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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Cher and I went to the schutzhund seminar today with Les Flores put on by one of the local schutzhund clubs. The day started off with a couple hours of tracking instruction for the attendees and their dogs, followed by a couple hours of obedience, followed by a huge lunch, then protection work, and ended up with the instructor evaluating Cher for her suitability for schutzhund work. He didn't hold high hopes AT ALL all day (before he ever met her) because:
A) she's a dreaded "show dog"
B) she's a dreaded doberman (strong preference for mals, GSD's and dutch sheps)
C) she's had no training what-so-ever and she's already 16 months old

Well she surprised everyone (frankly including myself). Les was quite pleased with her evaluation and thinks she shows a very good natural prey drive and good confidence. He said she did quite well and I should be pleased. She did and I am. :biggthump
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Julie, how did they evaluate her?
A combination of simply observing her sociability and confidence in the crowd of people, (she was calm, confident, and friendly) observing her focus on me when I briefly taught her to sit and focus (she didn't take her very focused gaze off me even for a second) then by having us stand in the middle of the field by ourselves while he hid behind one of the screens and then appeared looking very shifty and suspicious (but not outwardly aggressive) and approaching us. She went forward to the end of her leash and stared at him intently the entire time, never lacking confidence, but never showing aggression. When he got up to us he started waving a toy around and enticed her to play. He would wave the toy in huge swings over his head and then down toward her and she was very playful, vigorous and confident playing with him, never flinching from the swinging toy coming at her, but confidently and playfully attacking it.

I gather from the response I got that everyone expected an adult doberman with an owner/handler that is new to them to be much more freaked out. The instructor said in his experience he would have expected her to be more timid, uncertain and less focused. He likened the stereotypical doberman compared to the other more popular schutzhund breeds to be more A.D.D. child-like, that they don't typically stay focused without being distracted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Sounds like you guys had fun. Did you get an pictures???
I was the only non-shep. there and I guess I didn't really have much drive to photograph gsd's. Since I was the one handling Cher, I couldn't very well get pictures of her.
 

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Cher and I went to the schutzhund seminar today with Les Flores put on by one of the local schutzhund clubs. The day started off with a couple hours of tracking instruction for the attendees and their dogs, followed by a couple hours of obedience, followed by a huge lunch, then protection work, and ended up with the instructor evaluating Cher for her suitability for schutzhund work. He didn't hold high hopes AT ALL all day (before he ever met her) because:
A) she's a dreaded "show dog"
B) she's a dreaded doberman (strong preference for mals, GSD's and dutch sheps)
C) she's had no training what-so-ever and she's already 16 months old

Well she surprised everyone (frankly including myself). Les was quite pleased with her evaluation and thinks she shows a very good natural prey drive and good confidence. He said she did quite well and I should be pleased. She did and I am. :biggthump
Well, Kudos to you!! I always say that a good Doberman is a good Doberman, and a lot of show dogs would do just fine in all those situations. If I had a good club near me and a little more time, I'd love to do an evaluation. I think Schutzhund would be a lot of fun.
 

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If I had a good club near me and a little more time, I'd love to do an evaluation. I think Schutzhund would be a lot of fun.
me too!!! lol Duchess wont give her toys for anything...we can very well pick her up off the ground lol she just wont give...Im starting to get her to give once and awhile in ways without bribing her with a treat HAHAHAHAH :) im bad. lol.
Glad you had a good time! :) sounds like a lot of fun!
 

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Julie, that sounds like fun. Good for you and Cher. I think the "well rounded" dog, or whatever it's called is the one who gets to do lots of different things. Keep up the good work, and good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I think the "well rounded" dog, or whatever it's called is the one who gets to do lots of different things.
You really hit the nail on the head with that one. My goal isn't to have the next hot schutzhund competitor. Lord knows I already have a full plate with all of my current hobbies, dog and other-wise. I agree with you though that the more different actitivies and training you do with your dog the happier and more well rounded they are. That is my purpose.
 

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Awesome to hear! Do you plan on presuing Schutzhund further?
 

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IME "they" always say that. With the last one to say something like that to me, which he said *before* he worked my dog, I asked him if he had ever worked a Doberman before. He said no, but he was looking forward to it. Yet before I asked him that question he had been telling me all about Dobermans in bitesport. How they bite, how they dont hold on, they do this, they do that, they need more time, etc, etc. I've never found any of it to be true. I've Dobermans who just weren't cut out for bitesports at all, but the ones who were didn't do any of the things people are always saying they do. The things "they" are always saying Dobermans do are always negative.

Specifically about the ADD remark, it seems to be an updated version of the remark I used to hear all the time which was that Dobermans slash and let go, they don't grip. Some Dobermans may slash and let go, none of mine did.

I think my Doberman Mic actually DID have ADHD, yet on the protection field, I think a bomb could have gone off out there and it wouldn't have distracted him from the sleeve.

In 1977 when I took my first Doberman to a schutzhund club, all the dogs there, and it was a pretty big club, were GSDs. All that has changed now, 30 years later, is that there are more Malinois in with the GSDs. Their opinion of Dobermans doesn't seem to have changed at all. Along with that, their knowledge of Dobermans hasn't increased either.


"I gather from the response I got that everyone expected an adult doberman with an owner/handler that is new to them to be much more freaked out. The instructor said in his experience he would have expected her to be more timid, uncertain and less focused. He likened the stereotypical doberman compared to the other more popular schutzhund breeds to be more A.D.D. child-like, that they don't typically stay focused without being distracted"
 

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I don't understand why they would be so down on a breed that was MADE for this work? GSD's and Mals are great also, but why do they not include the Doberman? I have also never seen a dobe used for police work. Though I have heard of one in S&R. Did they not out number the other breeds as war dogs? I'm pretty sure they were right up thier in numbers with the GSD's. So what happened? There is also no dobermans in my local Schutzhund Club. They have a boxer though...Weird.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
micdobe...
The trainer was making a wide sweeping generalization plus he was teasing me. I didn't take it personally or get my hackles up. And he has worked with dobermans himself. He never implied that they don't make fine schutzhund prospects, he was just comparing stereotypes of different breeds in the sport. His comment about being distracted was actually in the context of tracking due to their intense alertness, not the protection phase. There was one dutch shepherd at the seminar (which was sired by one of the instructor's dogs) and the rest were GSD's. I got playfully teased because not only did I have the "wrong" breed, but also because I was a show person. It was all in good fun and I took no offense. Whenever a malinois was mentioned however, nobody even teased about them. I think it's pretty much accepted in the sport that malinois are generally to be respected as a supreme schutzhund breed. I agree with the instructor that you can make breed generalizations, but in the end, every dog is an individual and they will vary widely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
I don't understand why they would be so down on a breed that was MADE for this work?
At the seminar that I went to I can't say this is true. Nobody was down on dobermans in the least. They were teasing me in good-natured fun. Actually they were all rather in awe of Cher and thought she was stunning and incredibly sweet and said as much. They were impressed with how settled she seemed with me as her new owner and how well she responded to everything without having any prior exposure to it.
 

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I didn't say I took offense. When it first happened, it shook my confidence in my dog, but by the time I got to the guy who told me all about Dobermans before saying he'd never worked one I thought it was funny because I already knew what my dog was going to do when we got on the field.

However, it is universal and it is just another side to the Doberman stereotype.

To answer Mandy, no, the Dobermans was not created for the sport of schutzhund. The sport of schutzhund didn't exist when the Doberman was created. The Doberman was created by a tax collector to go with him on his rounds and protect him, IOW a personal protection dog.

Schutzhund was created for GSDs, their creator, Max von Stephanitz felt they needed a viable "job" since herding was being phased out in the industrial age.

Schutzhund involves some things that are better suited to GSDs than to Dobermans on the whole, altho I've never known a Doberman who had trouble working away from his handler, except possibly Mic, and he was half German, he had a schutzhund gene.

With one exception everyone I talked to in the schutzhund field who proceeded to tell me all about Dobermans was not doing it in a "mean" way. They weren't teasing either tho, they really thought that Dobermans either wouldn't "work", or would work poorly.

The exception was a man from Germany who ran the local schutzhund club here when it was the only club around. I called to inquire about taking my dog there since I'd just moved into the area and he had gone to the club in the state I'd left. The man launched into a tirade against Dobermans that was just ranting, and eventually I hung up on him. Now I wish I hadn't done that, that I'd just taken my dog out there and shown them. But some people have told me that people like that guy might just give the dog a hard time in order to make him run off so they could prove their point, but since I never went there, I don't know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Schutzhund was created for GSDs, their creator, Max von Stephanitz felt they needed a viable "job" since herding was being phased out in the industrial age.

Schutzhund involves some things that are better suited to GSDs than to Dobermans on the whole, altho I've never known a Doberman who had trouble working away from his handler, except possibly Mic, and he was half German, he had a schutzhund gene.
This is true. The sport of schutzhund was specifically created as a test of GSD temperament and is geared specifically towards them. Doing the three phases gives a "snapshot" of a GSD's temperament.
 

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How great! I wish you continued success in SchH and all you do with her. I bet she is having fun with it too! Keep us updated with lots of pics!
 

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Good for you Julie!!! There are many breeds that can "do" schutzhund but it was created for German Shepherds. I have known of aussie's who do very well in it, Bouvier's, Beauceron's (although more of a ring sport dog there are some in Schutzhund. When I was doing it years ago in LA there were many Rottweilers at the club and a few Dobermans, titled, working on on titles of varying degrees. It really depends on the dog but of course certain breeds would excell, Malinois and German Shepherds however that doesn't mean other protective breeds can not earn a title if they have what it takes. I think one of the aussie's made it to a SCH III, with a very high score (can't remember the details but close to top dog that year sitting on the platform with two gsd's )!! So *shrug* YOU GO JULIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Cher is terrific and I'm so pleased for you that her temperament is outstanding!!!!
 
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