I don't know anything about them, but that is A LOT of money for 2 puppies back!! I really hope that is not true - because if it is ......... IMHO that is a rip off. When you ask for a puppy or puppies back, the price of the bitch should go down.

I sure hope that those are totally spectacular puppies out of a non champion bitch - cuz for that kind of money, I'd be expecting specials quality - LOL!

 

Hmmm...I paid a whole lot more than $3500 for a pup with breeding rights and I think unless you are a party a specific agreement, there is no way to actually no what two parties agree too, right?

 

Wow, Hum Yes thats is alot! Hell I think 2500 for a 8wk old pup is nuts too! damn for those prices it better grow up to be a BIS dog or poop gold bricks LOL, but I guess if people are willing to pay this??? then thats up to the breeder and Owner.
JMHO

 

3500 and 2 pups

YUP BIS and gold bricks that might work.

 

You mean there are people out there that will actually sign a contract like that?? (then there is something in there to the effect that if the SELLER does not want to rebuy the dog back (for no more than $300-100) the PURCHASER can sell them to whomever they want??? Am I reading that wrong?!
I would love to know where they find these people, cause if someone would pay me $3500 for a show bitch with my name left on her, plus two puppies back I will personally deliver that bitch to them.......!!!!!!

 

And we wonder why people turn to BYB's.:cwmddd:

 

I believe that the sire is Chase a top producing dog of about thirty champions who sadly passed in december from complications with a surgery. That would mean artificial insemination and a rare and very sought after litter. I do not think that an unproven sire would fetch the same amount of money as this limited Chase breeding.

All that being said I saw nothing on Bravehearts website that was shocking or showed evidence of not being a responsible breeder. Who are we, or anyone for that matter to say how much is too much for a pup? IMHO that should be left to the breeder and purchaser.

 

Who are we, or anyone for that matter to say how much is too much for a pup? IMHO that should be left to the breeder and purchaser.

I think the part that bothers me about these kind of sale prices and terms is they're almost certainly going to be selling to newbies who don't know any better, and think this is the norm. I'd find it hard to believe an experienced doberman owner/show home would agree to the terms and sell price, most especially from this breeder or any breeder who has no long reputation of producing excellence. To me, this is kind of preying on the unknowing, and taking advantage of their ignorance.

 

Breeders can ask any price they want, some peoples garbage is another persons antiques. I remember a thread about the pricing of trained dogs, with people responding in surprise and disgust. Breed or purchase a pup that has been bred for work (not sport) raise and do the training then figure out your investment and see what the price comes out to be. I sold area dogs in the 60's for over five thousand and I earned it. Then continue the prep work for the duration of the contract. Price a PP trained dog then fiqure what you'd spend buying a pup doing the OB training then PP training and see what you spend. You'll be around five grand. Master trainers aren't cheap. Ha. Von.

 

wow, I thought I was on a bad contract, but nothing like that and no where near as expensive. Love the part if the bitch has a singleton the breeder gets to take it and the bitch owner gets to pay all the expenses, and ya, gets to pick the stud and owner pays expenses, what if she wants a stud dog on the other side of the country used.
have to wonder how many get sold on that contract.
I was quoted $4000 by one breeder when looking for my foundation bitch, I walked away from that in a hurry.

 

So.... you sell a bitch, pick the stud, and the buyer has to return 2 pups with a health guarentee for genetic defects from your bitch and the stud you picked...

A two year health guarantee will be included with said puppys against all genetic defects, for hip dysplasia and all hereditary diseases.

 

that one threw me too, I mean, I have had to give pups back to the breeder I got Grace from, but I don't have to provide a health guarantee. that is nuts!

 

CaroleAnn asked me to post for her. She has NO BREEDINGS scheduled with anyone at this time. All of her puppies are spoken for. She is busy at home with pups and her computer is giving her trouble.

 

She'd better be talking to this breeder then, because this is whats posted on her website:


"ENCHANTING PROSPECTS"
AN EXCITING LITTER PLANNED WITH
CAMBRIA'S FORGET-ME-NOT
AND
AMERICAN/CANADIAN CH. RAUSCHUNDS'S MONSIEUR MARQUIS






DATE OF BIRTH: LITTER WILL BE BORN APPROX. July 2009.

We are currently accepting deposits for the color and sex of your choice from our next litter
whelped sometime in July and available in September 2009.

 

This kennel, its prices, and its contract etc were discussed in September in this thread, which ended in a flurry of drama and sarcastic remarks on both sides:
http://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding-breeders/16063-braveheart-loyalheart-dobermans.html

 

This kennel, its prices, and its contract etc were discussed in September in this thread, which ended in a flurry of drama and sarcastic remarks on both sides:
http://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding-breeders/16063-braveheart-loyalheart-dobermans.html

I remember that thread well. A breeder can decide to charge what ever they want, same goes with the terms of the contracts. If a buyer wants to purchase the puppy under their terms, so be it.

Their prices and contract terms are the least of my concerns with that breeder.

She'd better be talking to this breeder then, because this is whats posted on her website:

"ENCHANTING PROSPECTS"
AN EXCITING LITTER PLANNED WITH
CAMBRIA'S FORGET-ME-NOT
AND
AMERICAN/CANADIAN CH. RAUSCHUNDS'S MONSIEUR MARQUIS

DATE OF BIRTH: LITTER WILL BE BORN APPROX. July 2009.

We are currently accepting deposits for the color and sex of your choice from our next litter
whelped sometime in July and available in September 2009.

I saw this too MD, and I'm wondering since Monsieur Marquis is co-owned that maybe Rauschund doesn't know what is up.

I won't get into all my issues with this breeder's philosophies as it's been hashed over on the previous thread, only that I'd never recommend them to anyone nor purchase a dog from them. There are much more responsible and ethical breeders out there to choose from with much more agreeable pricing and contracts.

 

I have recently seen a female pup sold for 5000Euros (approx 6635 USD)
She was the most expensive pup in the litter, but one look at the pup you know why so much was paid for her..

 

Do these dogs poo gold?

 

No they dont poo gold but the bitch i mentioned above is a potential champion and i should have added that the breeder agreed to let this pup go for that price with the condition that he will have access to her anytime for showing.

 

I remember the original thread very clearly because I started it. I was just pointing out that this particular breeder was selling frozen semen of a dog that she claimed to have been put to sleep because it was affected by Wobbler's.

I think her expectations are far too high but buyers are free to agree to whatever they wish. It's just not something I'd consider in this lifetime, at least not from her.

 

Wow, this post just made my heart drop into my stomach - before reading the whole thing, I thought it was about Braveheart Dobermans in PA (who seems to be a very reputable breeder). Thanks to this forum, I'm using the criteria that I learned to make a more informed decision.

 

Two totally different breeders - two very similar names. The PA breeder's kennel name is actually spelled Bravehart...good for you for checking it out!

 

Well, I guess if someone wanted a particular line or a pup from a particular breeding, they would being making an informed decision. $3500 does not seem that out of line for a puppy, to me, if it is something that I wanted to introduce.

Heck, I had someone offer me $10,000 back in January for Ozzie. Currently I'm fending off someone who is quite insistent...we're at $15,000 U.S. I keep emailing him back and saying I'm sorry, this dog just is so sweet, I can't sell him. LOL when he went to jump up on me, I told him I just might agree to 20,000 if he didn't knock it off, he actually hung his head and slunk away.....poor guy LOL
I may live to regret it, who knows, but Ozzie is one of the nicest dogs I've had to live with.

 

Well, I guess if someone wanted a particular line or a pup from a particular breeding, they would being making an informed decision. $3500 does not seem that out of line for a puppy, to me, if it is something that I wanted to introduce.

Heck, I had someone offer me $10,000 back in January for Ozzie. Currently I'm fending off someone who is quite insistent...we're at $15,000 U.S. I keep emailing him back and saying I'm sorry, this dog just is so sweet, I can't sell him. LOL when he went to jump up on me, I told him I just might agree to 20,000 if he didn't knock it off, he actually hung his head and slunk away.....poor guy LOL
I may live to regret it, who knows, but Ozzie is one of the nicest dogs I've had to live with.

Some dogs are just priceless. Red boys do steal hearts ya know! :thumbsup:

 

One would think if you're going to make a contract - and have it be a legal binding document, you might want to try using spell check.
Last time I checked, the plural of puppy was PUPPIES not "puppys".

 

Heck, I had someone offer me $10,000 back in January for Ozzie. Currently I'm fending off someone who is quite insistent...we're at $15,000 U.S. I keep emailing him back and saying I'm sorry, this dog just is so sweet, I can't sell him. LOL when he went to jump up on me, I told him I just might agree to 20,000 if he didn't knock it off, he actually hung his head and slunk away.....poor guy LOL
I may live to regret it, who knows, but Ozzie is one of the nicest dogs I've had to live with.[/QUOTE]


Wow, that's amazing. And we all know when someone pays that kind of money, they are looking at the dog as an investment. They're planning on getting every penny back and much more even if they have to accept the less than stellar bitch.

 

Wow, you mean in the US you do not need ALL owners to sign papers! Is that ALL papers of any kind....transfers of ownership, litter registrations, stud owners, etc. In Canada, ALL co-owners must agree and ALL must sign anything to do with a co-owned dog.

 

On a litter registration form in the US you need all of the bitches owners to sign but not all stud dog owners. With the AKC you only need one stud dog owners signature to register a litter.

 

Thanks Kalora. What about transfering ownership on a co-owned dog? Must ALL owners sign the transfer in the US?

 

Yes.

The reason only one owner of a stud dog has to sign litter registration papers is because they're only certifying that a breeding involving their male took place.

 

I believe all owners of a Stud dog should sign the papers too. Why co-own a dog if you are not going to approve the bitches he is bred too. All owners should be responsible in any decisions regarding the dog.

 

I agree DLS !

 

Actually, the AKC registered a few litters a couple of years ago where the stud dog owner didn't even know her dog had been bred, let alone approved the bitch or bitch owners. He was in the custody of a handler at the time the breedings took place. His owner refused to sign the litter registrations, and it created a big hoopla. Dna testing was done, and when it was proven the stud dog did sire the puppies, the AKC registered the litters anyway.

 

Me thinks the AKC better tighten up their rules and regulations a wee bit. I am more than a little bit concerned with a few things, especially the registration of cross bred DObes.

Back to the original posters concerns. CaroleAnn...........did you approve the mating that has been advertised?

 

I emailed Caroleann about this thread, I know right now she is very busy with pups and work so you may not get an answer any time soon?

 

I understand she is busy. Gemma must be due soon too! But, a simple yes or no would not take much time.

 

I did post for CaroleAnn yesterday that she has no breedings planned at this time. I am sure she will be contacting this person when she has a chance.

If someone says to you, "I really love your boy, he has traits I'd like to bring into my lines" how do you go about vetting them? Just curious.