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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone heard of them? Are they good dogs? What I do know is most German Dogs are bred larger then their American counter parts. When the day comes that Max is no longer with us, we want to get a male Dobe & a female German Sheppard.

Brittany breeds Dobes, GSDs & Rottweilers. I didn't see a weight on the dobes, but they list a Rotty at 170 & a GSD at 140.

I know there has been debates on here & some members say some of the Dobes from other breeders look like Great Danes, so how does anyone find out for sure?

Also, how does anyone know if a breeder is breeding for a bigger size like the German's instead of breeding to get a smaller dog like here. I know Dobes & GSDs are getting a bit smaller then they were even 10 years ago. Also in reading, I know the 1st dobes looked almost identical to a rotty excpet it had a longer snout & a bit taller, but weight & body shape were very similar.

Just asking questions before I ever shell out cash to someone.
 

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SamHayne said:
Anyone heard of them? Are they good dogs? What I do

Also, how does anyone know if a breeder is breeding for a bigger size like the German's instead of breeding to get a smaller dog like here. I know Dobes & GSDs are getting a bit smaller then they were even 10 years ago. Also in reading, I know the 1st dobes looked almost identical to a rotty excpet it had a longer snout & a bit taller, but weight & body shape were very similar.

Just asking questions before I ever shell out cash to someone.
I can't comment on GSD, but there's no truth to the idea dobermans are smaller than they were 10 years ago.

The original dobermans were nowhere NEAR the size of a rottie. The first doberman standard, adopted in 1899, called for males to be 21.6-23.6" at the withers, bitches to be 18.8-21.6" at the withers.

If it were me, I'd run fast and far away from anyone billing themselves as breeding "giant" dobermans.
 

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The rottie is SEVERLY overweight.
 

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SamHayne said:
Anyone heard of them? Are they good dogs? What I do know is most German Dogs are bred larger then their American counter parts. When the day comes that Max is no longer with us, we want to get a male Dobe & a female German Sheppard.

Brittany breeds Dobes, GSDs & Rottweilers. I didn't see a weight on the dobes, but they list a Rotty at 170 & a GSD at 140.

I know there has been debates on here & some members say some of the Dobes from other breeders look like Great Danes, so how does anyone find out for sure?

Also, how does anyone know if a breeder is breeding for a bigger size like the German's instead of breeding to get a smaller dog like here. I know Dobes & GSDs are getting a bit smaller then they were even 10 years ago. Also in reading, I know the 1st dobes looked almost identical to a rotty excpet it had a longer snout & a bit taller, but weight & body shape were very similar.

Just asking questions before I ever shell out cash to someone.
Ummmm I'd be running in the other direction. Oversize is oversize. The standard in Europe does not allow for a much larger Doberman than the American standard. If you are looking for a reputable breeder, I'd start with the DPCA list of breeders and then check them out carefully. Not every breeder on that list is reputable.........but it is a good place to start.
 

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Sam,

If you want a giant breed buy a giant breed but you'll find that the health problems are extensive and the life expectancy is short. It's one of the hazards of giant breed dogs.

Dobes are not supposed to be huge--anyone advertising "giants" is a dead give away for dogs that you really don't want to own. Part of the reason Dobes have so many health problems has to do with their size--they are supposed to be a medium sized breed but in point of fact they are very close in size to a giant breed.

When the FCI changed the standard for the German Doberman they changed it to match what was being bred in Germany--a dog with a straighter front and a skislope topline. If the German Dobes had the angulation that the original standards called for the size would still be nearly what the AKC standard calls for.

Find a better breeder. Dobes were not bigger 10 years ago or 20 years ago. I've had Dobes since 1959--there are always a few oversized dogs but the vast majority of the Dobermans are in the appropriate size range as called for by the standard in this country--24 to 26 inches for bitches and 26 to 28 inches for dogs.

RM (Bug) Russell
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Murreydobe said:
I can't comment on GSD, but there's no truth to the idea dobermans are smaller than they were 10 years ago.

The original dobermans were nowhere NEAR the size of a rottie.
Well I'm not here to fight, but I graduated in 1988. My best friend ALWAYS had dobes for pets & I can't tell you how tall they were, but I can tell every one of them was closer to 100 pounds then they were to 80 & it wasn't from being fat & over weight. These were worked, muscular dogs that could run all day.

I'll also say your ideas on the Rottweiler are from todays current breed, which again shows dog standards change. There are books most pest stores carry called The Popular Dog series. I own the Doberman Pinschers one. In it, it states
"Interestlingly, during the late 1800's, the Doberman is noted to have looked very similar to the Rottweiler, also known as the Butcher's Dog. Van der Zwan reveals in his book - In The Begining...A History Of The Doberman, that the resemblance was so close between the Rottweiler & Doberman that Otto Settegast, a judge & great proponent of the Doberman, wrote that the Doberman 'was so similar to the Rottweiler that you could not tell if it was a bad Rottweiler or a good Dobermann apart from the cropped ears.' It then says, "keep in mind that the Rottweilers of the late 1800's looked very different from the Rottweiler of today, being much leggier & lighter in body."

So yes, I do read & have discovered alot about the dogs I want to own. I am also not looking for a GIANT BREED of dog like was also suggested. I am just looking for the best pet possible when the time comes. I don't want a show dog, so if it meets show standards means nothing to me. Max is about 5, so he has plenty of years left before I go looking to buy another dog.

I just asked if anyone ever heard about Brittany Madison & her dogs. & it sounds as if only 1 of you have even heard of her.

Here is the e-mail she sent me.
"Dear Brett,
Be careful what you take for truth from what you read. The Europeans are dumping their junk on the clueless Americans. Oh but for the novelty of the import.
Yes, all of our Dobies leave here cropped and standing.
Our website is www.brittanysanimalkingdom.com Attached is more info on our dogs.
Sincerely,
Brittany Madison"

Then here are the attachments that also say some of what they do as breeders. All pictures are clickable & enlarge so you can read them.





The website also says they have a 2 years "warrantee" or whatever you want to call it, on the dogs hips, so baisically if you get a dog from them & it developes bad hips in the 1st 2 years you own him, you can get a new dog. That to me is odd. I guess I don't look at a dog & car as the same thing. I guess it's good they stand behind their dogs to an extent, but unless I found out a breeder had a history of producing dogs with health issues, I don't know if I'd ever try to collect on something like that.

I bought Max 1 day before he was supposed to be put down at the Humane Society. He was there twice & I don't know why because he's an awsome dog. The reason no one was taking him this time is because he had a bad right front leg. Somehwere along his life he had a major break in it. Either it wasn't taken care of, or it got messed up in the healing. We got him & within a year of owning him, had a surgery done to take the bowing out of it. They cut it & screwed a steal plate to it to straighten it. His foot still isn't perfect, as it points to the right, but he is 100 times better & never shows that it bothers him. He has a slight limp, but that is due to both legs not being exactly the same length. Anyway, off topic.

So, with all the above, I found out alot of what I wanted to know. If we're all still here in 5 to 10 years, I'll keep you posted on who I get puppies from.
 

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those dogs are disgusting - they ARE fat, and its grossly disturbing.

i see nothing on that website that would make me go to her EVER, even if all i wanted was a pet - as a pet owner, you deserve just as much change of having a healthy, structurally correct dog with a sound temperament, as anyone wanting a show or performance prospect.

if you dont care about LOOKS, go to a rescue. there are plenty of wonderful dogs of all shapes and sizes, ages, colors, etc in rescue.

if youre going to go to a breeder- go to a responsible, ethical one. which would NOT be this breeder. what health testing, what titling, what proof of a solid temperament, structurally correct dog do they have? that their dogs do off leash recalls int he backyard? great - so does my 10 month old puppy. that their dogs have standing ears before they are shipped? wonderfull - with that crop and so much bell left, id hope so. that their dogs wont have crippling HD before 2 years old? id hope not - theres a reason you cant TEST a dog for OFA before 2 years old - because hips arent fully developed and its HARD to say if a dog is dysplastic before that, unless its VERY severe. and if you get a dog so crippled by the disease from her, do you REALLY think you want to go back to them for a SECOND dog?

sorry - that breeder disgusts me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
doberkim said:
those dogs are disgusting - they ARE fat, and its grossly disturbing.

i see nothing on that website that would make me go to her EVER, even if all i wanted was a pet - as a pet owner, you deserve just as much change of having a healthy, structurally correct dog with a sound temperament, as anyone wanting a show or performance prospect.

if you dont care about LOOKS, go to a rescue. there are plenty of wonderful dogs of all shapes and sizes, ages, colors, etc in rescue.

if youre going to go to a breeder- go to a responsible, ethical one. which would NOT be this breeder. what health testing, what titling, what proof of a solid temperament, structurally correct dog do they have? that their dogs do off leash recalls int he backyard? great - so does my 10 month old puppy. that their dogs have standing ears before they are shipped? wonderfull - with that crop and so much bell left, id hope so. that their dogs wont have crippling HD before 2 years old? id hope not - theres a reason you cant TEST a dog for OFA before 2 years old - because hips arent fully developed and its HARD to say if a dog is dysplastic before that, unless its VERY severe. and if you get a dog so crippled by the disease from her, do you REALLY think you want to go back to them for a SECOND dog?

sorry - that breeder disgusts me.

& this is why I don't bring things like this up usually here.

1st, I never said anything for or against this breeder. I asked if anyone knew anything about her.

2nd, you have put 2 different points together to make one against her. I said my friend from school had dobes that were close to 100 pounds & they were not fat. His didn't come from this breeder & I never said this breeders wasn't showing fat dogs.

I simply put up things from an e-mail I got after I sent her one to question some things. All these questions you posted about her, well those would be good questions to post to her, not me, as there is nothing on her website or in the e-mail she sent that could tell you those things.

Kim, you get angry alot & it seems you are placing that anger to me, but I am not the breeder. I was someone with questions. I see this alot on this forum as well. Someone asks questions & instead of getting helpful information, they usually get anger & holier than thou attitudes that only start fights & drive them away from here. If you think a breeder is unethical & breeding bad dogs, why not start up something to get that breeder stopped?

As for rescues, Umm, yeah, I know about resuces. I also know about the Humane Society's across the country filled with dogs & other animals because of the millions of unethical owners who think a pet is something you can just throw away after you get bored of it. If you read, my current dog came from the humane society. I never thought of getting a Doberman until I got him. He is the reason I want a Doberman puppy after he is no longer with me. & just for the record, I won't be getting any dog that has to be shipped to me. I'll find someone within driving distance of my home.
 

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SamHayne said:
The website also says they have a 2 years "warrantee" or whatever you want to call it, on the dogs hips
As Kim said, one can't get the hips OFA checked on a dog until after it has turned 2. So breeders like this very conveniently get out of their "warrantee". Nice loophole.

And like she said, if it were crippled with obvious dysplasia by the time it was 2, what does that tell you? That the dogs were poorly bred in the first place ... and they're going to give you another? No thanks.

But anyway, so they warrantee hips. Big woo. What ELSE? What about the problems that Dobermans are prone to? No mention of vWD, no mention of cardiac problems, no mention of thyroid, no mention of eye problems (more common in the European Dobermans). Also, no mention of even testing for those problems.

All that magical thinking about compliant puppies really made me laugh. What a load of hooey.
 

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SamHayneAs for rescues said:
Taking that a step further, Sam, it is my opinion that most often those pets were sold to unethical owners by unethical, irresponsible breeders. Like the one you have mentioned - the type of breeder that cares so little for the breed that they muck around with it and don't pay any attention to what the breed is supposed to even look like.

It's EASY to breed a dog to no standard, which is what is being done by this Brittany person. It's HARD to actually pay attention to a written standard and strive to meet it.

The bottom line is that most throwaway pets come from irresponsible breeders.
 

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I must agree.. with the dobe in those pictures.. the last one he was fat.. he wasnt sleek and slender at all.. and his chest was way to big sitting down.. he sure doesnt look like a great dog to be breeding.. but for the shepards they do look good.. at least to me.. i have always been a fan of shepards.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
MaryAndDobes said:
Taking that a step further, Sam, it is my opinion that most often those pets were sold to unethical owners by unethical, irresponsible breeders. Like the one you have mentioned - the type of breeder that cares so little for the breed that they muck around with it and don't pay any attention to what the breed is supposed to even look like.

It's EASY to breed a dog to no standard, which is what is being done by this Brittany person. It's HARD to actually pay attention to a written standard and strive to meet it.

The bottom line is that most throwaway pets come from irresponsible breeders.
well again, as I said to Kim, this is all stuff you should find out about the breeder & ask them instead of jumping on me for asking if anyone heard about them. I wanted to know if anyone heard about dogs coming from there & having problems. I have to say alot of the things you brought up, unless you people are vets or officials, you have onl given opinion of the dogs they show on the site. When I get asked a question like "what health testing, what titling, what proof of a solid temperament, structurally correct dog do they have?" I have to say, because I haven't heard anything about the breeder, none. But my question is, do you have proof that they don't have any of that? & that would be part of the reason I asked if anyone heard anything about them.

I'd also say you statement about dogs in Humane Society's is pretty hard to say. I mean I can only go by my local HS, but when I see signs with the reason they are giving up a dog is because they are moving & don't want to take him with, or people I know who had a dog for 2 weeks & got rid of it because it was too much work & took up too much time. That isn't breeder, that is someone having a dog that shouldn't.

Sorry, I'm ending this now because I can see it is leading to nothing good. I listed the site. The site has an e-mail. If this is stirring up all these emotions in you, why not e-mail Brittany & ask her & see if you get any answers to your questions. The things you are asking me are the things I wanted to know if anyone knew about her.
 

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Although I'm sure I am coming in a little late I did look at the web site, My Hubby has a thing for larger than standard bred dogs. The shephard's do look very nice, not the huge slope in the rear, Wow those rotties are enormous, they look like they have been mixed with a Newfie or something. As for the Dobes, I would be leary of anyone who doesn't acknowledge anything beyond HD in their "Warrantee". HD is not one of the more prominent issues with Dobes, so it is a very safe way to protect themselves, I would think they have more problems with Hypo-thyroids and Cardiamyopathy than bad hips. I know you were wanting to hear from people who actually know something about the breeder, sorry I can't help there. Myself, if I really wanted to know about them I would email them and ask for references so you could talk to people who have purchased their dogs, (not family members of course) I would really like to know the average life expectancy myself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Red Girl said:
Myself, if I really wanted to know about them I would email them and ask for references so you could talk to people who have purchased their dogs, (not family members of course) I would really like to know the average life expectancy myself.

That is how I got the e-mail from her. I asked alot more then what she answered, but I started this thread 1st & then found her site address & e-mailed her. The fact that all but 2 of my questions went unanswered & then she attached her sales pitch with pictures is the reason I wouldn't deal with them.
 

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you asked what we thought about a breeder, and we are telling you. I don't think any of the things being said are being directed at you. However, you do seem to be leaning towards defending this breeder of obviously poor quality dogs. There are several of us on here who are members in good standing with either the DPCA or the DPCC (Canada), and we spend a lot of our free time trying to steer people away from breeders like Brittany's Gentle Giants. Some of us are breeders, one of us is even a Vet........all of us support rescue. When you have done this for a few years, you tend to get to the point quickly instead of sugar coating the truth. If you don't want the truth, then there are lists who will be glad to lie to you........ several of us have been kicked off of those lists for telling the truth......not everyone is interested in the truth - so be it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
velmadobe said:
you asked what we thought about a breeder, and we are telling you. I don't think any of the things being said are being directed at you.
No, I asked if anyone KNEW anything about her. By asking what anyone knew of her, I was asking if people knew if there were problems with her animals, if people had complaints about anumals they bought from her. I also pointed out, the thread was started before I found her web site & had a chance to e-mail her myself. What I got back from her was enough for me to form my own opinion of what she is doing.
 

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SamHayne said:
I'd also say you statement about dogs in Humane Society's is pretty hard to say. I mean I can only go by my local HS, but when I see signs with the reason they are giving up a dog is because they are moving & don't want to take him with, or people I know who had a dog for 2 weeks & got rid of it because it was too much work & took up too much time. That isn't breeder, that is someone having a dog that shouldn't.
Those dogs came from a breeder, didn't they? All puppies originate with a breeder, be it a good one or a bad one. The GOOD ones screen their homes carefully and try their best to determine it isn't the sort of home that dumps a dog when they move or who doesn't have the commitment to last a lifetime. AND they have contracts in place saying the dog must be returned if the owner can't keep it. Additionally, the GOOD ones will have made sure the dogs were tattooed or microchipped so the breeder can be located.

It is rare for a dog from a responsible breeder to land in a shelter. They've taken steps to prevent it, and that does reduce the risk. Of course it does happen sometimes and when it does, when contacted the responsible breeder will take the dog back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
MaryAndDobes said:
Those dogs came from a breeder, didn't they? All puppies originate with a breeder, be it a good one or a bad one. The GOOD ones screen their homes carefully and try their best to determine it isn't the sort of home that dumps a dog when they move or who doesn't have the commitment to last a lifetime. AND they have contracts in place saying the dog must be returned if the owner can't keep it. Additionally, the GOOD ones will have made sure the dogs were tattooed or microchipped so the breeder can be located.

It is rare for a dog from a responsible breeder to land in a shelter. They've taken steps to prevent it, and that does reduce the risk. Of course it does happen sometimes and when it does, when contacted the responsible breeder will take the dog back.
I'm not even going to get it to this anymore. I was again asking if anyone knew anything about Brittany's animals. Doberkim told me to go to a shelter or rescue if I didn't care if I had a dog that met every standard set. I then responded that my current dog came from the Humane Society. So how does any of this pertain to Brittany?
 

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SamHayne said:
I'm not even going to get it to this anymore. I was again asking if anyone knew anything about Brittany's animals. Doberkim told me to go to a shelter or rescue if I didn't care if I had a dog that met every standard set. I then responded that my current dog came from the Humane Society. So how does any of this pertain to Brittany?
No, I don't think any of us know Brittany personally.......but weve seen dozens just like her/him, and all the red flags are there if you know what to look for. You seem to want one of us to come out and say we know her personally.......and we don't. I am on the east coast of the USA so I would not know any of her dogs personally. Does that help?
 
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