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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Three days in a row my 9 month old has used the living room floor as a toilet (poop). She is way beyond potty trained so I don’t need this advice. I watched her go after work today, gave her treats when she came back in, we went for a drive. The second I went into the bathroom when we returned, she quick disappeared to turd on the floor. Like on cue, when I don’t see her of course.

The first time, a couple days ago - she was having a beyond normal barking fit about I don’t know what in the yard. I called her in. She is capable of taking a break from her hyperarousal outdoors if needed to do her business, but maybe not that night. If she had wanted to go back out shortly after I let her in I would have let her out again. But she took a little dump on the living room floor when I left to another room. So, yesterday - same. Today - same.

So do I need to tether her to myself for a while? (along with starting over with potty training rewards). Also, she might be seeing or hearing new critters, though I doubt much - still freezing here. She’s been extra edgy this week. We have been walking less because sidewalks are icy and paths are icy snow chunks. We’ve played a lot indoors; plenty of games she likes inside now. But she does need to get into the real world more often, different times of days, places etc.

It’s been said on here that once a potty trained puppy goes inside it seems like license to do it again. That is probably true. But like I said, today she went outside. Then inside. So I don’t get it. I understand the anxiety pee because she did that at my mom’s over Christmas (peed on the carpet even though she just peed outside). She was more barky in the car today than normal. Okay in the yard the last couple days though ( but she normally does not bark in the car). I don’t understand the connection. Or how to fix the issue of turd inside, or what a reactive/edgy spat out of nowhere means. Or And if they are connected. I think I am missing something.

The fear stages I think I recognized around 6/7 months were simple wimpering in the car. But at six months I hadn’t had her long. She was timid of everything. Is she in an offbeat fear stage that looks like bonkers anxiety?

I’m a little bit hesitant about tethering because I tethered her to her kennel once a couple months ago when she was lunging at the cat too much. She lunged anyway, dragged her crate part way across the room and didn’t understand what happened. I just calmly unhooked her and she disappeared to my bedroom to hide (she has never been in my bedroom). I tried tethering her to a chair I was sitting on when company was over recently and she was so stiff and frozen I put her in her kennel instead. She is no leash expert outside, dreads tethering. So I don’t know what other ideas there are that don’t involve leash revulsion forever. Treats for following me everywhere??

She isn’t extremely leash reactive but we don’t live in a busy place, need to expand our range. She barks in the yard sometimes but comes inside when I call her in. All the rest of her behavior has been okay/same lately.

Sorry I write long posts. I don’t know what the context for the problem is here so threw out whatever I could think of.
 

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I'm trying to think along with you. I did think anxiety, but then she did this three times while you weren't looking... you mentioned icy weather, but wasn't it worst before? I do think this needs to be dealt with with constant supervision to prevent it from happening again. I don't know if I understood the issue with tethering her to yourself. I don't see this as contributing to leash reactivity. Don't tether her to an object - tether her to you when indoors. Also, she does seem to be entering a fear stage with the bonkers barking. She is maturing, her temperament will slowly reveal itself, but barking at random stuff is expected at this stage.

Oh, I just saw you had a similar issue in January, right? Seems like that behaviour isn't completely fixed. Makes more sense for this to be a sort of relapse (normal - behaviour that has happened more than once was likely naturally reinforced). So I would double down on the supervision! You need thousands of correct behaviours to erradicate the wrong behaviour, so be patient.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I was on a break from work all of last week. She had her normal crate routine but she is soothed by having people/animals in the house. So I don’t know if she was anxious on Monday but appeared normal enough to me Mon-Tues. Longest I’ve been home with her all day since Christmas. I don’t think she did well in January either but I probably didn’t put it together. Christmas away at family’s made her anxious; well behaved except sneaking off to anxiety pee on white carpet ;my worst nightmare). So I thought she was still nutty for a while it seemed. Probably both.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'm trying to think along with you. I did think anxiety, but then she did this three times while you weren't looking... you mentioned icy weather, but wasn't it worst before? I do think this needs to be dealt with with constant supervision to prevent it from happening again. I don't know if I understood the issue with tethering her to yourself. I don't see this as contributing to leash reactivity. Don't tether her to an object - tether her to you when indoors. Also, she does seem to be entering a fear stage with the bonkers barking. She is maturing, her temperament will slowly reveal itself, but barking at random stuff is expected at this stage.

Oh, I just saw you had a similar issue in January, right? Seems like that behaviour isn't completely fixed. Makes more sense for this to be a sort of relapse (normal - behaviour that has happened more than once was likely naturally reinforced). So I would double down on the supervision! You need thousands of correct behaviours to erradicate the wrong behaviour, so be patient.
I added my own post script because my brain swirls. I still didn’t understand her super well in January. I knew she was timid. But she was a little different every week. Learning new things but I have learned some about her anxiety. Circling etc. Definitely peeing. That got under control in January. Nov until Christmas she did not pee in the house except accidental play pee - I got better at letting her out before this happened. She doesn’t need this help anymore.

She anxious peed at my Mom’s so much that everything became potty training 101. But just those couple days at Christmas I didn’t understand what she was doing. Because she hadn’t done it before and my brain was over-ridden with horror of pee on my mom’s white carpet (she was so gracious), and cleaning it up. I started calling Anouk into the tv room every time she disappeared from sight. Failed still, imperfect.

So that continued back at my house, plus pooping somewhere in there. It was a similar start of that. She was so hyper or distracted outside she couldn’t poop all evening and I didn’t know it. And so she did the same thing until we did potty training over. I’m frustrated she’s 9 months. Unless possibly this is a form of her worst anxiety and how fear stages work for her. Feb March -no potty in the house.
 

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I wouldn't get so frustrated, because it's still fixable. Since you got her at 5 months (if I recall correctly), you probably don't know what kind of potty training history she had before then. Old habits can always come back and she may need more time. I'll tell you that my dog, who I potty trained since 2 months of age, had rare, sporadic accidents until 8 months. That's when he became totally reliable. He took longer than my first dog.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I wouldn't get so frustrated, because it's still fixable. Since you got her at 5 months (if I recall correctly), you probably don't know what kind of potty training history she had before then. Old habits can always come back and she may need more time. I'll tell you that my dog, who I potty trained since 2 months of age, had rare, sporadic accidents until 8 months. That's when he became totally reliable. He took longer than my first dog.
I did kind of wonder this too - no idea when she was potty trained or how much she had accidents as an anxiety response. Even though crates are a kind of safety there aren’t a whole lot of options for shelter or foster animals. And so much inconsistency. For a month she just gobbled up everything new around my world, then she became princess and the pea around changes probably at first fear stage. So her adoption/adjustment/age collided some.

I don’t want day four so it’s as difficult to un-do as January. But I’m home tomorrow, so I wonder if this will help. No clue.But I’ll at least try tomorrow without tethering her to me to see how it goes.
 

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I'm going to say she's not as potty trained as you think she is. She's only 9 months old, and you live here in Minnesota (like I do). Yesterday's weather SUCKED. It may have simply been that she didn't really want to go out in it or waited to long or....

Just my two cents, as someone with an 8 month old puppy at home...I don't trust him near that much to tell me he needs to go out!
 

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With the kind of behavior you are describing I would absolutely have her tethered to me (or crated) and not trusting her to actually believe that her potty training is a complete as you think it is.

Since these "accidents" seem to be happening pretty much when she is out of your sight I'd reestablish early potty training routines--even if it means you have to go out with her in the snow, freezing rain and ice.

I'm not sure that everything you are seeing is "anxiety based"--dogs, in general, need experience with training (any kind of training and that includes potty training) before they actually "get" what is expected.

Since her potty training went belly up at your mom's that smacks of no experience with those rules applying everywhere. And considering the kind of thing that is going on now with the pooping (while sneaking off and being out of your sight) in bad weather suggests that she hasn't "got" the fact that outside is outside and the only proper place for her to poop in all weather.


Good luck--I'd certainly have her tethered to me--I don't think that is going to contribute to leash reactivity either--in fact it may help some in that nothing horrid will happen to her when she's tethered to you (and I wouldn't recommend trying to tether her to "objects" either.

And if she's still having random "play pee accidents"--that suggests that she isn't nearly as completely house training as you thought. And just for the record--more of my Dobes than not never did come and "tell" me that they needed to go out until they were two or three years old. And I just took them out frequently so that there were no "accidents" happening. Every time they have an "accident" it sets the whole process back.

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Yesterday’s weather did suck.

she isn’t having play pee accidents or pee accidents (probably because she can take care or that super easily by leaving the deck just a small amount).

This first poo this week was a pretty nice day here. 40s. Then it was gross again, lower than 20 yesterday. I think I let her in when barking. Not she was too cold. But she didn’t let me know she needed to go back out. This accident happened quickly so she needed to go when she went outside and she got herself distracted.

Thank you for opinions on anxiety/etc. She might not be perfectly potty trained for all situations. I would not have thought of it. In late Jan. and sometimes in February I did spend more time standing around in the yard when she was barky. I do think possibly she distracts herself from getting the job done. My presence made the barking more minimal so I just stuck it out and waited for her to start sniffing out a spot. But the cold probably plays a part too. I stood out with her maybe most days that it was less than fifteen degrees in Jan-Feb. For temp at forty it’s possible that snow melt mud was getting her whole paws too cold. I don’t know. It was raining two or three days ago also, which is the most gross of all; 30s or 40s and rainy. Snow feels better.

Anyway, standing outside with her, moreso than some treats, I thought took care of things a couple months ago. I was out with her yesterday because I didn’t want a third day but I guess she didn’t 100% go, so this is really frustrating. I didn’t know they could relapse on potty skills; and so late or after a couple months no indoor accidents. I do understand we have to re-do things for a while, and also probably wait an extra while. The spring weather is new to her. It’s my least favorite season so I hate it out there too, if that really is the issue. I hate March-May, different every two days. We’ll just be outside from 4-6 probably!
 

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I'm going to say she's not as potty trained as you think she is. She's only 9 months old, and you live here in Minnesota (like I do). Yesterday's weather SUCKED. It may have simply been that she didn't really want to go out in it or waited to long or....

Just my two cents, as someone with an 8 month old puppy at home...I don't trust him near that much to tell me he needs to go out!
I've never lived in that kind of weather
I always wondered how you potty train in that weather. I live in the desert of CA and potty training was easy.......every hour she went out and weather was not an issue.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I've never lived in that kind of weather
I always wondered how you potty train in that weather. I live in the desert of CA and potty training was easy.......every hour she went out and weather was not an issue.
Sounds like you have an ideal climate for a doberman.

I tried some booties for my pup in Dec. Dumbest things ever. Snow turned into ice around her ankles. She had to get very cold feet to go to the bathroom. Luckily there is open dirt ground under my deck, snow free. That’s her area. I’d almost recommend a shelter like this for them, a little lean-to or anything. I shoveled snow out of the part of yard for her too though, and a dog run. I’m sure that isn’t uncommon. But I didn’t have her younger than 5 months. She’s the youngest dog I’ve adopted. Why I don’t understand her potty problems well I guess. I’ve adopted adolescents.
 

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Sometimes booties are a help in hot weather, too--especially desert climates. Sand, pavement and blacktopped roads can get hot enough to burn.

If I'm going to walk when it's hot (upper 70's and above, depending on how much sun there is) I always check out the temp of the surfaces the dogs will be walking on. If it's not comfortable to touch with the back of your hand for 10 seconds or so, it's likely too hot for the dog's pads too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
f I'm going to walk when it's hot (upper 70's and above, depending on how much sun there is) I always check out the temp of the surfaces the dogs will be walking on.
good reminder - I avoided hottest days with my older dog (maybe part fail because weirdly, upper 70s is not hot in Minnesota and 20s aren’t very cold). I do have to treat the dogs very differently. My older dog and I could go for walks at ten degrees. I love walking at that temp. I would never subject Anouk to that. This is a good chart for finding a way to not totally generalize (like 20 degrees = death for all dogs). My dog is not a northern breed but his mom was about half husky and he seems to carry that undercoat in winter. I don’t walk him in sunlight or very warm temps. I was thinking how nice I have a pup who can walk in warm weather but yeah, I’ll have to remember to check the pavement. She will like walking mostly on shaded trails in the woods. Our town is proving boring, which is true.
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Speaking of potty training and reasons. A dog who is sick may at first show it by changing their potty habits.

Loki who has been sick and not had an accident inside for 2.5 years has pooped and peed in the house several times, a few of which were my fault..... since he is taking different meds and trying to get better from a tumor and possible cancer. He also has gotten used to using the porch and carport, but that is because he HATES the rain. Maybe he did use those dryer potty areas before he got sick but not often and it is VERY wet out here near Los Angeles this year. Can blue sky, dry with high pressure for days // spring come soon?? Like tomorrow please???

Good luck everyone!
 

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Sometimes booties are a help in hot weather, too--especially desert climates. Sand, pavement and blacktopped roads can get hot enough to burn.

If I'm going to walk when it's hot (upper 70's and above, depending on how much sun there is) I always check out the temp of the surfaces the dogs will be walking on. If it's not comfortable to touch with the back of your hand for 10 seconds or so, it's likely too hot for the dog's pads too.
Sometimes booties are a help in hot weather, too--especially desert climates. Sand, pavement and blacktopped roads can get hot enough to burn.

If I'm going to walk when it's hot (upper 70's and above, depending on how much sun there is) I always check out the temp of the surfaces the dogs will be walking on. If it's not comfortable to touch with the back of your hand for 10 seconds or so, it's likely too hot for the dog's pads too.
Here it is 110 degrees F. my one year old goes out there every day and lays in the heat the turns over and bake the other side.
Just about everyone I know says the same thing about their dog. I would never walk the dog in this heat. I don't take the dog in the car while blasting the AC.
It's just funny how they will go out there in the heat of the day and bake themselves for Maybe ten minutes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Here it is 110 degrees F. my one year old goes out there every day and lays in the heat the turns over and bake the other side.
Just about everyone I know says the same thing about their dog. I would never walk the dog in this heat. I don't take the dog in the car while blasting the AC.
It's just funny how they will go out there in the heat of the day and bake themselves for Maybe ten minutes.
If it snows 8” I shovel little dog runs and outlets for my small dog with stick legs. She has some alopecia inside legs and armpits. She just hops through the snow anyway. But I can say I tried to do my best. Maybe she hasn’t figured out how ice balls in the paws form yet or doesn’t care. I do dry her paws off.
 
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