked me why the dog doesnt listen to her but listens to me. I told her it is because you dont do anything with the dog other than tell it what to do. So she started walking and playing with him a little and it improved 100%.

Good Luck

 

Right, I agree, i play with her take her for walks, etc. shes more compliant with me in general than with my fiance, which this might be what explains it, as far as her listening problem, ive learned to be a bit more assertive with her, this way shes taking me seriously. As far as the digging goes? well once i replant the back yard ill take that in stride, I have terriers as well...they LOVE digging/eating dirt.

 

I agree that you've gotten some really good advice on training and training problems from several people.

I've got a couple of comments that may give additional insight.

Defiance: This, for me falls into the same category as "revenge"--it's not really in the behavior model of canines. Often what looks like "defiance" to the owner is frustration on the part of the dog and that can be from a couple of sorces. The first would be a dog who just plain isn't as trained as the owner/handler thought it was--the dog may become frustrated because it just plain does't know what the heck you want. The second situation is couched in the fact that dogs don't generalize well. Just because a dog knows "sit" or "down" or "stay" at home or in the back yard doesn't mean that it carries on to less quiet, different situations--like a class (and you hear this all the time from novice trainers--"He does this perfectly at home...") or heeling on a fairly busy street that has other dogs around as distractions, other people, cars, bicycles etc.

The reason people who trial dogs in, say, Obedience take them all kinds of places and repeat the exercises in the unfamiliar places is what "proofing" is all about. This teaches the dog that the proper response to known commands is the same in Times Square as it is in your living room or the place the class is held.

I learned to ride on a very well trained horse--she mut have run away with me about a million times and I fell off about a million times--as I learned to be a better rider and how to give significant (not just random) signals wth rein and leg she stopped running away. I stopped falling off and actually became a pretty decent rider. In that particular case the horse did a good job of training me because someone had originally done a good job of training hr.

Good trainers--those experienced in training dogs who understand both dog behavior and things that people do to produce failure in training get faster results, better results and it looks magical to the novice trainer. KevinK's example of Abe the boxer is very much on point. This is where classes with good instructors pay off in a big way.

If a trainer told me my dog (makes no difference what breed) would "grow out of" some unacceptable behavior without me taking an active role in working with the dog, training the dog, to change the unacceptable behavior I'd be looking for a different trainer.

I also don't think that there is any sort of a cut and dried training method that really works well--I've been training dogs since the heighday of jerk and pull methods--I didn't train that way when I started training and I don't train in what is regarded as an entirely positive manner today--but I also don't use a lot of punitive measures. I don't do a lot of shaping because my timing has never really been good enough to get good results. I think it boils down to doing whatever it takes for you and the particular dog you are working with.

I'll guarantee though, that one thing you'll find out with Dobes is that if you aren't prepared to be smarter than they are when you are training they will promptly take up training you. A month later you'll wonder why the dog seems incapable of learning x, y or z--think about it--they don't have to--they've trained you instead. That's where all of the "My dog only does this stuff if I have a treat--he won't come when I call if I don't have a treat!" Who trained whom?

Good luck, have fun...