Most good breeders are going to either require limited or if a show puppy a co-ownership, unless a buyer has a long history in the breed. Unless you want to show in conformation or breed a dog there is no other restrictions on a limited registration, the dog is your dog, you just can't show in conformation or breed the dog and most breeders will require spay/neuter. You can compete in all events outside of conformation with a limited registration, all obedience, agility, tracking and working events.

My last two dogs were sold to me on full registration but I've also been in the breed for over 35 years and have never bred a dog so trust does develop but it takes years to get trust with the good breeders for good reason, as too many of them have been burned and found one of their dogs in some back yard breeding program. From what you have posted on what you want to do with a dog, I really can't see why limited will not work for you. I've done enough volunteer work with rescue to see the results of byb and fully understand why the good breeders want to do everything possible so their pups don't get in those hands.

You can go to a commercial greeder or byb and get a pup on full registration because they don't care about the welfare of the breed. I really hope you don't go down that path. You won't get a quality puppy from titled and health tested parents and you will have no breeder support. Even if you find a byb who will give you support you have to beware of who you are getting support from as those people don't have much knowledge of the breed, however some can talk a good game. It takes actually getting out there and competing along with good mentors to acquire knowledge and experience.

I don't really understand the moral question as to spay/neuter and why you wouldn't want to alter on a companion dog. You might want to rethink that before asking a good breeder to sell you a companion dog.

 

Thanks- I would defintely consider it.

 

I understand the difference between AKC Limited and AKC Full Registration but why limit some and not all?

Well, the first thing that comes to mind (are you sure you understand the difference between limited and full registration?) is that if you only allowed limited registration it would take only one generation and there would be no more registered purebred AKC Dobermans.

I've read up on this and see the concern for improving the breed and preventing BYB (causing increassed mixes in shelters).

The limited registration, as it is used by the better breeders, is really to prevent people who don't know much about the breed from breeding and registering offspring of puppies the breeder did not feel were the best representatives of the breed.

As I become closer to finding my dobie- to me this seems like a big factor. I just want a healthy companion/pet to hopefully work/train/play. Just having "full" next to registration provides a sense of comfort instead of "limited."

Could you explain this? I don't understand what "sense of comfort" having a piece of paper that says full (actually they don't say full--if it's not it says limited) would bring. If what you seek is a healthy companion/pet with which you can work/train/play what earthly difference does it make what the registration says.

Also with limited registration another question which arises is to neuter/spay or not to neuter/spay? I mean there are tremendous benefits to have your dog neuterd/spayed but this brings up a moral question (which is a separate issue).

The limited registration does not require a neuter/spay. Your contract with the breeder may. Personally I don't see much reason to keep a pet intact but that's just my opinion--if asked I generally recommend desexing a Dobe intended as a non-show/non-breeding prospect. And I guess I'm pretty stupid this morning because I REALLY don't see that the question of spay/neuter as any sort of a moral issue.

 

Thanks for your reply- I knew my questions might raise some attention. I say comfort because what if my dobie turns out to be a super dog and loves to work/compete. I'm new to show/working but I love watching the agility competitions and would be interested in that.

What you're saying is true, I just want a loving companion and Im sure a breeder that has been doing this for 20+ years would know best. Most of the reputable breeders that some of you mention here offer the limited registration.

I had my concerns becuase saw some ads where the price greatly varied because some were full and some were limited.
As far as neutering- I would go through with this but have always wondered if this was painful for a dog (similar to cropping). But neutering is for a good cause.

thx!

Could you explain this? I don't understand what "sense of comfort" having a piece of paper that says full (actually they don't say full--if it's not it says limited) would bring. If what you seek is a healthy companion/pet with which you can work/train/play what earthly difference does it make what the registration says.

 

there are people what ask for more money for it,there shoudln't,but there is.same with(we had that before,in another thread) that some asking more for "show"puppy,then for a pet one.that shouldn't be either.but thats just my opinion

 

Thank you so much- you're like a well of knowledge :clap_1:
I appreciate the help

 

So a Dog on an AKC limited registration cannot be shown in conformation?
Odd. In Canada any type of CKC registration allows a dog to be shown in any venue.

 

Dogs with limited registration can compete in all AKC venues *except* conformation. In the U.S. the Conformation ring is for intact dogs and bitches that will be used for breeding.

 

The ONLY thing limited by 'limited registration' is breeding and showing in the conformation show ring. You are eligible to compete in all performance events. Most likely, if your breeder (who should be active in the breed, show their dogs, health tests, etc) wants the dog on limited registration most likely the dog will also be sold on a spay/neuter contract and will be REQUIRED to be spayed/neutered. Why? Because they have probably spent a long time developing their breeding program and do not want people breeding it without their consent. And MurreyDobe is correct, if your dog turned out nicely BEFORE it was spayed and your breeder felt it could be competitive in conformation, the process to change limited registration to full registration is not hard. But if your main goal is to have a healthy companion and the option to compete in performance events. Limited Registration is fine.

 

Okay this is great info!

 

It sounds like initially you were confusing limited/full registration with a co-ownership agreement?

Limited registration is nothing to be concerned about. It doesn't change how much you "own" your companion dog one iota. Everyone else has done a great job of explaining all of that to you.

Co-owning is often done with show dogs (i.e. dogs on *full registration*) that either go to an owner who is an unknown quantity, so to speak, to the breeder OR if the breeder wants to retain breeding rights on the dog after it has earned its Championship. For the new owners, it's a matter of trust and preserving their lines. In the other case, it's keeping alive their breeding philosophy even though the dog doesn't live with them.

If you ever decide you do want to show, don't be surprised if your breeder co-owns with you. Depending on the breeder, co-owning could have a bearing on what you can/can't do with your dog. The good thing about co-ownership is that you have a legally binding contract which, if it's done correctly, will spell out everything in detail that is expected of you, and likewise of the breeder. If that's the road you want to go down, you MUST make sure you're comfortable with the terms of the agreement. If you're not, keep looking. Not every breeder asks the same things of their co-owners.

Of course, all of this is a moot point if you don't plan on showing and therefore would have your dog on a limited registration. :biggrin55:

 

Limited registration raised some awareness but I'm okay with it now.
When I was younger our dog was not neutered and he was great.
But I've read a lot about it and the positives- I'll check with the breeder about whats the best age or should it be done if the pup is ok etc..

I just can't wait for my pup and if he enjoys working/training I would definetly be interested in agility competitions.

Thx!

It sounds like initially you were confusing limited/full registration with a co-ownership agreement?

Limited registration is nothing to be concerned about. It doesn't change how much you "own" your companion dog one iota. Everyone else has done a great job of explaining all of that to you.

Co-owning is often done with show dogs (i.e. dogs on *full registration*) that either go to an owner who is an unknown quantity, so to speak, to the breeder OR if the breeder wants to retain breeding rights on the dog after it has earned its Championship. For the new owners, it's a matter of trust and preserving their lines. In the other case, it's keeping alive their breeding philosophy even though the dog doesn't live with them.

If you decide you do want to show, don't be surprised if your breeder co-owns with you. Depending on the breeder, co-owning can have a bearing on what you can/can't do with your dog. The good thing about co-ownership is that you have a legally binding contract which, if it's done correctly, will spell out everything in detail that is expected of you, and likewise of the breeder. If that's the road you want to go down, you MUST make sure you're comfortable with the terms of the agreement. If you're not, keep looking. Not every breeder asks the same things of their co-owners.

Of course, all of this is a moot point if you don't plan on showing and therefore would have your dog on a limited registration. :biggrin55:

 

Here is an email I received today:
It has come to my attention that AKC's rules have changed in practice. They only require ONE signature of a co-owned bitch to register a litter and the individual puppies. I have attached Chapter 3 Section 6 of their rule book, as it may alter how you as breeders use a co-ownership to retain control of breeding. Hope this is helpful to you all.

If this is true, I might not ever again let a puppy leave my house on a full registration, seems now like a co ownership means nothing anymore as far as protecting a breeding program. Leave it to AKC to screw things up, how can we as breeders feel safe now letting a bitch go on a full registration with a co ownership? Contracts mean nothing, try to enforce one in court it's nearly impossible. This is very bad news for show breeders.

 

IMO what would make more sense would be for AKC to allow pups on limited registration to be shown in conformation. Then breeders could sell pups on limited and change it to full IF the pup turned out, was finished or pointed, etc.

And I agree if a dog/bitch is co-owned then both signatures should be required to register offspring, make changes, etc.

 

redobes post explains exactly how things work with the Canadian Kennel Club already. I do wish the AKC would adopt the same rules and regulations. Many breeders here put all pups on non breeding papers, but will lift them if the owner follows through with showing and health tests. Also ALL co-owners must sign litter applications and stud rights. Plus as I have said before ALL pups must be identified with either a tattoo or a micro chip BEFORE they leave their breeders home.

 

In the UK, we have endorsements. R and X which are put on when the litter is born or when the puppy is registered by the new owner. R endorsement is used to prevent the registering of litters born to the endorsed dog with the Kennel Club. X is used to prevent the registration of puppies born that later move overseas, so you would not be able to register a KC puppy with the AKC or CKC etc.

One can still show, and work with or without the endorsements.

EDIT: You can place endorsements on puppies when they are older. Lets say you are selling a KC dog you have currently, he is 3 years old and you don't want him being used as a breeding machine. You can apply as the registered owner of the dog to have the endorsements placed before he leaves for his new home. Endorsements can only be lifted by the person who placed them.

 

Just to clarify for newbies and "lurkers":
the "CKC" referred to in this thread is the "Canadian Kennel Club" and not the "Continental Kennel Club".

The AKC does not accept transfers of ConKC registration.:wavey: