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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've read about them, and own one. They're quite different from the bitches I've been around but I've never been around males prior to Seth. While I have a good idea of the male Doberman, I was hoping those who own one or have owned one in the past can give me some general information as far as what to expect.

While I've read as much as I can (still do) about male Dobermans, there are still some things that I'd like to have further explanations on. Most of these involve corrective training that I need ideas/opinions on as I can train a Dane with no problem. A Doberman on the other hand...can have me trained quickly lmao.

When I command Seth to lay down, he literally body slams the ground and tries not to take any of his commands as seriously regardless of who gives them. While I thought it was an alpha issue, at some times I doubt it because he'll listen to me right away, and sometimes won't. This depends on what's going on around him. At which point I make him do what I told him too. I am thinking this is training that needs to be worked on, however is it possible that he may just be an idiot teen right now with a short attention span lol? Also, any suggestions to stop the body slamming lol?

Seth likes to slap people (including myself) as well. He knows "shake" and I wonder if he is trying to "shake" without command. However there is a difference between shake and slap as he'll put his paw in my hand for shake. For slap he just hauls off and "decks" ya. What I have been doing is catching his leg and smacking his paw (not too hard) and telling him NO HITTING. After one pop he doesn't do it again for awhile. I catch his leg to try not to confuse that w/ shake. Is this the correct way to stop this? When I ask him to shake he gently puts the paw in my hand so I feel he knows the difference. He uses his feet for everything-must touch everything with nose and paws.

He does not acknowledge the body language of other dogs. This is a problem that I need to nip in the bud right away because he's going to tick off the wrong dog in my house. He ignores growing, baring teeth, being rolled over on his back by the dogs, and will continue this if we don't stop him. What he does to start this is play bow, the entire thing is he wants to play. Then he'll try to jump on them, play bite, body slam, poke, you name it. I immediatly jump in and command down and I have to MAKE him lay down. This is my main concern at the moment, because while I am there monitoring him, I know the other dogs are getting close to biting him and not just nipping anymore.

Aside from making him lay down I command "knock it off". Once in awhile I will swat him on the butt with a rolled up newspaper if he gets out of hand.

Seth will urinate when he sees three men-my brother, my father, and my boyfriend. I am pretty sure this is a submissive sign, however he doesn't urinate around other guys at all. It isn't marking, its a little burst of urine when any of the three approach him. What I'm confused about is why he does this to them but not anyone else who may have the same height or body structure. He occasionally does it with me when he knows I'm very mad at him. I'm looking for a good way to correct this because it is annoying. Seth adores my family but everytime he will urinate when they approach him, even with treats and slowly.

And lastly, Seth whines nearly all of the time. I've tried the squirt bottle/no tecnique and that did not work. I tried using a bark collar, and that only works when he's on. I've tried ignoring him and that works if I don't have anything important I need to do. I exercise him for as long as he wants and it isn't vigerous exercise due to his age but enough to wear him down. He has plenty of chew toys as well. I'm trying to figure out why he's whining, and it isn't the bathroom whine wither. Could he just be a whiny dog? My vet suggested de-barking him, however I told him this was an issue that needs counter training. He whines and yips when I'm leaving the house as well. I know he's my shadow and that this may be speration anxiety because he will tear things up when I'm gone, even with others home. He also resorts to pushing his ex pen in order to suck something into his pen and destroy it.

So aside from my novel of issues, can I be safe in saying that at some point in time relative soon over a period of six months, this teenage idiot stage will begin to leave? I know no one can give an estimated guess in months because each dog is different, but I do know that most dogs hit a point in their life when they start to grow out of that stage.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to read this and post lol. Sorry for the novel!

Meagen


(This is what I did lol):blah_2_ma
 

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He does not acknowledge the body language of other dogs. This is a problem that I need to nip in the bud right away because he's going to tick off the wrong dog in my house. He ignores growing, baring teeth, being rolled over on his back by the dogs, and will continue this if we don't stop him. What he does to start this is play bow, the entire thing is he wants to play. Then he'll try to jump on them, play bite, body slam, poke, you name it. I immediatly jump in and command down and I have to MAKE him lay down. This is my main concern at the moment, because while I am there monitoring him, I know the other dogs are getting close to biting him and not just nipping anymore.
How old is your puppy? Maybe you can find other dogs that are more tolerant of your dogs puppiness.

Aside from making him lay down I command "knock it off". Once in awhile I will swat him on the butt with a rolled up newspaper if he gets out of hand.
I would never hit my dog with any object. No matter how light you feel that you doing this, your dog is still connecting punishment with that object and can become aggressive later when he sees someone with that object. I have seen this in a rottie. She was a wonderful, sweet girl until you grabbed a fly swatter. She came unglued, no attacking, just growling and backing off. I would have never trusted approaching her with the swatter.

Seth will urinate when he sees three men-my brother, my father, and my boyfriend. I am pretty sure this is a submissive sign, however he doesn't urinate around other guys at all. It isn't marking, its a little burst of urine when any of the three approach him. What I'm confused about is why he does this to them but not anyone else who may have the same height or body structure. He occasionally does it with me when he knows I'm very mad at him. I'm looking for a good way to correct this because it is annoying. Seth adores my family but everytime he will urinate when they approach him, even with treats and slowly.
Is it exciteable or submissive urination? It would be wierd that he would narrow it down to them if it was subbmissive. Is there something in his past that you are unsure of that might trigger this? Make sure if it is submissive that they are approaching him on his level.

And lastly, Seth whines nearly all of the time. I've tried the squirt bottle/no tecnique and that did not work. I tried using a bark collar, and that only works when he's on. I've tried ignoring him and that works if I don't have anything important I need to do. I exercise him for as long as he wants and it isn't vigerous exercise due to his age but enough to wear him down. He has plenty of chew toys as well. I'm trying to figure out why he's whining, and it isn't the bathroom whine wither. Could he just be a whiny dog? My vet suggested de-barking him, however I told him this was an issue that needs counter training. He whines and yips when I'm leaving the house as well. I know he's my shadow and that this may be speration anxiety because he will tear things up when I'm gone, even with others home. He also resorts to pushing his ex pen in order to suck something into his pen and destroy it.
Ignoring the whine is good. There are many ways to help seperation anxiety. You can start gradually seperating yourself in short spans and increasing that time span. I personally wouldn't go as far as to debarking him for something that I can train.
 

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Do they actuly de-bark dogs? I have heard of it, but never knew it was practiced still.

Seth seems to be in that stage as you already know. Some dogs just don't get body language until later on. Also, when a pup is raised with certain dogs, they seem to know they can push abit further then say a strange dog.

Raven my Boston, was brought up around Kris's dobe Kira who was 3 at the time I got her. Raven would take bones from her, ignoring the growls and body postures. Kira allowed this because she was infact just a puppy, and Kira sensed that. Now that Raven is older (3 now) Kira no longer tolerates it.

The same thing is happening again with Raven and our new 14 week old Dobe pups. Raven inturn lets them steal bones from her. They roll over on thier backs submitting, "acting" all cute, and then steal her bone! She lets the get away with alot with just a few corrective barks and nips for being too rough. But that time will go by as the get more muture.

The same will happen with Seth. At some point he should be understanding, it's a weaning process almost. I know alot of dobermans that are very vocal. You must have one also. I'm not sure that you can entirly knock it out, but as far as the seperation anxiety, there are some tricks to try. As mentioned start short sessions of leaving and coming right back. Increase the time. So he knows you will always come back. Weh I leave Raven home which is praticaly never...I leave her with a nice merro bone, or a treat she will be amused with for a bit. I also leave the TV or radio on.

Don't know what to say about the submissive peeing.

I'm sure it can all be corrected, or grown out of. I just Love Seth. He's such a beautiful Boy. Hang in there it will get better!
 
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Do they actuly de-bark dogs? I have heard of it, but never knew it was practiced still.

Yup, I saw a de-barked Dobe last summer, she was still "barking" but it was like a whisper of air.
 

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Yep they still de-bark dogs....The person who first got me into dogs years ago had a de-barked sheltie....She was totally into dog sport and still is. She said she struggled with doing it but that that was the only way the dog was going to be able to be around because his barking was so out of control. She did everything she could think of and saw a couple of behaviorists as well before she had this done. It was a last resort measure for her. He still barked all the time but you couldn't hear him as much....just a barking whisper as Sorthund said....I am not saying that I agree with this...but for this particular dog I think it was a choice that had to be made for her particular situation.
 

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OH...and I don't think that most vets like to do this procedure and probably many refuse to do it...it is definately not a main stream practice....I would like to see what Kim's thoughts are..Kim?
 

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Years ago we had shelties and they were debarked. They came that way from the breeder (we didn't get them as puppies) and then the male poodle, Fritz, we had got debarked. He was a yappy thing - middle of the night the wind blows and he barks kind of dog. This was all about 20 + years ago too. I remember that my dad said either that dog gets debarked or he goes. So he was debarked. I didn't know that they still did this. Wow, now I feel old think that all this happened that long ago! Anyway - he lived to be 16 or 17 years old - still barked a ton it was only quieter and didn't seem to suffer any ill effect form it. Other than our poodle the only other dogs that I knew that we debarked were shelties.

Isabelle is a whiner especially if she believes that she isn't getting enough attention. If I keep up on her walks and she gets lots of exercise there is no whining and no hole digging.
 

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I know two dogs that are debarked and they have constant throat problems, coughing and wheezing.....not sure if it was cruel to them, but it seemed that way to me. I have no idea medically if it is painful, just seemed sad.
 

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Rudi is just a love bug! (That's my new favorite name for him along with Puppinski.............nevermind!)
He is my first Dobe. I do find that he over-exaggerates his "down" position by doing it super fast. Kind of like he really wants to please me. And when I lay a large milk bone across his snout he'll sit there all cross-eyed until I say "Good Boy." Then he drops it really fast and takes off with it to his special "eat my treat here" place in the living room.

He's just soooooo gooooood! I love him!


When I first rescued him.......I thought he could have been debarked. Not a peep came out of him until about a year later when we learned to bark together! LOL

When he wants attention......I'll hear him do his little whistle whine through his nostrils. It's very very light.......but can be irritating, espescially when he lays his head at the foot of the bed while he is standing.....poor guy..................so I give in!
 

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Ria,

Is your picture thingy of Magnum PI?
I remember that show! Can't remember the dobes names...

De-barking sounds mid evil for sure. ( Though not much more then cropping and docking really) I would say last alternitive before you actully bring a dog to the pound. I wonder what effects it does have on a dog, phyically and mentally...
 

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Shelties are often debarked because they are a barking breed. They bark because they are a herding breed and barking is part of their herding style. It doesn't work so well in suburban pet situations, tho. At dog shows, most of the Shelties seem to be debarked, most of the MinPins, too. I had a Doberman debarked once, he was a rescue foster and he was very noisy. It never seemed to have any effect on his attitude, he still barked he just didn't make all the noise he used to. I did it as a last resort, and I definitely think it's preferable to death.

Zeus and Apollo.
 

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I met a dog that was debarked once at the shelter...I forget what kind he was...but he still had this high pitch raspy whine/yelpish bark...I personally would rather deal with the regular whining and barking....
 

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I think that is lousy advise coming from a vet to debark a puppy as a first resort. I wouldn't be going back.

How old was your puppy when he was taken from his litter? I wonder if he was taken to soon and didn't learn certain social skills from his litter mates.

It sounds like maybe you break things up before an older dog can give him a proper correction.

Some dogs just don't have proper social skills and they are best learned from another dog. I'm not saying to put him in danger of course and let the other dogs have at him, but if you think they would give a good correction, I would stop bailing the puppy out.

And the pictures of him, he is absolutely adorable.
 

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Shelties are often debarked because they are a barking breed. They bark because they are a herding breed and barking is part of their herding style. It doesn't work so well in suburban pet situations, tho. At dog shows, most of the Shelties seem to be debarked, most of the MinPins, too. I had a Doberman debarked once, he was a rescue foster and he was very noisy. It never seemed to have any effect on his attitude, he still barked he just didn't make all the noise he used to. I did it as a last resort, and I definitely think it's preferable to death.

Zeus and Apollo.
I have to agree.

In the end I would say do what ever it takes to keep an animal in a home. I debated this topic in my Vet Intro Class. I was the only person out of a class of 40-50 others who was Pro Docking,Cropping, Removel of dew claws and (responsible) de-clawing of cats. De Barking was brought up, but I knew nothing of it at the time.

Too many animals are needing homes already. If Nuisence Barking is about to get you kicked out of your home, in trouble with your neighbors, or fined by the Police... I say go for it. It's a much better option then the shelter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I'll answer everyone's questions/comments in one post to make it easier. :)

DreamDoby

How old is your puppy? Maybe you can find other dogs that are more tolerant of your dogs puppiness.

Seth is one year old (3/18). He does this will all dogs regardless of their ages. Even the other puppies his size don't like the way he tries to play. I'm trying to find other Doberman owners in my area but before I would allow them to play I have to have records of vaccinations and learn how their dogs behave and any potential aggression issues. I do this will all dogs.


I would never hit my dog with any object. No matter how light you feel that you doing this, your dog is still connecting punishment with that object and can become aggressive later when he sees someone with that object. I have seen this in a rottie. She was a wonderful, sweet girl until you grabbed a fly swatter. She came unglued, no attacking, just growling and backing off. I would have never trusted approaching her with the swatter.

I don't swat him often with the newspaper. I don't know if that appeared as though I do it every time or not, but it only happens when he refuses to leave the other dogs alone. 99.9% of the time when I tell him knock it off he runs and grabs his toy and plays fetch with himself. There is that 1% where he is hell bent on "harassing" the other dogs. Even then it is rare that I swat him.

He likes the newspaper actually. He likes to "dance" on it if I put it on the floor and I think it is because of the noise. Of course he'll try to eat it too which doesn't surprise me, but he's brought me pages of the paper out of the blue.


Is it excitable or submissive urination? It would be weird that he would narrow it down to them if it was submissive. Is there something in his past that you are unsure of that might trigger this? Make sure if it is submissive that they are approaching him on his level.

I think it is a combination of both. Seth loves these people and gets really excited when they enter the room we're in. They have swatted him on the butt when he tries to steal their food. I honestly did not mind them swatting him for that because that is unacceptable in the first place. They didn't "beat" him. They slapped him on the butt open handed which is what I would have done. Seth will also urinate for exams at the vet too. That is submissive because I take him to the clinic I work at and I assist with whatever we're doing to him. He may just be one of those dogs that submit to most things. Like I said, once in awhile he'll urinate when I'm vocally punishing him. Once in a very great while he'll do this with a complete stranger regardless of their sex, height, race, or age.

He was never abused as a puppy before I got him, and once in my ownership no one dared to try it because they know I don't take kindly to abuse.


Ignoring the whine is good. There are many ways to help separation anxiety. You can start gradually separating yourself in short spans and increasing that time span. I personally wouldn't go as far as to debarking him for something that I can train.

Unfortunetly I can't gradually seperate myself from him. I have to work and that can vary from a part time to full time shift depending on how busy the clinic gets. My mom gives me a "report" of what Seth does while I'm away. He whines and yips loudly for about five minutes then quiets down and starts chewing his toys. However, in an apartment situation this will cause a problem so that's why I'm trying to figure this out soon. :) On days off I am in and out of the house randomly and usually not gone for a long time.

When I come home I don't smuther him in love and affection. Instead I ignore him until he stops whining and calms down. Once he is calm and quiet I pet him and say hi. I read about this somewhere online, I can't remember where though. It does help a little. It reassures him that I will come home and that I don't like the way he greets me. Occasionally he won't even whine but do the nubby dance instead. That is more desirable so I'll pet him as soon as I've got my stuff out of my hands. I've seen him do this more often so I'm getting somewhere, least I think lol.

I'll address the debarking thing seperate.

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Mandy

Do they actuly de-bark dogs? I have heard of it, but never knew it was practiced still.

I'll address this seperatly.

Seth seems to be in that stage as you already know. Some dogs just don't get body language until later on. Also, when a pup is raised with certain dogs, they seem to know they can push abit further then say a strange dog.

I swear that's what he must be "thinking", but he does this to other dogs as well. I think it was his inital upbringing that I had nothing to do with. If the person wouldn't have let him do this in the first place, I probably wouldn't have even known about it or had to counter train it.

Raven my Boston, was brought up around Kris's dobe Kira who was 3 at the time I got her. Raven would take bones from her, ignoring the growls and body postures. Kira allowed this because she was infact just a puppy, and Kira sensed that. Now that Raven is older (3 now) Kira no longer tolerates it.

I didn't know Kris had Dobes lol. Seth tries to take bones and toys from the other dogs, but I take them away from him and tell him NOT YOURS and give them back to the original "owner". Sometimes he'll find something else to do and other times it is a constant marathon of taking it away from him.

The same thing is happening again with Raven and our new 14 week old Dobe pups. Raven inturn lets them steal bones from her. They roll over on thier backs submitting, "acting" all cute, and then steal her bone! She lets the get away with alot with just a few corrective barks and nips for being too rough. But that time will go by as the get more muture.

The same will happen with Seth. At some point he should be understanding, it's a weaning process almost. I know alot of dobermans that are very vocal. You must have one also. I'm not sure that you can entirly knock it out, but as far as the seperation anxiety, there are some tricks to try. As mentioned start short sessions of leaving and coming right back. Increase the time. So he knows you will always come back. Weh I leave Raven home which is praticaly never...I leave her with a nice merro bone, or a treat she will be amused with for a bit. I also leave the TV or radio on.

As mentioned I can't do that right away because of work. I leave Seth with all sorts of toys and chews, he's got more toys than a child does lol. I tried having that one special chew and toy that he gets when I'm going to leave, but that made it worse as he knew I was going somewhere without him and he raised hell. He quiets down after a bit and chews his toys.

Don't know what to say about the submissive peeing.

I'm sure it can all be corrected, or grown out of. I just Love Seth. He's such a beautiful Boy. Hang in there it will get better!

I'm sure it can too. I'm not giving up on this boy, he's my baby. I just can't believe that vet's "recommendation" (of stupidity and money hunger).
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Jenny

Isabelle is a whiner especially if she believes that she isn't getting enough attention. If I keep up on her walks and she gets lots of exercise there is no whining and no hole digging.

I take Seth for walks and bike rides almost every day. If for some reason I can't, then I let him run in the backyard until he tires himself out. Ususally this stops the excessive whining, unless it is running around the backyard. We play games like fetch and tag. Frisbee is a joke, if I toss it to him it lands on his head lol. He stares at it like it's a flat ball that he can't pick up.
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lanabana

I know two dogs that are debarked and they have constant throat problems, coughing and wheezing.....not sure if it was cruel to them, but it seemed that way to me. I have no idea medically if it is painful, just seemed sad.

When done by an experienced vet, the initial surgery itself isn't painful. The dog is put under anesthesia and given a shot of medication. The vocal cords are cut and removed. Dissolving sutures are used if needed, and the throat is sutured up.

There are problems that can occur, just like with any surgery. If the dog immediatly goes back to barking this will cause a problem right away. The dogs don't stop barking, instead it is a raspy bark without voice.

Coughing and wheezing actually sound like an issue that may or may not be associated with that surgery. If the people smoke (anything) then the animals will be having problems. There could also be other medical issues going on inside the lungs or nasal passage that could be causing this. Wheezing has to do with the lungs. When a debarked dog barks, it can sound like coughing. So as I said this may or may not have something to do with the actual surgery.

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CoAl-s-Mom

I think that is lousy advise coming from a vet to debark a puppy as a first resort. I wouldn't be going back.

I agree and I told them I wouldn't be using their clinic anymore. I'll be using my clinic when we're not busy. This vet isn't the brightest bulb in the box either. How she got her license I have no clue. She's also very horrible @ surgeries and often we see her patients at the pet emergency clinic because something is going wrong and she either didn't fix it or half -assed it. Seeing a bitch come in because her intestines were sticking through her spay incision was really disgusting. The only thing this vet can do worth a penny is debarking and exams.

How old was your puppy when he was taken from his litter? I wonder if he was taken to soon and didn't learn certain social skills from his litter mates.

Seth was 8-9 weeks when I brought him home. He was the last puppy left and I didn't even think to ask when the others went to their new homes. If they left too early, then it would make sense why he is lacking social skills.

It sounds like maybe you break things up before an older dog can give him a proper correction.

Sometimes I need to. The Dane he tries this with has already punctured the top part of his neck, and the tooth hole tore a bit. This was all as a corrective measure AFTER the growls and nips. The Dane is a bitch (seriously lol) and she is very tolerant of other dogs and puppies. However she had enough of this and took it one step further.


Some dogs just don't have proper social skills and they are best learned from another dog. I'm not saying to put him in danger of course and let the other dogs have at him, but if you think they would give a good correction, I would stop bailing the puppy out.

Like mentioned above, sometimes they go above and beyond what a normal correction would be, and take it to the next level. So I'm not sure whether he would be in danger or not because they do take it to the next level.

And the pictures of him, he is absolutely adorable.
Thanks, he loves cameras. He also loves to wear clothing as well. He puts his head in my shirts when I'm getting dressed lol.
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Debarking-

I've mentioned the procedure above and how its done. Sometimes dogs do need to have this done as a last resort. I don't have a problem with debarking, but I do have a problem when it is the only thing done and training has not been attempted.

I refuse to have Seth debarked because he's just whining. Yes it drives me crazy but he also does funny Dober talk as well. My goal is to reduce the whining as I am not sure if I can completly stop it.

Meagen
 

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I don't swat him often with the newspaper. I don't know if that appeared as though I do it every time or not, but it only happens when he refuses to leave the other dogs alone. 99.9% of the time when I tell him knock it off he runs and grabs his toy and plays fetch with himself. There is that 1% where he is hell bent on "harassing" the other dogs. Even then it is rare that I swat him.

He likes the newspaper actually. He likes to "dance" on it if I put it on the floor and I think it is because of the noise. Of course he'll try to eat it too which doesn't surprise me, but he's brought me pages of the paper out of the blue.



I think it is a combination of both. Seth loves these people and gets really excited when they enter the room we're in. They have swatted him on the butt when he tries to steal their food. I honestly did not mind them swatting him for that because that is unacceptable in the first place. They didn't "beat" him. They slapped him on the butt open handed which is what I would have done. Seth will also urinate for exams at the vet too. That is submissive because I take him to the clinic I work at and I assist with whatever we're doing to him. He may just be one of those dogs that submit to most things. Like I said, once in awhile he'll urinate when I'm vocally punishing him. Once in a very great while he'll do this with a complete stranger regardless of their sex, height, race, or age.


Meagen


I don't really agree with swatting, hitting, whatever you want to call it. Why should the dog get swatted for playing the only way he knows how? Let him play for awhile with the dogs and when things are starting to get out of hand remove him from the play and either continue playing with him with his favorite toy or crate him. It sounds like he is just getting to excited. I also think the same thing about food stealing. He should not be wacked on the butt with an open hand. Put him on a leash when your eating and teach him it's not acceptable or crate him. ******* use to do the same thing, accept she would try and take it right from my hand! I put the leash on her and put her in a down until I was finished. I would always reward her with a treat afterwards.
 
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