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Have you thought about counseling Tom? If you can get your emotions in check you'll both be happier.
when is it too late?
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Tom -
Have you tried channeling the aggression? Play some rougher games like tug of war. I know lots of people tell you never to teach that game to aggressive breeds, but I think that's a bunch of bull. As long as you keep control of the game, is great fun. The dog has to know commands like "break" and "leave it". When the game gets too rough or you get tired, just "break". Also break every so often just to establish control Tug of war with a big dobie is SO much fun and will wear you out. Great way to get rid of frustrations, play-bond with King, build his confidence (let him win some), and work on control. If he doesn't break when you tell him to (and you're sure he knows what "break" means), just drop your end, walk away and ignore him. (most dobes can't stand that). He'll want to play more, will quickly learn if he breaks when you ask him, will get more play/treat/whatever. Be sure to end rough play sessions with you taking the toy/rope and putting it away. Gives the "I'm in charge" message.
Dobies are great about helping you discharge frustrations, angers. Just find a way to do it in a positive, playful manner, and betting you'll find things are looking better every day.
Good luck.
Have you tried channeling the aggression? Play some rougher games like tug of war. I know lots of people tell you never to teach that game to aggressive breeds, but I think that's a bunch of bull. As long as you keep control of the game, is great fun. The dog has to know commands like "break" and "leave it". When the game gets too rough or you get tired, just "break". Also break every so often just to establish control Tug of war with a big dobie is SO much fun and will wear you out. Great way to get rid of frustrations, play-bond with King, build his confidence (let him win some), and work on control. If he doesn't break when you tell him to (and you're sure he knows what "break" means), just drop your end, walk away and ignore him. (most dobes can't stand that). He'll want to play more, will quickly learn if he breaks when you ask him, will get more play/treat/whatever. Be sure to end rough play sessions with you taking the toy/rope and putting it away. Gives the "I'm in charge" message.
Dobies are great about helping you discharge frustrations, angers. Just find a way to do it in a positive, playful manner, and betting you'll find things are looking better every day.
Good luck.
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Harvey was a rescue dog and was abused physically and emotionally. He was only 5 months old when we brought him home and many people scared the crap outta me an michale saying that he will never be a normal dog and turn out agressive. We didnt wan to give up and i we fell in love with Harvey at 1st sight. We wanted to give him a happ life.
After much searching we found a greta guy who worked with me & michael and Harvey slowly increasing his confidnec and getting him to do many things we never thought possible.
When we brought Harvey home for the 1st time. I wouldnt have blamed him if he had bit me. He was terrified and backed into a corner and if i was abused like him and someone canme towards me i would have bit them too. But he never did (even at his most scared times).
He is now a well ajusted fantastic dog and suprises each day woth something new.( he has just started smiling) and i thank my lucky stars everyday ~ i feel the luckiest person alive to have a dog like him.
What im trying to get to is that well done for not giving up on your Dobie.its such a huge reward wghen they come out the other side ..its tough but it can be done ~good luck
After much searching we found a greta guy who worked with me & michael and Harvey slowly increasing his confidnec and getting him to do many things we never thought possible.
When we brought Harvey home for the 1st time. I wouldnt have blamed him if he had bit me. He was terrified and backed into a corner and if i was abused like him and someone canme towards me i would have bit them too. But he never did (even at his most scared times).
He is now a well ajusted fantastic dog and suprises each day woth something new.( he has just started smiling) and i thank my lucky stars everyday ~ i feel the luckiest person alive to have a dog like him.
What im trying to get to is that well done for not giving up on your Dobie.its such a huge reward wghen they come out the other side ..its tough but it can be done ~good luck
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Well, i am VERY happy to say that king is doing SOOOOOOO much better. The amount of time it takes for king to be comfortable with someone has dropped from 10+ min, to less than 2 min. he no longer nips when he is scared, he doesnt bark or lunge at strage people, he is even letting stragers get close enough to kiss him(which happened about 45 min ago). He is happier, which makes me happier and everyone is happy. I have been working on staying calm, which i have been doing pretty well(well, i think i am), and i think that helps king a lot.
what am i doing to achieve this you ask?
I am simpley asking people if they would like to give king some treats. I then explain that he is a bit skittish around people he doesnt know, and ask them to put their hand out and let him make the move. when he does, they give him a treat, they begin to pat him, they win his trust and he is their friend. after 2 or 3 encounters, he goes to people without even a bit of hesitation.
thanks for all the support guys. i really needed a place to vent my feelings. i apprecaite all the responses.
TomAndKing
what am i doing to achieve this you ask?
I am simpley asking people if they would like to give king some treats. I then explain that he is a bit skittish around people he doesnt know, and ask them to put their hand out and let him make the move. when he does, they give him a treat, they begin to pat him, they win his trust and he is their friend. after 2 or 3 encounters, he goes to people without even a bit of hesitation.
thanks for all the support guys. i really needed a place to vent my feelings. i apprecaite all the responses.
TomAndKing
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Excellent news Tom! So happy for both you and King, keep up the awesome work!!!! I did the same thing with Chi last week... Took her to a local pet shop and let kids feed her treats everyone had a blast but today on our walk I noticed that every time we passed a kid she would try to follow them LOL I wonder if she now thinks that little people are made of hot dogs LOL
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Thanks.
Chi probably will maul the kids...with kisses, to get her goodies. Pyper, lilarrows dog, is probably the friendliest dog ever. she just wants to love every kid she comes across. I think it is good for king to see Pyper being so social. Im sure it will encourage him to come even farther out of his shell. Today when lilarrow and i were walking our dogs there were some losers(who broke into lilarrows place and stole some stuff) playing their music REALLY loud and king was really nervous because of the bass. Well, there were three kids trying to pet him and one even grabbed his head and he didnt even show one bit of agression. he just backed away. i am very please.
Chi probably will maul the kids...with kisses, to get her goodies. Pyper, lilarrows dog, is probably the friendliest dog ever. she just wants to love every kid she comes across. I think it is good for king to see Pyper being so social. Im sure it will encourage him to come even farther out of his shell. Today when lilarrow and i were walking our dogs there were some losers(who broke into lilarrows place and stole some stuff) playing their music REALLY loud and king was really nervous because of the bass. Well, there were three kids trying to pet him and one even grabbed his head and he didnt even show one bit of agression. he just backed away. i am very please.
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I'm no way near to be an expert on this topic, but I can share some experiences that we have gone through. Nikita is my 1st Doberman and I wanted to do the best, but I soon learned I had a lot of learning to do, even about my self. Dobermans are very in tune to their owners. If you are in a happy mood, they pick up on that vibe and they are happy too. If you had a bad day, they pick up on that and it seems to confuse them, which usually leads to unwanted actions that just adds to the situation. For example, when we were working on loose leash walking, it was bad. She did not do it right, I started to get aggravated, she picked up on that vibe and we just spiraled down hill from that. I thought we could just keep doing it and she will get it, but because I was giving off the bad vibe, it never worked. At the end, both of us were frustrated. Once I approached this with a calm attitude, we were able to start making progress. It was a slow process, but it worked
As their Pack Leader, I learned two important things. You do not need to dominate and they need to know that you will be there for them. Let me try to explain. I was a little hard on my girl, thinking that if I barked out orders, she should obey, now. It didn’t work. When I was calm but firm, she responded better to me. When I yelled, she would get scared and she would not listen at all. All she wanted to do was get away from me. By being calm and firm, it was like, Oh, you do not approve of that, I will not do that. That’s kind of simplified, but hopefully this makes some sense.
They need to know they can count on you as a leader to protect them. When she was in a situation that scared her, she would look to me as a protector. When we started to go to a local dog park, she would occasionally get her self into a situation with another dog that was unpleasant to her. The other dog pursued her, growling and snarling. She was running away crying/whining to get away from that dog. Once I stepped in and stopped that dog, politely of course, I checked out my little girl to make sure she was alright (no bites/wounds). I did not make a big fuse about it and just let her get back to playing with the other dogs. This action let her realized that she could count on me when in an unpleasant situations. I would not make a big fuse about it because I did not want to encourage that if she was scared she would get lots of attention. I just stopped the incident and we move on.
I have learned a lot about myself by being with my Nikita and also about her too. I know what situations make her uneasy, but she has learned to trust me in these situations and to know I am there for her. I know this is not totally relevant to your situation, but I found that having this mind set has helped us a lot. I hope this can help in some way. Good Luck with King and I believe its not too late.
As their Pack Leader, I learned two important things. You do not need to dominate and they need to know that you will be there for them. Let me try to explain. I was a little hard on my girl, thinking that if I barked out orders, she should obey, now. It didn’t work. When I was calm but firm, she responded better to me. When I yelled, she would get scared and she would not listen at all. All she wanted to do was get away from me. By being calm and firm, it was like, Oh, you do not approve of that, I will not do that. That’s kind of simplified, but hopefully this makes some sense.
They need to know they can count on you as a leader to protect them. When she was in a situation that scared her, she would look to me as a protector. When we started to go to a local dog park, she would occasionally get her self into a situation with another dog that was unpleasant to her. The other dog pursued her, growling and snarling. She was running away crying/whining to get away from that dog. Once I stepped in and stopped that dog, politely of course, I checked out my little girl to make sure she was alright (no bites/wounds). I did not make a big fuse about it and just let her get back to playing with the other dogs. This action let her realized that she could count on me when in an unpleasant situations. I would not make a big fuse about it because I did not want to encourage that if she was scared she would get lots of attention. I just stopped the incident and we move on.
I have learned a lot about myself by being with my Nikita and also about her too. I know what situations make her uneasy, but she has learned to trust me in these situations and to know I am there for her. I know this is not totally relevant to your situation, but I found that having this mind set has helped us a lot. I hope this can help in some way. Good Luck with King and I believe its not too late.
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Great news Tom! I'm glad that you are making progress. You are doing it right by letting King be the one to approach. The last thing you want to do is force him to meet someone. Keep up the great work!
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Fantastic news TomandKing..welldone to you and your dog 
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Another update...
King is like a whole new dog. he isnt fully trusting of people, but he doesnt lunge and very rarely growls or barks at people he doesnt know(only does it when in vehicle or yard no...that is next). When people try to touch him, instead of trying to nip, growl, bark, or intimidate, he just backs off. Not only is he less agressive with people, he is also less agressive with dogs. Today i took king for a walk with my sister and there was a guy with a pit/rotti cross. King didnt growl or bark when he first spotted the dog, infact, he was pulling to go meet the dog. The dog was REALLY hyper and body checked king. Rather than king getting defensive, he yelped and backed up. he showed NO agression at all. the guy tried to grab kings head to rub it, king was scared so he backed off. Before he would have for sure nipped or started barking out of control.
Anyway, i just thought i would update everyone on kings progress.
King is like a whole new dog. he isnt fully trusting of people, but he doesnt lunge and very rarely growls or barks at people he doesnt know(only does it when in vehicle or yard no...that is next). When people try to touch him, instead of trying to nip, growl, bark, or intimidate, he just backs off. Not only is he less agressive with people, he is also less agressive with dogs. Today i took king for a walk with my sister and there was a guy with a pit/rotti cross. King didnt growl or bark when he first spotted the dog, infact, he was pulling to go meet the dog. The dog was REALLY hyper and body checked king. Rather than king getting defensive, he yelped and backed up. he showed NO agression at all. the guy tried to grab kings head to rub it, king was scared so he backed off. Before he would have for sure nipped or started barking out of control.
Anyway, i just thought i would update everyone on kings progress.
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wow sounds like you are making some major progress ..well done to you and king~ it must be a great feeling to see him progressing and your hard work is paying off :dancing_b
Quote TomandKing
the guy tried to grab kings head to rub it, king was scared so he backed off
i dont blame king for being scared ~ i think most dogs would have been..if someone grabbed my head i would back off...some people dont know how to approach dogs
Quote TomandKing
the guy tried to grab kings head to rub it, king was scared so he backed off
i dont blame king for being scared ~ i think most dogs would have been..if someone grabbed my head i would back off...some people dont know how to approach dogs
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Glad to hear it's going so well! You are clearly doing a GREAT job Tom! Of course in a perfect world no one or no animals would push the limit with our dogs by reaching for them to far or grabbing at them, but it does happen, it's wonderful that King is learning to accept it so well.
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well, its been raining a LOT where i live, so i havent been getting much socialization done,but the good thing is he is still making progress. Infact, we got a new security gaurd wher i live today, it was dark out, he was in all black. Wehn the guy approached up, king didnt let out a peep. i was very impressed.
On a side note, i have also learned some new stuff through listening to others, and through analizing what king is thinking through my actions(read some info on how dogs think).
Ok, first things first. Out of fear of king biting someone, i would hold kings leash tight so that he couldnt get to that person. Well i learned that i was sending the signal that there was somethign wrong with that person. Now back to the security gaurd. I let king have the full length of his leash, he walked up to the guy, sniffed him and walked back to me and layed down until i was done talking.
I also learned through a clicker training book on ways to teach king to stay in the elevator until i say he can exit by letting him figure out what he was doing wrong, and what i want him to do. It can be pretty scary for people to have a dobe running out of the elevator. I actually find that the clicker method works much better than training with treats only because instead of rewarding him for the end result, he is learning what actions cause him to get the treat at the end result.
anyway, i will keep updating at the days go by.
TomAndKing
On a side note, i have also learned some new stuff through listening to others, and through analizing what king is thinking through my actions(read some info on how dogs think).
Ok, first things first. Out of fear of king biting someone, i would hold kings leash tight so that he couldnt get to that person. Well i learned that i was sending the signal that there was somethign wrong with that person. Now back to the security gaurd. I let king have the full length of his leash, he walked up to the guy, sniffed him and walked back to me and layed down until i was done talking.
I also learned through a clicker training book on ways to teach king to stay in the elevator until i say he can exit by letting him figure out what he was doing wrong, and what i want him to do. It can be pretty scary for people to have a dobe running out of the elevator. I actually find that the clicker method works much better than training with treats only because instead of rewarding him for the end result, he is learning what actions cause him to get the treat at the end result.
anyway, i will keep updating at the days go by.
TomAndKing
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