Town Hall Topic - Loose Leash Walking - Page 2 - Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums
Town Hall Topics The purpose of this section is to compare, discuss, and educate each other in some of the common things we do with our Dobermans.

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post #26 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-03-2010, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Doberchick View Post
I used to think this about prongs too. But have you ever tried a prong on yourself? The other day, while visiting the pet store, I put it on my arm and asked my boyfriend to give it a good tug. There was pressure, but it didn't *hurt*. No sharp pain like I've felt with the choke chain collars...it literally pinched me! Just pressure. I can't imagine choking yourself with a nylon, leather, or chain collar feels any better!

I think the choke chain collars are meant for for quick correction when teaching the dog to walk on a leash. A slight but quick tug on the leash causes the chain to pinch the dogs neck, feeling much like the bite correction given by their mothers. I'm no expert on the subject, but it seems to me like the prong collars teach the dog not to pull so much, because if it pulls, it feels the pressure of the collar. The prongs are more effective than a nylon or leather flat collar because yes, the dog CAN feel the pressure from the prongs. That's why its used as a training type collar, to teach the dog that if it pulls, it won't feel too great. ((Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm open to education!))

I found this to be a great article regarding the prong collar
The Prong Collar Revisited

Not trying to change your mind, I just think that people (myself included!) are quick to judge things they don't fully understand. I'd hate to be called cruel for using a valuable training tool on my dog!

Couldn't agree more, the prong collar isnt as evil as people thinks, it's a great tool.
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post #27 of 58 (permalink) Old 10-31-2010, 03:04 PM
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I agree. I think chain collars are not dog-friendly. Prongs are better but I still believe these tools are not necessary in training. I am a fan of treats and clicker training.
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post #28 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-15-2011, 01:55 AM
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How did your Doberman learn to not pull on a leash? Any particular methods did you use? Prong collar reprimand ages 4-6 months. Prior to that age, and AFTER neutering we used the 'stop the walk' method if he pulled. It's very boring, and patience is vital.

At what age did you start to see any improvements? How often do they need reminders? He was a terror between 4 and 6 months. Everything seemed it was a battle for supremacy. After neutering life improved greatly He was totally turned around, and reliable by a year!

What type of collar and leash do you use? (prong, harness, flexi, etc) I use a 'hand' leash attached to his prong collar. When out for a walk I use his Service Vest's handle... his leash is tucked under his vest, handy in case of a distraction.

What distractions are the hardest to overcome? People he knows offer the greatest challenge - they are, still, just too hard for a puppy to ignore

Are there any particular situations that you find more difficult to walk in than others? (Large crowds, parks, other dogs around) I don't like to walk around loose dogs. Hugo is a service dog, and I object to others allowing their dogs to harrasse me OR my dog!! MANY people are very rude!!
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post #29 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-15-2011, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doberchick View Post
I used to think this about prongs too. But have you ever tried a prong on yourself? The other day, while visiting the pet store, I put it on my arm and asked my boyfriend to give it a good tug. There was pressure, but it didn't *hurt*. No sharp pain like I've felt with the choke chain collars...it literally pinched me! Just pressure. I can't imagine choking yourself with a nylon, leather, or chain collar feels any better!

. . . I found this to be a great article regarding the prong collar
The Prong Collar Revisited . . .
This is exactly how I was introduced to prong collars many years ago. Despite repeated instruction, I'm someone who has never mastered the art of effectively snapping a correction with the slip collar.

And thanks for the link to the article on prongs. This is one I hadn't seen before. I especially liked the comments on the prong's use to eliminate the nagging that often occurs with slip collars.

As to the question about walking on a loose lead . . . Jack is very drivey, and neighbourhood walks during his puppyhood and adolescence were an exercise in utter frustration. When he pulled (all the time), we would stop dead and wait for him to pay attention. He would stop, too, then circle back around us and rush straight back out to the end of the lead. Needless to say, our progress was agonizingly slow, and a couple of months ago, I would have said that the technique hadn't worked at all. We also tried turning quickly and walking in a different direction -- with the same effect (i.e., no effect at all).

To avoid the frustration and because we often wanted to actually end up at a destination within a reasonable time, we resorted to keeping him at heel when walking in the neighbourhood. No loose-lead walking. He got his exercise on off-lead runs in the bush.

But we recently tried him on a loose lead again -- and lo and behold, all those months and months of frustrating and apparently fruitless exercises with stopping or turning suddenly seem to have paid off. Phew! He still needs reminders, but when we stop now, he no longer rushes straight back out to the end of the lead. It was a very, very long time coming, but we can now actually reach a destination with him on a loose lead.
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post #30 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-15-2011, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooligan View Post
As to the question about walking on a loose lead . . . Jack is very drivey, and neighbourhood walks during his puppyhood and adolescence were an exercise in utter frustration. When he pulled (all the time), we would stop dead and wait for him to pay attention. He would stop, too, then circle back around us and rush straight back out to the end of the lead. Needless to say, our progress was agonizingly slow, and a couple of months ago, I would have said that the technique hadn't worked at all. We also tried turning quickly and walking in a different direction -- with the same effect (i.e., no effect at all).

To avoid the frustration and because we often wanted to actually end up at a destination within a reasonable time, we resorted to keeping him at heel when walking in the neighbourhood. No loose-lead walking. He got his exercise on off-lead runs in the bush.
Have you stolen my dog? LOL this is the EXACT problem I was having with Diesel. After months of trying I have changed from a long lead and harness to a short lead and prong, and we are starting to see results. Starting with a long lead just gave him too much freedom to decide when and where to walk nicely, so we are working on a short lead and a clicker, and I'm hoping once he gets it we can go gradually longer.
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post #31 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-23-2011, 10:36 PM
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Hugo uses a prong collar when we're just out and about, and sometimes when he's working (he's a Service Dog). Otherwise, we use a long, multi-position lead I can tie around my waist or wear over my shoulder.
Hugo was taught not to pull by the 'stop dead in your tracks' method, which I see others have used too. It is very time consuming, and requires a lot of patience on your part... but it works, and understandably so - - he wants to go, not sit!
Hugo watches EVERYTHING! I let him look (actually encourage him to look) at everything, then after a few moments I say, 'That'll do!' and he is to return his attention to me and carry on with whatever he's supposed to be doing.
Treats are the name of the game for Hugo... Popcorn! Training and education is on-going, too... School is ALWAYS in session for my baby.
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post #32 of 58 (permalink) Old 03-30-2011, 11:40 AM
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I've held off on posting here because Elka in fact does not walk loose-leash and still pulls in a manner that is probably my primary failing as her trainer (well. that and recall).

But! Today we took our first clicker walk! I always just use a flat buckle collar with her, and a leather leash. We had a choke chain briefly, but I knew I wasn't using it right, and she didn't care anyway, so we swiftly replaced it. Loose leash is all I'm concentrating on right now, as we're not in any kind of competition anything so heeling is not a big concern, besides the fact that I heel her on my right anyway. I figure loose leash on my right, and when/if I introduce a formal heel, I can do that on my left. We've worked with both in the past, and we're working on "right" and "left".

The only problem with the clicker is that I still don't have a good idea of how many treats to bring, and have little concept of how long a quartered and then diced hot dog lasts (about 20 minutes, if you're stingy). Once we got out of the driveway (potty first!) and across the street and got over the "WOOOO WE'RE WALKING" (and got the clicker and leash settled), she was very very good. Dogs barking and snarling in their houses did not interrupt Elka's walk/pause/look at me. We've also been working on the automatic sit, and I was very pleased until I ran out of treats. We're certainly not to the "fade the treats" stage of this yet, so once they were gone, and she didn't want to smell the bag anymore, we were back to trying to bound around and dart off, etc. But, she did very well, and even after the "good" behavior degenerated, she wasn't too "bad", so overall it was pretty nice.

The psychology degree I have makes me like the clicker. The human part of me wants the dog to just friggin' walk right. Sometimes we meet, and talk.
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post #33 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-02-2011, 08:11 PM
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My Dobie is quite the pain on a leash also. I think he has become immune to the prong, will not move on the gentle lead. I met with a trainer, but he is quite strong and will pull me over in a minute! Advice woule be helpful thanx
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post #34 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-11-2011, 04:50 AM
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These are my opinions. Everyone has one I am more than willing to read yours as well so please don't take my post the wrong way. Thanks

If you are having issues and have a few extra dollars I would suggest a basic dog training class from a good reputable dog trainer. Not the petsmart/petco type but the kind of people who work with dogs to do agility, schutzhund or something that requires basic obedience. And practice practice practice at least one a day for 15-30 mins dependin on dogs age

I am not a trainer nor do I have a dog that's in any sport at the moment but going to trainers helped me tons and i learned a bit too.

Also I have never tried one but would like to one day, electric training collars with remotes sound like they are perfect for training. You don't have to shock your dog they make vibrating and beeping ones similar to clicker training. I have shocked myself with a sportdog sd400-s series collar and the shock on lowest is not painful in the least more of a tingle. But higher up it really does hurt so don't abuse it or it will mess your dog up


All collars are tools and when used properly are great but when abused or mis handled can injure you pet physically or mentally. So keep that in mind. I think this is why shock collars get such a negative light shed on them

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post #35 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-16-2011, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kratty View Post
Town Hall Topic – Loose Leash Walking
  • How did you teach your Doberman to not pull on a leash? Any particular methods did you use?
  • At what age did you start to see any improvements? How often do they need reminders?
  • What type of collar and leash do you use? (prong, harness, flexi, etc)
  • What distractions are the hardest to overcome?
  • Are there any particular situations that you find more difficult to walk in than others? (Large crowds, parks, other dogs around)[
Adhara is a year and a half, and we are still struggling with it. She will heel with the anticipation of a treat dangling in my hand at my knee, but she'll go full steam ahead and not even be aware of the fact she is on leash. Just trying to be consistent, and mix things up with focused heeling, learning her release command ( I will give her the release b/c she likes to run ahead and double back for exercise incessantly- but only after I release her). We will mix in some basic command training here and there too. I'll pull in neighborhood kids to help train/reward her too. Then I give her times she gets to be a dog and just sniff around, point out squirrels, etc. So she still pulls, and I don't know when she will break from it.

I use a retractable lead because ultimately I can lock her to my side and because part of my walk is for exercise (our dog park undergoes maintenance and has to close from time to time and we've had so much rain, my backyard is a mud slick). Or, I can let her run up and down a bit to expend energy on the walk. Seems to me that the point is to get her to follow the command and I like to have the flexibility with a retractable.

Barely some improvement after 1 year old, but she is still needing constant reminding. I've tried the stopping in my tracks so that she'd get the hint that no forward progress occurs till I say so, but she's content to wait me out and back to full steam ahead. This has gone on for almost a year.

I've used everything but prongs......Gentle Leader has helped the best, but it's starting to chafe her snout because she rushes ahead so intensely and when she runs out of lead, it rubs her pretty good over time. We have to walk her and there's really not a time it seems when she is not pulling.

Can I say all of them? Mainly squirrels and other dogs and passersby on the sidewalk.

She does well in a crowd...it's the loner on the sidewalk that's a trick. But she loooooooves other dogs and that's her biggest downfall. She thinks they are made to play with her.

"Peace and comfort are to be found only in simple obedience." Francois Fenelon

Last edited by GlennJ; 04-16-2011 at 06:14 PM.
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post #36 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-19-2011, 01:37 PM
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I got Guinness at eight weeks old, and tired SO many things to try and get him to walk loose leash. Tried the pinch....no success...He didnt even care when he got pinched...at all. Then I went out and bought one of those body harnesses, which has turned out to work great. I used that along with a clicker, and everytime he would start to get ahead of me the harness would turn him toward me and when he would look at me, click treat. Did that for a few weeks and he made great progress. Now I use his regular collar with the clicker still and when he is at my side looking straight ahead I click and place a treat on the ground by my heel. He has been responding really well to this method.

Obstacles: Since I got Guinness in May of last year, he has done most of his growing and learning during the winter which here in MN lasts well...forever. Now that it finally getting sort of nice out he is seeing bikes for the first time....My god...evertime he sees a bike he tries to dart off...same with runners etc. This is now where my challenge lies.
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post #37 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-25-2011, 05:01 PM
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No loosh leash walking here. I use a prong and the dogs are in heel position at all times on walks. Koda can be walked with a flat buckle collar and does not pull. Chance still needs some work with a regular collar but when he has his prong on, he walks like an angel!
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post #38 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-27-2011, 01:18 PM
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  • How did you teach your Doberman to not pull on a leash? Any particular methods did you use?

    My dobe is already turning 4 in august and it is only this summer that I trained him to walk without pulling the leash. Before I started training him, he used to pull me going wherever he wants and barking upon every dog we pass through (he is aggressive towards male dogs). Rewards did not prevent my dobe from pulling. i will probably be flamed in here by using the "popping the leash" method to the extent where the dog will say, "That hurts. I promise I will not do it (pull/bark) again." You can see this method in the leerburg kennel training video.

  • At what age did you start to see any improvements? How often do they need reminders?
    I see improvements the day I used the popping the collar method. Do it consistently for even just a week. You'll see an improvement. There are times when the dog will walk ahead of you. But once you say "no," the dog will immediately go either to your side or behind you.

  • What type of collar and leash do you use? (prong, harness, flexi, etc)

    When training or walking, I use the prong collar. But even if I use the flat collar, he seldom pulls the leash. Even without a leash, as long as he is wearing the prong, he will most of the time walk on my left side.

  • What distractions are the hardest to overcome?

    stray dogs i think.


  • Are there any particular situations that you find more difficult to walk in than others?

    other dogs around.

I admit that the method i used is, in some way, a harsh method. but i took into consideration the fact that for the 3 years of my dobe's life, he was in the habit of pulling and barking towards other dogs. Moreover, if uncorrected, it might in some way, cause injury considering that it is a big dog.
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post #39 of 58 (permalink) Old 12-14-2011, 09:16 PM
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Very helpful topic! Odin is my adopted 1yr old Dobbie. He was NEVER put on a leash by his previous owner. I have been working on leash training with him. We have only had him for 5 days! So this is all new to him.

Leash training has been hard to do since he has the strength of a full grown Doberman. So far we have only been using a leather collar, He has been getting better at not tugging on the leash, but there is still ALWAYS tension on the leash. Is it time for me to get a choke or prong collar? I really dont want to use one permanently. If you start using one, do you have to continue to use one?

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post #40 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-15-2012, 01:29 AM
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Hello, I adopted my dobie from rescue four months ago. She was one year old with zero training. She did not know "sit.":-). All kidding aside she pulled like a freight train. She pulled me over and I bloodied my elbow, she pulled over my six foot friend and bloodied her knee. I enrolled her in obedience and began teaching the basics. In the meantime our walks were horrific. She would literally do helicopters in the air as if she a was a toy breed if she saw a dog, cat, or rabbit. I became totally disheartened when she flipped for a bird. I tried all of these training tools, flat collar, choke chain, easy walk harness, gentle leader, and no hands leash. Also clicker training. Initially a new tool would work, but after a short time it would be back to tug of war, or being a tree, or going in the opposite direction. I have completed three obedience classes and the instructors have been happy to see me leave. I am currently taking private lessons and the instructor suggested the prong collar. I have had dobies in the past and have always had the mistaken belief that prongs were evil. I think this training tool is working. For some bizarre reason my dog "gets it" it is as if I had been speaking a foreign language and now I am speaking English. She actually calms and collects herself when wearing the prong. And her skills are carrying over off leash in the yard and house . Distractions are improving. Horses, dogs, birds, and even cats, however those darn rabbits literally have her frothing at the mouth. Any place with rabbits is her hardest environment. Thanks for posting this thread
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post #41 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-15-2012, 01:48 AM
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Hello Odin. My private trainer fitted the prong. It needs to be tight up high on the neck and the correction is supposed to be strong and quick and release No nagging. I don't think I would have had the ability to just go buy a prong and use it correctly.
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post #42 of 58 (permalink) Old 04-18-2012, 10:03 AM
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How did you teach your Doberman to not pull on a leash? Any particular methods did you use?

Lexi has been getting increasingly better at not pulling. I often stop when the lead goes tight and she knows to come back to me, most of the time. In a larger environment I will walk in the opposite direction. On the days when she does not want to listen, I simply will not give her enough line to leave my side, she earns her freedom. She used to pull leaning into the leash with her shoulders but doesn't do that at all any more.

At what age did you start to see any improvements? How often do they need reminders?

Roughly between 5 to 7 months.

What type of collar and leash do you use? (prong, harness, flexi, etc)

Regular collar and leash. Sometimes I bring along the gentle leader.

What distractions are the hardest to overcome?

Other dogs.. She is very playful and LOVES other dogs, this is when she begins to pull rather hard.
Also, sometimes certain people she will stop to stare at, other people she will walk by without a care in the world. Not sure why.

Are there any particular situations that you find more difficult to walk in than others? (Large crowds, parks, other dogs around)

Other dogs, without a doubt. I used to let her go up to say hello to them, and recently I started not allowing it until she shows she can calm down.

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post #43 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-20-2012, 01:11 PM
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Not meaning to rattle anyones cages, seeing as I just got here but I noticed that people are using prong collars.
Why?
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post #44 of 58 (permalink) Old 07-31-2012, 10:06 PM
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I also use a prong on my young Dobe, and she also is my Service Dog In Training. She just turned a year old last week. I have tried walking with flat collar, martingale collars, and a harness with the center ring on the chest strap. I mostly use the prong now, but at times have used a small link fur saver HS.
I use my dog for hearing alerts and balance assist, so I just consider the prong as an accessory to mitigate my balance disorder.
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post #45 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-07-2012, 02:57 AM
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You don't need a prong collar.

Anyway:
[youtube=stop your dog pulling]E1fujx6vGC4[/youtube]
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post #46 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-07-2012, 06:07 AM
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how do you get a dobe and two min pins to loose leash together? Another question i have is why do all my dogs stay right by my side in public, but in our neighborhood the only way I can get them to loose leash is tire them out or use treats. This may be a stretch but can they sense that I need them to behave in public and that I really don't mind if they pull me down our street?
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post #47 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-07-2012, 07:18 PM
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How did you teach your Doberman to not pull on a leash? Any particular methods did you use?
I first put a leash on my dobe at 3 months old, and let her drag it around on the grass behind her for a week...so her leash was not foreign to her.
When I leash-walked Amy (starting with baby steps), I would talk much, with comments like "stay with DadDa"....over and over / talking her into, being by my side.
If she pulled I stopped in my tracks, and the short steps grew into normal steps, and she learned to stay by my side, through voice communication.

At what age did you start to see any improvements? How often do they need reminders?
Roughly 3.5 months...probably took less than one week for Amy to get what i wanted.

What type of collar and leash do you use? (prong, harness, flexi, etc)
- choke chain, but only low level correction
- I pup a choke chain on my 8 week old pup...and if she is biting me or stirring in bed, I put my little finger in the ring (with light tug)...and make a clicker sound, from the chain link friction and noise
- therefore, almost from day1, puppy Amy has been conditioned...to know right from wrong, from the sound of a chain click plus my voice

What distractions are the hardest to overcome?
- fire hydrants and traffic light posts...that dogs had previously marked
- I trained Amy on our dead end road (in front of our house)...no neighbor dogs
- I also trained her to ignore squirrels

Are there any particular situations that you find more difficult to walk in than others? (Large crowds, parks, other dogs around)
- other dogs can be a challenge (in younger years), and I usually avoid much using a sit/stay helps

------------Kelly & (Amy - RIP @ 11.7 y/o)

Last edited by Beaumont67; 08-07-2012 at 07:22 PM.
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post #48 of 58 (permalink) Old 02-07-2014, 12:17 PM
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How did you teach your Doberman to not pull on a leash? Any particular methods did you use?

We started off with snapping the leash when Springer pulled. He showed about 50% improvement. We then, not so smart, eased off this method bc we felt it was harsh, and moved to a "stop the walk" method when he pulled. This change I think confused him. We started going to a private trainer (shutzhund trainer who specializes in Rotts, Dobes and GSDs) and they told us to pick up the snap method again. Differences in what we did before vs. trainer recs:
-keep leash short
-keep a "U" in the leash
-walk in a circle and snap as the dog pulls if he doesn't correct
-snap needs to be QUICK

This has really worked well and now Springer keeps a loose leash right at my left side.


At what age did you start to see any improvements? How often do they need reminders?

4 mos. Springer needs reminders when there are distractions present.

What type of collar and leash do you use? (prong, harness, flexi, etc)
Just a flat collar and a nylon leash.

What distractions are the hardest to overcome?

Other dogs! Def. Although he likes people too.

Are there any particular situations that you find more difficult to walk in than others? (Large crowds, parks, other dogs around)[
Springer's favorite place to run off leash... He has the idea he should always be off leash there, that's understandable though
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post #49 of 58 (permalink) Old 06-17-2014, 10:06 AM
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Loose-leash walking is going to begin as a game.
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post #50 of 58 (permalink) Old 08-24-2015, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kratty View Post
Town Hall Topic – Loose Leash Walking
  • How did you teach your Doberman to not pull on a leash? Any particular methods did you use?
  • At what age did you start to see any improvements? How often do they need reminders?
  • What type of collar and leash do you use? (prong, harness, flexi, etc)
  • What distractions are the hardest to overcome?
  • Are there any particular situations that you find more difficult to walk in than others? (Large crowds, parks, other dogs around)
I fostered an abused 3 yr old, and she knew nothing!
I used a small show chain and leash up under her neck, and checked her whenever she tried to pass me.
I saw improvement in 3 days in heeling. Never needed a correction after she learned something.
Then she was on a plain poly collar and leash if she couldn't be off-leash.
Which distractions? Probably cars as she was alone on the streets for 3 yrs. But walking everyday she got over it quickly.
Sadly, she passed a couple of Christmases ago, but she loved everybody! My cats would sleep practically ON her in the bed or on the couch, and she raised one of my rescued kittens.

God, I miss her so much. Looking again, but will never replace her. RIP BUFFY
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