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Discussion Starter #1
This is my first day on this board and I am dissapointed that some posters are breeding their untested, untitled dogs and others are talking about it. Yes, everyone loves their dogs, that doesn't mean they should be bred. Only the best of the best should be bred. Why? Because our breed is riddled with health problems. Breeding without doing any testing is only causing the health problems to continue.
Only titled dogs should be bred. Titled in conformation to ensure that the dog has the right structure to do the work it was bred to do. And the dog should also have passed a temperament test to make sure it is stable and has the right temperament to do the work it was bred to do. Our breed is in danger of being banned because of some dogs wiht lousy temperaments.
Genetic testing is recommended to be done after the dog is 2 years of age because many of the health problems don't occur until then.
Some of the things that need to be tested for are thyroid. Hypothyroidism is very common in Dobermans.
Cardio. although it is still no guarantee that you won't produce it. Our Dobermans are dropping like flys from this disease.
PRA is an inherited eyes disease that needs to be screened out.
Hips and elbows need to be xrayed.
vWD is a bleeding disorder that is very common in Doberman that needs to be tested for.
I'm including a link to get more information on these diseases.

http://www.dpca.org/gendisease.html

And here is a place to check out temperament testing.

http://www.dpca.org/waepic.html

http://www.atts.org/index.html

Hopefully Maryandobes will add more. I am not a breeder and she is a very reputable one and I am sure I am leaving stuff out.
This is just some stuff to consider if you do plan on breeding. There is alot more involved in it than just putting 2 intact dogs together.
 

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Yep! Our corgis breeder and first owner both wanted her bred but we couldn't even decide on a stud! I figured what was the point because even though she may have done great in a show,we never actually showed her and there ae so many that are shown that are just as great. I'm lucky around here the bybs tend to stick with rotts,which isn't good for them but I'm not at the pound everyday bailing them out. Its all too sad.
 

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This topic has bothered me too. As some of you may have read on other posts of mine we used to have an APBT. We loved her and would love to have another but we can't. We are planning on returning to Europe after Japan and can not take one with us. When we lived in Minot ND we were fine as long as we were on base but could not take Storm with us in town. When we first got to Germany she rode on the bus with us, ate in resteraunts with us, shopped with us, it was dog owner paradise but about a year before we left BSL was passed. What was a paradise became a nightmare, she had to pass a temperment test (she did with flying colors) I had to pass an aptitude test proving I was responsible enough to own the breed (neither of these criteria were bad, every breed and dog owner should have to pass these tests imo) but she also had to be on lead and muzzled at all times (no more running through the forest with her friends on our long dog walks) and I had to carry special liability insurance on her. If she was in public off lead or without a muzzle they could take her on the spot and euthanize her. The tierheim (animal shelter) became full of Pits and any Pit-crosses and weren't allowed to adopt them out. No pits can be bred, sold or imported. It's all just awful. I blame irresponsible breeders for this. Plain and simple, let's go to the source. Irresponsible breeders who breed for the almighty dollar and selfish greed. These idiots that didn't socialize their pits, that fought their pits that allowed their pits to become a public safety hazard got their dogs from somewhere and that was from irresponsible breeders because a responsible breeder wouldn't sell to such idiots.
So now I know I will never have another pit and it breaks my heart.
Please people, know what you're doing before you breed. The same thing that has already happened in Germany is happening in the States and it could just as easily be our Dobes walking around in muzzles as it is the Bully breeds. You may not sell your pups to idiots like this but can you guarantee the people who take them won't breed them and sell to the unworthy? Honestly don't want to offend or hurt any feelings but it's a simple supply and demand issue if you ask me....
 

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Good post, I needed more info because LoKi isnt being neutered because of his lineage and families temperment and health etc. but we need to sit down and see where else we need to have him certified before going foward with the bitch search.
 

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Great post CoAl-s-Mom I couldnt agree more. I am going to sticky this post and move it into the Breeders section of the forum.

DA
 

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Discussion Starter #8
TomAndKing said:
I agree 100%. I have been contacted many times for breeding, but i said no. Then i got king neutered because of his health problems.
Good for you Tom! What kind of health problems does your boy have?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
FiReBReTHa said:
Good post, I needed more info because LoKi isnt being neutered because of his lineage and families temperment and health etc. but we need to sit down and see where else we need to have him certified before going foward with the bitch search.
I would suggest to you to go to dog shows. Hang out with some Doberman people and try to get a mentor. Just because Loki's lineage has good temperament and health still does not mean that he should bred. Again, only the best of the best should be bred. A mentor would be able to give you an unbiased opinion of your dog, because we all love our dogs and think they should reproduce. I had Cole neutered when he was a puppy because I don't want the responsibility of more Doberman puppies in the world. Going by temperament and health most would want to breed him, but he isn't conformationally correct. But I love him with all my heart and he has been fantastic with my 2 kids and a great family pet. That is what most Dobermans should be.
 

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Great post! I couldn't agree more. In fact it bothers me to no end when people try to make me feel stupid or guilty because I had Ava spayed. That's the number one question I get when people meet her, "Are you going to breed her?" When I tell them she's fixed, I get a look of confusion followed by "why?" or "that's a shame"
 

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CoAl-s-Mom said:
This is my first day on this board and I am dissapointed that some posters are breeding their untested, untitled dogs and others are talking about it.
Coal's Mom did a pretty good job of mentioning what health testing should be done, although I disagree that PRA is a problem in the breed. I realize that the DPCA site specifically mentions it, or used to - not sure why as I've barely heard of it in Dobermans. However, there is another eye problem in Dobermans, PHPV (I can never remember what it stands for) that is more prevalent, and specifically more prevalent in European bloodlines.

Before breeding, IMO, a Doberman should have at least a CERF eye exam, OFA hip and elbow evaluations, a cardiac ultrasound, a 24 hour Holter monitor exam, full thyroid panel, vWD DNA test, liver and kidney panel, CBC, and brucellosis test. Hopefully, it goes without saying that whatever dog is being bred to would also have the same testing.

That's a start.

As Coal's mom said, any Doberman being bred should also be a sound representative of its breed as evidenced by a conformation title or breed survey, and should be temperament tested.
 

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CoAl-s-Mom said:
I would suggest to you to go to dog shows. Hang out with some Doberman people and try to get a mentor. Just because Loki's lineage has good temperament and health still does not mean that he should bred. Again, only the best of the best should be bred. A mentor would be able to give you an unbiased opinion of your dog, because we all love our dogs and think they should reproduce. I had Cole neutered when he was a puppy because I don't want the responsibility of more Doberman puppies in the world. Going by temperament and health most would want to breed him, but he isn't conformationally correct. But I love him with all my heart and he has been fantastic with my 2 kids and a great family pet. That is what most Dobermans should be.
thankfully i am only considering breeding based on partly on others on top of myself. every time i would start thinking about neutering him i would somehow run into a breeder who would go over him and ask about his health and intelligence etc and if i was planning on breeding him. that then bought him more time for of to think and learn. there is more that i an basing it on of course but my next thing is to somehow go to a show and see what else they think.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
MaryAndDobes said:
Coal's Mom did a pretty good job of mentioning what health testing should be done, although I disagree that PRA is a problem in the breed. I realize that the DPCA site specifically mentions it, or used to - not sure why as I've barely heard of it in Dobermans. However, there is another eye problem in Dobermans, PHPV (I can never remember what it stands for) that is more prevalent, and specifically more prevalent in European bloodlines.

Before breeding, IMO, a Doberman should have at least a CERF eye exam, OFA hip and elbow evaluations, a cardiac ultrasound, a 24 hour Holter monitor exam, full thyroid panel, vWD DNA test, liver and kidney panel, CBC, and brucellosis test. Hopefully, it goes without saying that whatever dog is being bred to would also have the same testing.

That's a start.

As Coal's mom said, any Doberman being bred should also be a sound representative of its breed as evidenced by a conformation title or breed survey, and should be temperament tested.
Thanks Mary for adding your comments. I don't have the breeding experience, just what I have learned on the boards.
 

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i agree also... not so much necessarily about the champion thing but definately about ppl wating to breed with no testing... which is the MOST IMPORTANT THING! It is unfortunate that some ppl breed without proper tests and we dont know what is in their genes...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
whiteandblue said:
i agree also... not so much necessarily about the champion thing but definately about ppl wating to breed with no testing... which is the MOST IMPORTANT THING! It is unfortunate that some ppl breed without proper tests and we dont know what is in their genes...
So did the dam and sire of your pups have all the necessary tesing?
And what is in your dogs genes? Care to mention any lines? :)
 

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yes they did... and the genetic test on my pup came back clear... and good... i have 7 yr genetic and health garauntee on him...... i will not breed him unless he is properly check out... if not sorry for him he is getting the big snip snip... lol.... and he may not like it but he will deal with it... im sure


 

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whiteandblue said:
i agree also... not so much necessarily about the champion thing but definately about ppl wating to breed with no testing... which is the MOST IMPORTANT THING! It is unfortunate that some ppl breed without proper tests and we dont know what is in their genes...
You're right. I just recently convince my dad to spay Lexy's mom, he's not pro BYB, he is just niave of the problems out there. And we need to educate not go ballistic if someone clearly just doesn't know. He wanted to breed just to have the puppies. He was going to sell them, wasn't doing all of this for a profit, just wanted to have puppies. Anyhow after MUCH time working on this (he is not always easy to communicate with to say the least!) Diedama is getting scheduled to be spayed.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
[QUOTE i have 7 yr genetic and health garauntee on him...... [/QUOTE]

So after 7 years they will replace him if he is found to have a genetic defect? Nobody would do that after owning a dog for 7 years! Sorry I find it hysterical that an albino comes with a genetic guarentee!
 
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