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"I have gotten kinda nervous to say anything these days, cause i have noticed sometimes people think its their opinion that counts and no one elses, and if you disagree then your a bad person."

Without getting political, I think that is a _major_ problem in America these days. People seem to have forgotten that honorable people can disagree without being disagreeable. Just because someone doesn't agree with my opinion doesn't make them a bad person, it just makes them wrong. (if I used smiley faces, I'd put one here. Being a Usenet veteran I usually use a <g>, which means I'm grinning, as in joking)

Your point is well taken and I agree with what you said. As long as no one here criticises me for leaving Karma's ears natural, I won't criticise them for cropping. I have my reasons for leaving them natural as I'm sure others have their reasons for cropping them. That being said, I would have a _large_ problem if laws were passed here in the U.S. to prevent docking/cropping.
 

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morrmar said:
Your point is well taken and I agree with what you said. As long as no one here criticises me for leaving Karma's ears natural, I won't criticise them for cropping. I have my reasons for leaving them natural as I'm sure others have their reasons for cropping them. That being said, I would have a _large_ problem if laws were passed here in the U.S. to prevent docking/cropping.
I second this! I do however wish that all natural dogs were acceptable in the show ring here. I do not think there should be a ban, I think the reprocussions of a ban could be disasterous AND a ban on cropping opens the doors to too many other things.
 

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Although I really prefer a C&D Dobe, if a nat. needed a home, fostering, anything, I wouldn't hesitate. However, I would not seek out and buy an undocked Doberman. Unless the dog is older, ears are my choice and will be dropped even if I have to drive 200 miles to an experience vet. But, like I said earlier, if a nat. was in need, he/she'd be welcomed in my home.

As for cleanliness, cropped ears seem to get dirtier...as in dirt, but never infection. My Boxer and Doberman went crazy for a period of time and decided that digging a hole to China was a spectacular idea. I bet I went rhough a box of Q-Tips every month. Anyway, never had any experience with infection with a cropped dog, but my aunt used to have Beagles and (amoung other problems) had terrible ears.

Now to pain. Someone mentioned earlier that the vets in New England charge an arm and a leg for a crop because they believe it's painful. Not only do I think it's a rip off, as many other people said, but I think that statement is false. Although I bought my Dobe already cropped, I went through the whole experience with my Boxer and was bouncing off the walls from start to finish. Never scared or hurting when the stitches were still in, during the mid-process of taping, or when I started taping myself (didn't like the vet's method).

I think the banning of cropping and/or docking is rediculous. As many people said on here, it should be the owner's choice. And, as someone said already, I also fear that if widespread banning will only lead the idiots to take a pair of scissors to a dog.

Appearance of a cropped dog. Be it Dobermans, Boxers, Pit Bulls, Russian Black Terriers (super funky, I love 'em), or Great Danes I simply think they look much more regal. By removing the big ears you can see the head and jaw structue and it seems to elongate the neck. A nice crop never looks bad, IMO. Unfortunately, people cross the street to get away from my Doberman, too. Little do they know, he'll roll over to a Boston Terrier.
 

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well my boy is all natural, ears, tail and dew claws and although visually i prefer a docked tail it makes no odds to me that he has a tail.

I think like everything else it boils down to personal preference - I personally prefer natural to cropped ears but I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone who loves dogs would not have a doberman just because they were natural. I have a doberman because I love the breed, their temperament - not because they have docked tails.

One important point - In the United Kingdom the law is that docking is banned HOWEVER if the dog is to be a working dog then the law allows docking simply for health reasons.
 

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I dont' believe it should be mandatory not to crop or dock. I think it should be up to the reputable breeder and or purchaser.
For myself absolutely no I would not own a dobe without being docked, maybe the ears could be left if it was a rescue, but I would want the breeder to dock and crop if I was the buyer of a pup. Just as black dobes are my preference. I would not own a blue or red. Just a personal preference.
 

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For myself absolutely no I would not own a dobe without being docked, maybe the ears could be left if it was a rescue, but I would want the breeder to dock and crop if I was the buyer of a pup. Just as black dobes are my preference. I would not own a blue or red. Just a personal preference.
Waiting - Is it only because of personal preference that you wouldn't own an undocked dog?
 

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I love Leo and his floppy ears, but with out his tail docked, I don't know, I think it would be more for MY safety than anything! That tail would be a deadly weapon!! :)
 

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We were talking about the number of amputations done on working police K9's at the Sch club the other day. Apparently it is more common than you are lead to believe. I think tail injuries in hunting and working dogs happen frequently, and that is why many breeds are docked.
As for cropping, it is aesthetic. That being said I prefer cropped. I have not seen puppies have issues after cropping and do not think it is cruel. I would say it is much more painful and invasive to do a spay than an ear crop. Yet, I still advocate spaying pet bitches.
Maybe after they stop circumcision without pain killers on human babies, or even piercing babies' ears.. then we can move on as to whether cropping and docking dogs is inhumane.
 
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In all honesty I do not like the natural look on a dobie. The natural look completely changes the character. Makes a dobie look like a hound dog....ugh. I apologize to those who like the natural look, no offense, it's just not for me.

Someday maybe we'll map the entire dobie genome, and genetically engineer out all of the flaws and engineer the docked ears in so no surgery is needed!

I really don't like the docking process, etc and I do have a tough time getting my head around how we can do that to these wonderful creatures. I guess I'm a bit conflicted on this front still.
 

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Yes it is just a personal preference. There tails seem so long and out of proportion to their body, in my minds eye.
That's my feeling. This breed was "designed" for a docked tail from day one. IMO, a long tail changes their entire outline, and not for the better. I *might* be able to get used to drop ears (although I wouldn't be happy about it) but I'd NEVER accept those tails on a doberman.

If it came to that, I'd be thinking more and more seriously about another Malinois.
 

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I would prefer a tail instead of a nub, I think a rudder (full tail) helps when running and making quick turns but is a pain in the butt when knocking everything off the coffee table:) As for the ears - the docking looks good but I figure the man upstairs knows what he is doing better then me......
 

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"I have gotten kinda nervous to say anything these days, cause i have noticed sometimes people think its their opinion that counts and no one elses, and if you disagree then your a bad person."

Without getting political, I think that is a _major_ problem in America these days. People seem to have forgotten that honorable people can disagree without being disagreeable. Just because someone doesn't agree with my opinion doesn't make them a bad person, it just makes them wrong. (if I used smiley faces, I'd put one here. Being a Usenet veteran I usually use a <g>, which means I'm grinning, as in joking)

Your point is well taken and I agree with what you said. As long as no one here criticises me for leaving Karma's ears natural, I won't criticise them for cropping. I have my reasons for leaving them natural as I'm sure others have their reasons for cropping them. That being said, I would have a _large_ problem if laws were passed here in the U.S. to prevent docking/cropping.

I like my dogs cropped and docked but I respect those who don't. I agree with your post on respecting others opinions. My motto is to live and let live. As long as people come here with the best interest of their dogs in mind they should be able to have an opinion without having their heads handed to them.

Robin and Rex
 

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well, a few months have gone by and my opinion hasn't changed. I respect anyone's right to choose and hope they get what they want. Me? I'll take a dobe in any form, tail and all.
 

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Ditto the previous post a Dobe is a Dobe a tail doesn't change it's personality
just it's look and it was mostly the personality of the breed I fell for the look came second.


Mo xx
 

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I'm a glutton for punishment - part of me has been wondering if I should try out a tail sometime soon... of course I am full up on pup, so it would have to be a senior if I take anything in, and only after Tyler is gone...
 
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