Yeah, I'm not a fan on Cesar Millan's training methods either but I don't think he did anything criminal here. And like you say, I certainly hope this doesn't lead to any negative focus on dog training and dog sports.

 

I'm not supporter of PETA/HSUS/ASPCA or any of the other animal rights wackjobs but Milan deserves this.

In the clip the dog repeatedly tries to chase the squeeling pig. He knows that it has killed pigs in the past. So what does he do? He lets the dog go off leash and has an assistant hold a pig by the back leg until it squeals and incites the dog. Even as it is attacked the pig is restrained and Milan has to chase after the dog to stop it. Instead of putting the dog on leash it is turned loose with the pigs again while still amped up. Then comes the ridiculous chase scene where Milan proves he has NO control over the situation and another pig is chased down and attacked.

He deliberately put these animals in a situation where he knew they could be harmed and took no meaningful measures to protect them from that harm. So I personally believe he deserves everything he gets.

 

I really don't mean to be crude here but wouldn't you rather eat the pig and save the dog? I don't like to see animals suffer but sometimes it has a purpose. Their lives serve us that is how the planet and this world were designed. I guess we could just kill the dog. Should we restrain it and keep the liability. I don't think we can train him out of his aggression using treats. What would we all do here to solve this problem? I should be clear here I don't necessarily agree with a lot of Cesar's training methods but I think it would be hard for him to be successful if his methods didn't work for him at least.

 

Their lives serve us that is how I BELIEVE the planet and this world were designed.

Fixed it for ya. And that is most definitely NOT how I believe the planet was "designed" - whatever that means.

 

There are others ways of saving the dog without utilizing antiquated and abusive techniques.

 

Animal baiting is illegal, and rightly so. This was a case of animal baiting. The dog was known to attack pigs, yet was turned loose with pigs, one of whom was restrained from being able to escape. If you have seen the footage, then you will know that it wasn't a "nip" as described in the Nat Geo press release. The pig had nearly half its ear ripped off.

The dog also offered several very clear avoidance behaviors, none of which were rewarded, before it was provoked into attack the pig.

 

How about we strip and hog tie Cesar Milan. Then rub him all over with bacon grease and let the dogs go! Oh wait.... Never mind. Then we would be just like him.

 

The dog owner tried ALL positive reinforcement techniques and professional trainers but nothing worked. The dog owner was faced with either giving away the dog to a shelter or giving away her potbelly pigs to a shelter. She turned to Caesar Milan and in the end the dog and her pigs get along without issues. Her problem was solved. The pig is completely fine (it was a minor bite) and the dog and pig get along fine today.

Peoples dobes have chased and even attacked other smaller animals like rabbits due to dobes prey drive. Would and did these dog owners turn themselves in to local authorities to be cited and charged with animal cruelty?

Some might not agree with his techniques but just like in child development, some parents use time outs, some use only positive techniques with no form of negative punishments, etc. In the end the positive reinforcement parents statistically still have children grow up into teenagers and young adults and their children turn to drugs and crime and end up dead or in prison.

There is no one size fits all for all situations. Caesar deals with "red cases" or cases where the dog faces mandatory death due to its aggression and local authorities are about to seize and destroy the dog. Caesar steps in and has saved many of these red cases and the dogs still are alive today and function in their family. Sometimes he takes them to his rehabilitation center in California to live out their lives in a dog pack. Claiming Caesar is cruel and hates animals is like political demagoguery.

Just like in life, it's not always black and white. All of us who enter into marriages have heard and realize that 50% of the marriages will end in divorce. Yet we still proceed with 1 in 2 odds that it will fail in a divorce. We raise kids using different parental techniques but statistics show that even in the most "perfect" environment the young adult does still turn to drugs and crime and a destructive lifestyle.

The point of this is that Caesar loves animals and loves helping people. He has saved hundreds if not thousands of dogs lives. Dogs that were doomed to be injected and killed with a lethal dose of poison because they were deemed dangerous. Not everyone might agree with his methods but he takes on cases that professional trainers couldn't fix.

 

Peoples dobes have chased and even attacked other smaller animals like rabbits due to dobes prey drive. Would and did these dog owners turn themselves in to local authorities to be cited and charged with animal cruelty?

Pretty sure those Dobe owners don't fence those small animals in with the intention of letting their dogs rip them apart like CM did. Also pretty sure none of them capture and hold animals for their dogs to rip into either like his "helper" did.

I'd even go so far to say as CM intended to let the dog bloody up a pig for the same reasons as he lets dogs bite him on camera: 1) he's a bloody idiot and 2) for ratings.

Not everything has to be positive reinforcement only. Sure, sometimes you have to use positive punishment. But at the same time you have protect the well being of any other animals you use in the "rehabilitation" process. CM failed spectacularly in that part. There are worse things than rehoming a pet that is not suitable for its current home. Such as being subjected to CM. And anyone who thinks that dumping a pet at the shelter is the only other option is just lazy. Which doesn't inspire much hope that any necessary follow up training will be followed to maintain the shut down condition CM left the dog in.

 

@ Pettrix
Your words: "Peoples dobes have chased and even attacked other smaller animals like rabbits due to dobes prey drive. Would and did these dog owners turn themselves in to local authorities to be cited and charged with animal cruelty?"

Seriously?! We are talking apples and oranges. There is absolutely no comparison between a dog meeting a prey animal in the wild acting on its natural drive, and having a person corral and restrain a helpless animal and use it for bait in order to alter a dog's behavior. None...

Just for the record, I am hard-line when it comes to my boys chasing wild animals. It is simply NOT allowed. My boys will be at our cabin in Yellowstone in a few weeks. Bison, bears, coyotes, elk, deer, porcupines, skunks, rabbits, etc. Prey drive or not, they will not be allowed to chase. They may stalk and observe.

That being said, there is a definite benefit to having one's dogs chase off varmints. I would have no problem having my guys keeping my private property free of rabbits, voles, raccoons, coyotes and the like.

John
Portland OR

 

I can see this topic is a hot button. Similar to political banter, it creates quite a bit of vitriol and strong emotional based reactions. Even going as far as one person claiming to have deity like abilities and being able to read a persons heart and mind and knowing Caesar Milans intentions. No animal was "ripped apart" and there was no such "intention".

This forum has frequent posts with dobe owners that are at their wits end and about to give away their dobe to an animal shelter, which if not adopted, the dobe will face certain death. Blame can be placed on numerous issues and hindsight is always 20/20 but the fact remains that there are dobes and other breeds that have cases where the dog has seen numerous professional experts and the dog is facing certain death.

“Cesar Millan has dedicated his life to helping dogs and to showing how even the most difficult ‘problem dog’ can be rescued and rehabilitated,” the statement read. “Cesar has created a safe and controlled environment at his Dog Psychology Center in California in which to rehabilitate some of the most extreme—or ‘red zone’—cases of dog aggression, such as Simon’s.”

I don't want to get into a debate over Cesar Milans methods and techniques. It's like talking politics. It turns into a battle royal. People will disagree with him and others love him. That's life. We live in a world with different ideologies, beliefs, religions, traditions, world views, etc.

 

The difference between politics and Cesar style training is that one has been debunked the other is a hamster wheel.

Dogs who are flooded shut down... they're not 'fixed' they're shut down!

 

It seems there are strong opinions for and against CM's tactics in trying to rehabilitate this dog. Maybe he shouldn't have put the dog in that position with the pig yet, but realistically, since the owner wanted his dog to coexist with his pigs, he eventually had to. Before everyone jumps on me, take into consideration that CM worked with this dog extensively and used his own farm animals to help this dog and to teach him to leave the animals alone. I'm sure every dog trainer has made a mistake and could have done things a better way from time to time. If you look at the thousands of dogs and people that CM has helped through the years, he has given them their beloved pets back and brought peace to many chaotic homes; he's kept many dogs from being euthanized and destroyed. There's not a lot of people who are complaining about CM that can say they have done 1/10th of the good things for pets as he has and not made a mistake along the way.
And for people to start petitions and say that he should be taken off tv?? Really??? There's so many people who have been able to help their pets just by watching his show and learning his techniques. It's sad when people are so unforgiving. The pig and dog are fine together now, and the pig's ear was not bitten off. Goodness, it wasn't a serious bite. I'm sure CM learned a lesson from this experience itself, without everyone wanting to punish him so severely over this..... I'm sure everyone who is so against him has made a mistake at their jobs over the years. Same thing. And he doesn't deserve to be punished for it. JMHO....

 

I'm sorry but there are a lot of dogs CM has 'helped' that have been euthanized quietly behind the scenes.
There are dogs he's 'helped' now worse than they were before.
He is not a trainer (even he admits that) he has no behavioural training and has had many negative reviews.
He is charismatic and sounds like he knows what he is talking about. Operative being sounds. He's too rough and doesn't read the dogs well (how many times has He been bitten?)
His techniques are often abusive an unnecessary.

 

Back in 2006 he had similar trouble. I used to really enjoy watching him until I started looking into his training a bit deeper.

'Dog Whisperer' Cesar Millan sued by TV producer - USATODAY.com
If it was a one time ordeal with him not taking precautions I *might* be more lenient with my opinion, but the fact that this is now the second animal cruelty case I've read about involving one of the most influential "professionals" just aggravates me beyond words.