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So my hubby and I are in Israel and were supposed to only be here until March but he was just offered a really good position within his company and now they want us here for much...longer....
We are starting the process of bringing Doc over here. I was talking to some dog people at a show a couple weeks ago and they said it is illegal to import dogs into the country that are cropped and docked but I noticed dogs at the show that were cropped and docked so I was really confused. Then I found out that as long as the dog was born before July 2010, then they can come over.
Okay, so Doc is in the clear... but... this really struck a negative chord with me.

How many other countries have this law in place? I knew Israel had outlawed cropping and docking but you could still import cropped/docked dogs from other countries but now that is gone as well. WTH?

At the end of February there is a Doberman show here, I plan to attend and see what is in store for the breed here.
 

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Hmmm odd. Cropping is banned here in NZ, but you can still import cropped dogs (just can't compete in anything with 'em).
 

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Unfortunately the animal rights groups overseas are getting more and more teeth in regards to C/D regulations. Now this depends entirely on the country but... If the show you saw was an International show, cropped and docked dogs are usually allowed to participate. However they are generally barred from regional and national level shows. Again it depends on the country and I'm not sure about Israel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
The show I was at was international but there were no dobes there... I'm still trying to figure out how it works here in Israel. I think it may have been a show for only spitz breeds, herding breeds and hounds. The breed that was cropped/docked there was the black Russian terrier... how exactly they fit in there, I'm not too sure. Another show occurred that I didn't attend because of the weather but there were 10 dobes there and a Gem'Givveeon male took second place. He had cropped/docked ears but was born before July 2010. I was so bummed I missed that show... I would have been so happy to see some Dobermans!
I plan to ask a lot of questions at the show in February... I can't believe it is illegal to even import cropped/docked dogs.
 

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You cannot bring cropped/docked dogs into Switzerland. We had a poster on here looking for a NA dog with natural tail and ears to bring into her family in Switzerland. She was having a hard time finding a good breeder who would leave a tail on for her.
 

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It's such a stupid law, and has no benifit to dogs what so ever. Nothing like loosing more of your rights because someone wants to force thier beliefs on you.
 

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We have pretty much the same restrictions as NZ here is Aust.

From memory the restrictive crop/dock laws only just came in in Israel last year...or was it the year before?

What part of Israel are you in? I stayed in Jerusalem (Mevaseret) when I was there. I miss the falafels, shawarma and burekkas so much....best food anywhere!
 

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curious as to where the shows are being held in Israel, I haven't been there in years, but was amazed at how few dogs I saw, but tons of cats, everywhere!
 

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This is a prime example of just how dangerous the cropped and docked laws are - Government trying to impose and destroy breed standards. America MUST hold out and uphold the standard of our breed at all cost. The AR groups are just waiting for the law to cave in here and then they can go after purebred dogs, dog shows will become a thinf of the past because they are cruel BLAH BLAH BLAH.

We must stand for our breed standard because next you won't be able to import Dobermans, GSD, Rotties, Akita, and on and on it goes.
 

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This is a prime example of just how dangerous the cropped and docked laws are - Government trying to impose and destroy breed standards. America MUST hold out and uphold the standard of our breed at all cost. The AR groups are just waiting for the law to cave in here and then they can go after purebred dogs, dog shows will become a thinf of the past because they are cruel BLAH BLAH BLAH.

We must stand for our breed standard because next you won't be able to import Dobermans, GSD, Rotties, Akita, and on and on it goes.
This is far fetched Susan. I get that you are pro c/d and that is fine, but I think it is silly to say that c/d bans are so dangerous. What part of this is dangerous? What dogs are harmed by not allowing c/d dogs to be imported? Can't import a c/d dog? Well, if you still want a Doberman, go with a breeder that leaves them natural. Don't want a natural Doberman? Fine, there are other breeds for you. I guess everyone has to live by the rules of the country they live in.
 

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Another show occurred that I didn't attend because of the weather but there were 10 dobes there and a Gem'Givveeon male took second place. He had cropped/docked ears but was born before July 2010.
That was Gem'Givveeon Arktur who finished CAC;CACIB;BOB;BIG-2 on day.Arktur is my Nika's littermate.
If you wish, i can find out for you exact detailed info on the law in Israel from Arkturs owner.

This is a good list for Cropping and docking regulations by country, but Israel is not included
Info Library > Cropping and docking
 

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This is far fetched Susan. I get that you are pro c/d and that is fine, but I think it is silly to say that c/d bans are so dangerous. What part of this is dangerous? What dogs are harmed by not allowing c/d dogs to be imported? Can't import a c/d dog? Well, if you still want a Doberman, go with a breeder that leaves them natural. Don't want a natural Doberman? Fine, there are other breeds for you. I guess everyone has to live by the rules of the country they live in.
Lord Naoshige's wall:

"Matters of great concern should be treated lightly." "Matters of small concern should be treated seriously."

It all starts with something.

I for one am very concerned when anyone trys to take away freedoms and create laws.
 

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This is far fetched Susan. I get that you are pro c/d and that is fine, but I think it is silly to say that c/d bans are so dangerous. What part of this is dangerous? What dogs are harmed by not allowing c/d dogs to be imported? Can't import a c/d dog? Well, if you still want a Doberman, go with a breeder that leaves them natural. Don't want a natural Doberman? Fine, there are other breeds for you. I guess everyone has to live by the rules of the country they live in.
I don't think she's meaning it would be dangerous as far as the welfare of the dogs go. I think it's more along the lines that allowing more government control = opening the flood gates for disaster when it comes to dog ownership and our rights. It's like with BSL. Legislators write laws against bully breeds as a gateway to see what they can get away with. They know starting with bully breeds is an easy way to gain control and support because so many people hate those dogs and just the name strikes fear and hatred in the eyes of many people. Well, sure enough, not too long ago there was a bill introduced in San Antonio or Austin I think that actually stated any dog over 25 lbs that a person thought was vicious(could be just by barking or looks), could be ordered to stay in an enclosure and not be allowed at any public off leash place(including off leash dog sports). See, this is what happens when people don't care when a bill or ban comes out if it doesn't directly affect them, but in the grand scheme of things it definitely could, if they open their mind and think about all the variables involved.

Cropping and docking ban has been passed, now it's illegal to import these dogs, what's next? Legislators aren't going to stop. Eventually there could be a bill or ban of any breeding or owning of these dogs. Then, congratulations, look what the people who just had to force their personal opinions onto others really accomplished. Now ironically, your very own rights have been stripped of you when it comes to the very dogs you love. More government control when it comes to dogs is not good.



This is taken from Peta's website of their position on pit bulls, you can read exactly what they are trying to accomplish, total elimination of the ownership of ANY dog. This is what would happen if mandatory speuter laws were passed. Some dog owners need to get over their personal beliefs and views and stop trying to take away the rights of others whose views they don't agree with. It's a very dangerous game.

"Some pit bull fanciers out there seem to think that PETA is "against" pit bulls because we don't oppose breed-specific measures to address what is obviously a breed-specific crisis. Au contraire. If someone proposed a ban on breeding Labrador retrievers or Chihuahuas or poodles (you get the picture - any dog), we'd be for those too. That's because we don't think any dogs should be brought into the world as long as millions are dying for lack of homes in animal shelters and on the streets every year.

Millions, people. Millions of dogs just like the ones you share your homes with have to be euthanized because too many people fail to spay and neuter their animals and choose to buy from breeders and pet stores instead of saving lives by adopting from animal shelters. Wouldn't we be derelict in our duty if we didn't support laws that would alleviate suffering and reduce those numbers? If those laws saved just one animal from suffering a miserable life or a painful death, wouldn't they be worth it?"
 

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I don't think she's meaning it would be dangerous as far as the welfare of the dogs go. I think it's more along the lines that allowing more government control = opening the flood gates for disaster when it comes to dog ownership and our rights. It's like with BSL. Legislators write laws against bully breeds as a gateway to see what they can get away with. They know starting with bully breeds is an easy way to gain control and support because so many people hate those dogs and just the name strikes fear and hatred in the eyes of many people. Well, sure enough, not too long ago there was a bill introduced in San Antonio or Austin I think that actually stated any dog over 25 lbs that a person thought was vicious(could be just by barking or looks), could be ordered to stay in an enclosure and not be allowed at any public off leash place(including off leash dog sports). See, this is what happens when people don't care when a bill or ban comes out if it doesn't directly affect them, but in the grand scheme of things it definitely could, if they open their mind and think about all the variables involved.

Cropping and docking ban has been passed, now it's illegal to import these dogs, what's next? Legislators aren't going to stop. Eventually there could be a bill or ban of any breeding or owning of these dogs. Then, congratulations, look what the people who just had to force their personal opinions onto others really accomplished. Now ironically, your very own rights have been stripped of you when it comes to dogs. More government control when it comes to dogs is not good.



This is taken from Peta's website of their position on pit bulls, you can read exactly what they are trying to accomplish, total elimination of the ownership of ANY dog. This is what would happen if mandatory speuter laws were passed. Some dog owners need to get over their personal beliefs and views and stop trying to take away the rights of others whose views they don't agree with. It's a very dangerous game.

"Some pit bull fanciers out there seem to think that PETA is "against" pit bulls because we don't oppose breed-specific measures to address what is obviously a breed-specific crisis. Au contraire. If someone proposed a ban on breeding Labrador retrievers or Chihuahuas or poodles (you get the picture - any dog), we'd be for those too. That's because we don't think any dogs should be brought into the world as long as millions are dying for lack of homes in animal shelters and on the streets every year.

Millions, people. Millions of dogs just like the ones you share your homes with have to be euthanized because too many people fail to spay and neuter their animals and choose to buy from breeders and pet stores instead of saving lives by adopting from animal shelters. Wouldn't we be derelict in our duty if we didn't support laws that would alleviate suffering and reduce those numbers? If those laws saved just one animal from suffering a miserable life or a painful death, wouldn't they be worth it?"
Bingo! :nicejob:
 

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I don't think she's meaning it would be dangerous as far as the welfare of the dogs go. I think it's more along the lines that allowing more government control = opening the flood gates for disaster when it comes to dog ownership and our rights. It's like with BSL. Legislators write laws against bully breeds as a gateway to see what they can get away with. They know starting with bully breeds is an easy way to gain control and support because so many people hate those dogs and just the name strikes fear and hatred in the eyes of many people. Well, sure enough, not too long ago there was a bill introduced in San Antonio or Austin I think that actually stated any dog over 25 lbs that a person thought was vicious(could be just by barking or looks), could be ordered to stay in an enclosure and not be allowed at any public off leash place(including off leash dog sports). See, this is what happens when people don't care when a bill or ban comes out if it doesn't directly affect them, but in the grand scheme of things it definitely could, if they open their mind and think about all the variables involved.

Cropping and docking ban has been passed, now it's illegal to import these dogs, what's next? Legislators aren't going to stop. Eventually there could be a bill or ban of any breeding or owning of these dogs. Then, congratulations, look what the people who just had to force their personal opinions onto others really accomplished. Now ironically, your very own rights have been stripped of you when it comes to dogs. More government control when it comes to dogs is not good.



This is taken from Peta's website of their position on pit bulls, you can read exactly what they are trying to accomplish, total elimination of the ownership of ANY dog. This is what would happen if mandatory speuter laws were passed. Some dog owners need to get over their personal beliefs and views and stop trying to take away the rights of others whose views they don't agree with. It's a very dangerous game.

"Some pit bull fanciers out there seem to think that PETA is "against" pit bulls because we don't oppose breed-specific measures to address what is obviously a breed-specific crisis. Au contraire. If someone proposed a ban on breeding Labrador retrievers or Chihuahuas or poodles (you get the picture - any dog), we'd be for those too. That's because we don't think any dogs should be brought into the world as long as millions are dying for lack of homes in animal shelters and on the streets every year.

Millions, people. Millions of dogs just like the ones you share your homes with have to be euthanized because too many people fail to spay and neuter their animals and choose to buy from breeders and pet stores instead of saving lives by adopting from animal shelters. Wouldn't we be derelict in our duty if we didn't support laws that would alleviate suffering and reduce those numbers? If those laws saved just one animal from suffering a miserable life or a painful death, wouldn't they be worth it?"
Your Opinion totally resonates with me, working in a vet clinic I see many dogs being put down for No Good Reason. " Vicious" dogs have nothing to do with the breed and the fact the government tries to control our lives to the extent of controlling the TYPE of dog we can own is mind boggling. I understand people against cropping and docking but I also know many of those people would be very offended if I told them that feeding there dogs to the point of morbid obesity is animal cruelty in my eyes. JMO people have opinions until it directly effects them than generally that opinion changes.
 

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Bingo! :nicejob:
I don't want to get into an abortion debate but it's a good point. Pro-choice doesn't necessarily mean pro abortion. There are many people against abortions that are pro-choice because they understand the dangers posed when allowing more government control and stripping away our rights. Do you think if abortion is banned everywhere that people will stop getting them? You'd be real naive. Same with a blanket c/d ban. People aren't going to stop. Why force them to have to do hack jobs in their basements in unsterile environments? AR radicals don't realize that their imposing their personal opinions onto the group as a whole can have very negative effects, and in turn creates more abuse. Do you think that in the cities where pit bulls are banned every single pit bull lover is abiding by that law? Yeaaaah no.
 

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(quote) don't think she's meaning it would be dangerous as far as the welfare of the dogs go. I think it's more along the lines that allowing more government control = opening the flood gates for disaster when it comes to dog ownership and our rights. It's like with BSL. (quote)

It is definitley not far fetched - If the Government actually wins in America and can stop cropping an docking here then it actually means the Government now controls our breed standard and the freedom to maintain our dogs as a cropped and docked breed is gone. That then opens up the next door the AR groups want to lead us down and that is the banning of all "working breeds" that are being deemend "dangerous" all over the world.

The Government IMHO needs to worry about solving hunger, unemployment, economy, inflation, crime, etc before it has time to take on breed standards. If you think it is not all tied together in the AR minds then you might want to follow a little more closely the BSL issue that come across the country every day.

The real issue is not about cropping and docking but about our rights as a breed club to uphold our standard. Have you ever known anything the govt got involved in that did not end up costing us more money - watsted resources and laws that can't be enforced???
 

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You would think that Israel would have better things to worry about other than C/D dogs.
If the present course of events continues, you could see C/D laws coming to a country near you. Cass Sunstein, the present presidential administation's reguatory czar has assisted PETA type groups to pass such laws in the past. This is the guy that thinks all animals should have a tax payer funded lawer so they can sue their owners.
Just sayin'
 

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In another forum Susan said that it would be to the detriment of the actual quality of the dog I thought? Perhaps I misread that. I will check again. Or Susan can you clarify if you believe that IF c/d were banned that the quality of the dogs would be less?

As for the standard of the breed and government legislation, would an analogy be that Pit Bulls were bred as fighting dogs and now dog fighting is illegal?
 
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