Would you buy/own an undocked dobe??

5999 Views 80 Replies 35 Participants Last post by Reds, Dec 16, 2007

adoradobe

Discussion Starter · Jul 16, 2006

I am just enquiring as i'm sure most of you are aware docking is now banned in a lot of countries in Europe. I was curious to know if you'd still own the breed or would you move onto another breed?

sorry if this has been posted before.

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DreamDoby

· #21 · Jul 17, 2006

The ears I would love either way. But I still prefer the traditional c/d look. Having a docked tail is something that was a plus for me. But if it came down to it, I wouldn't turn my head on the breed that I love the most because of the way they are. I could adapt. I wouldn't like it at first, but their personality has a way of shining through. Some extra whippings and looks of love, and I would just be "beat" with admiration for them.

Who needs coffee on a coffee table?:tongue23:

TracyJo

· #22 · Jul 17, 2006

LeighaG81 said:
Quick question since I've always wondered this about cropping...till what age is it okay to do it till? Some people say a year, others don't know and since I'm hanging out with so many wonderful, dobe pros here I thought I'd ask.

Generally ears are cropped between 8-12 weeks. There have been a couple people here that have had their pups successfully cropped as old at 16 weeks. I truly doubt there would be much success in cropping much later than that and certainly not with a pup as old as 1 year.
The older the pup is the less of a chance the ears will stand and the more profound the bleeding.
BiB had her 9 month old pup recropped (his ears look so good now!) but if I remember correctly, his recovery after the second crop at the older age was not nearly as swift and easy as the first time at the younger age.

waiting

· #23 · Jul 17, 2006

For me the tail must be docked
Either way for the ears as long as there not huge like dumbos and in proportion, once I saw a dog and the ear looked like two ears folded over together but it was one HUGE ear.

LapDog

· #24 · Jul 17, 2006

Generally ears are cropped between 8-12 weeks. There have been a couple people here that have had their pups successfully cropped as old at 16 weeks. I truly doubt there would be much success in cropping much later than that and certainly not with a pup as old as 1 year.
The older the pup is the less of a chance the ears will stand and the more profound the bleeding.
BiB had her 9 month old pup recropped (his ears look so good now!) but if I remember correctly, his recovery after the second crop at the older age was not nearly as swift and easy as the first time at the younger

and the only reason recrops still stand at that age...is cause they have been in the process of posting ever since 7 weeks or whatever...so the ear might have not had the right shape for the ears to stand but then when they are recropped they may usually already stand b.c of the different shape...
If you were to crop at an older age...I doubt they would ever stand since the process of posting while they are growing is important to get them to stand

LeighaG81

· #25 · Jul 17, 2006

Thanks everyone. I know many vets in or around New England stand against it these days and charge outrageous amounts to do it simply because they feel as if it a very painful procedure. Cropped or not cropped, I love the breed regardless of it.

morrmar

· #26 · Jul 17, 2006

While I see a practical reason for docking the tail, I can't say the same for cropping ears. If you've ever seen how long an undocked dobe's tail is, you know that it can clear a coffee table with one swipe.

Ears on the other hand are more a cosmetic/vanity thing than anything else, at least imo.

LeighaG81

· #27 · Jul 17, 2006

morrmar said:
While I see a practical reason for docking the tail, I can't say the same for cropping ears. If you've ever seen how long an undocked dobe's tail is, you know that it can clear a coffee table with one swipe.

Ears on the other hand are more a cosmetic/vanity thing than anything else, at least imo.

One thing that *is* a plus for cropping a dog's ears (whether it be pitbull, boxer, dobe...you name it) is simply for cleaner ears-any dog with large, droppy ears are constantly suceptible to yeast infections as well as other bacterial infections in their ears. Cropping, however, drastically reduces the problem to be minimal.

crxman321

· #28 · Jul 17, 2006 (Edited)

Sounds like the Vets you know in New England arent worth a crap anyways if their gonna charge outrageous amounts for Ear Cropping just b.c they find it painful. If they believe its some horrible experinece they shouldnt do Crops period. But they want your money so that makes sense. You gotta do your homework before picking a Vet The best thing is to go a Reptuable Breeder. I think the choice to have Tails and Ears done should be left to the Owner. Dobermanns are so very Special and Unique that Banning Ear/Tails just takes away The idea of what they were Bred for *IMO*Its the Tradition the Look. A good Crop on a Dobe is Fantastic. Dobe/ Rott owners have more responsibility in a way I think then other Breeds. When someone sees a Dobe with a terrible Tape Job and so on that doesnt help or when that one Ear just wont stand for anything.

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elly

· #29 · Jul 17, 2006

It is amazing how quick you get used to the natural look! My last dobie have a tail and his ears, and I liked it very much, the way he waggled his tail. All my dobes have their natural ears and I have had never problems with it.

Here in Holland its the law no cropping otherwise no examinations trials or shows. For myself it never was a big deal, I like their caracter very much and that don't changed if they are cropped or not cropped!

Here in Holland it was a big discussion sometimes on dutch forums from the one pro and against. Some people buy their dogs in other countries were they still cropped.

waiting

· #30 · Jul 17, 2006

The one thing I have found with the ears not being cropped is that the non knowledgeable public in reference to Dobermans are less intimidated with the ears not done. People have expressed to me they think it gives them a softer look and less intimidating. Not that I care in terms of what they think, but just to add an interesting point that I have definitely been hearing. Has anyone else been running into this mentality with the ears been left alone. They think the ears makes the difference in being good doggy or vicious.

LeighaG81

· #31 · Jul 17, 2006

waiting said:
The one thing I have found with the ears not being cropped is that the non knowledgeable public in reference to Dobermans are less intimidated with the ears not done. People have expressed to me they think it gives them a softer look and less intimidating. Not that I care in terms of what they think, but just to add an interesting point that I have definitely been hearing. Has anyone else been running into this mentality with the ears been left alone. They think the ears makes the difference in being good doggy or vicious.

It's sad but it's the typical ignorance of society...same goes with pits and boxers. If they have uncropped ears, people aren't as scared of them. I've always wondered why too, but it's such a common thing that we all see day to day.

crxman321

· #32 · Jul 17, 2006

I've also heard lots of people talking about how they dont look intimidating and the they look like a hounddog without the ears done.

DreamDoby

· #33 · Jul 17, 2006

A lot of people find them more approachable with nat. ears. I get it all the time with Harmony being nat. They will shy from Asher and come to her. But she will also be mistaken frequently for a weim. like I have mentioned before. Not something that I care for.

I don't think I would ever go to a vet that charged high prices for crops because they felt that it was painful. What are they doing? The vets around here mainly don't do it bacause they aren't experienced and won't do the public an injustice to do a bad crop. They still appreciate a good crop and love the look and don't think if done right it is painful. My poodle hates having his ears cleaned. He will scream at times when they get bad. We clean them weekly. I won't stop doing it because he needs to have it kept up. Which do you think is more painful? A few years back I saw a nat. dobie in the vets office who got its ear caught in the chain link fence playing and tore it in half playing. He had to have it stitched together again. There are pros and cons to everything, and no side is completely right from the other side.

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TracyJo

· #34 · Jul 17, 2006

I have to agree with CRX here. He makes a great point - using their "opposition" to cropping/docking to inflate their prices is a crock. Sounds more like an excuse to make more money to me...

ObnoxiousDobermanDinger

· #35 · Jul 17, 2006

LeighaG81 said:
It's sad but it's the typical ignorance of society...same goes with pits and boxers. If they have uncropped ears, people aren't as scared of them. I've always wondered why too, but it's such a common thing that we all see day to day.

What's there to wonder? Flaccid, cute ears remind people of puppies and harmless bunny rabbits.

Personally, I prefer the cropped ears. It makes them look more sophisticated and vicious. When I'm walking in the park at night, I want any would-be mugger to know that I don't have a Weimaraner on the end of that leash, but a bloodthirsty, 80 lbs of relentless man-killing potential. You know, but that's just me talking.

TracyJo

· #36 · Jul 18, 2006

ObnoxiousDobermanDinger said:
What's there to wonder? Flaccid, cute ears remind people of puppies and harmless bunny rabbits.

Personally, I prefer the cropped ears. It makes them look more sophisticated and vicious. When I'm walking in the park at night, I want any would-be mugger to know that I don't have a Weimaraner on the end of that leash, but a bloodthirsty, 80 lbs of relentless man-killing potential. You know, but that's just me talking.

But that's just the point - Any Dobe reguardless if they have ears and a tail or not, will respond to a would be mugger in the same way. I can guarantee, that if a mugger got close enough to notice my dog had her natural ears, he would be too close and Chi would react.

VegasDobe

· #37 · Jul 18, 2006 (Edited)

TracyJo said:
But that's just the point - Any Dobe reguardless if they have ears and a tail or not, will respond to a would be mugger in the same way. I can guarantee, that if a mugger got close enough to notice my dog had her natural ears, he would be too close and Chi would react.

lol not taking sides but that kinda goes with what he said. The guy would have to be that close to know yours is a doberman with nat ears.....with the cropped ears he prob wouldnt need to be as close to realize whats on that leash.

Basically hes saying the crop is a dead giveaway.

TracyJo

· #38 · Jul 18, 2006

Okay then, let me rephrase that... Any would be mugger that got close enough to notice a dogs ears (cropped or not) would be too close. These dogs have an amazing sense of people and their character. Last night on a walk, we passed the very crowded Airman's Club - Chi was much more aware of the people around us than I was. She knew people were behind us, approaching us or off in the bushes to the side of us (God only knows what they were doing! LOL) before I did and almost certainly before they realized she was there.
Yes, I agree that a cropped Doberman has a more distinct and even "aggressive" appearance than a natural - but on the same hand, I truly doubt that their "aggressive" stereotype/image would diminish much if any if cropping was banned. It was their actions that earned their stereotype, not their appearance so much. OTOH, maybe it would change. Maybe the idiots out there that want a Dobe for no other reason than bragging that they own a blood thirsty man killer would be so put off by their new, natural appearance they would start lauding another breed. Subsequently, fewer idiots would own Dobes and those of us who know and appreciate the breed for things other than the stereotype they earned in the 70's could go about damage control and present to the public the truly wonderful, deserving, loyal, intelligent and yes, protective, not aggressive dogs that we have

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Zucker

· #39 · Jul 18, 2006

and, you're assuming the mugler is dog savvy and would recognize the dobe up close for what it is just uncropped

I've had both cropped and uncropped dobes out in public, and the general public out there, no doubt about it two completely opposite reactions! With the cropped I literally had people crossing the street to the other side walk, people refusing to get in the elevator with us, one guy in the condo literally jumped and screamed and tucked himself up against the wall (I am not exagurating!). There were the odd few who would say, oh I love dobermans can I say hi to him, but the over whelming reaction was fear and distrust.

When I had the uncropped dobe with me, while some people would still be fearful (some people are afraid of big dogs regardless of what it is), it wasn't the same sort of reaction. Some people would start up conversations, oh what a pretty dog, she listens so well, what is she? Not too many people knew she was a dobe. When I told them, some would just say oh really?, some would say oh.. and stop petting her

Don't underestimate the lack of dog knowledge in the general public. You might look at an uncropped dobe and think, duuuh, ofcourse it's a dobe! Other people just see a large houndy looking mutt.

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VegasDobe

· #40 · Jul 18, 2006

Well sorry I dont go to parks that are that dark then. I wouldnt put myself in that postion. The parks I go to still have lighting, dim lighting but lighting none the less. So you would be able to tell a cropped from a nat. Im sorry I should have thought about other places other than my own, to put with what he was saying.

I wasnt saying anything about looking aggressive. Most people(outside of dobe owners) that think they know what dobermans look like,tend to think of the traditional look. (at least here in the USA). Sorry if you took what i said as some sort of smart remark. I dont think anyone would disagree that the guy has not proved himself to be a good dobe owner. I also was not going there either. Again, sorry.

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