vom Franckenhorst

zydeco rocker said:

Is anyone in the U.S. still breeding from this line?
Thanks

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If you look for dogs with Marienburg in the pedigree, you'll probably find Dexter v. Frankenhorst back there in the pedigree somewhere. I believe Mary Rodgers (Marienburg) has Dexter semen stored-or at least I've heard about an occasional Dexter litter hitting the ground now and then since his death.

Thanks-
Zack had vom Franckenhorst in his pedigree 17 times. We loved the dog more than anything.

zydeco rocker said:

Thanks-
Zack had vom Franckenhorst in his pedigree 17 times. We loved the dog more than anything.

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I think a lot of people fall in love with a dog, and thank the line it's from, but they don't realize what is really so wonderful that they loved is that the dog was a DOBERMAN! It might be cool to find a dog from the same lines, but if you were to find a breeder with great ethics that you really could form a relationship with (one that would last for the lifetime of the dog) I think it would matter very little if the dog shared some pedigree with your old boy.

Also... May not be right to bring this up, but doesn't one of our members refer to this dog as Dexter V. Screwloose? I think they had a good reason.

Abby said:

I think a lot of people fall in love with a dog, and thank the line it's from, but they don't realize what is really so wonderful that they loved is that the dog was a DOBERMAN! It might be cool to find a dog from the same lines, but if you were to find a breeder with great ethics that you really could form a relationship with (one that would last for the lifetime of the dog) I think it would matter very little if the dog shared some pedigree with your old boy.

Also... May not be right to bring this up, but doesn't one of our members refer to this dog as Dexter V. Screwloose? I think they had a good reason.

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Well I know my boy had dexter in his pedigree a few times and I must say he was one of the soundest temperamented dogs I have ever been around.. they do have mothers too.. cant blame a stud dog for everything.
JMHO

Zack was the sweetest most loving dog I have ever seen. Puppies in the Dog park would literally grab his manhood and he never ever growled. The Mayor of Indianapolis wrote a letter of reference for him and Zack made the newspapers. What I want is to roll on the floor in hysterical laughter as my dog gives me "pinchy" bites until I can't take it any more.

Deb-
Thanks.

Abby said:

I think a lot of people fall in love with a dog, and thank the line it's from, but they don't realize what is really so wonderful that they loved is that the dog was a DOBERMAN! It might be cool to find a dog from the same lines, but if you were to find a breeder with great ethics that you really could form a relationship with (one that would last for the lifetime of the dog) I think it would matter very little if the dog shared some pedigree with your old boy.

Also... May not be right to bring this up, but doesn't one of our members refer to this dog as Dexter V. Screwloose? I think they had a good reason.

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Yes. It may have come up in one of my threads or one I was on. Both my boys who were put down had Dexter in the pedigree. I was told (and I have no way to confirm) that the issue in their pedigree was Marienburg Simplicity and Dexter was her sire. The dam was Mardale Rising Calafia. Again, it takes two to tango and I know plenty of people with Dexter offspring, and ancestors who have quite wonderful dogs.

Thank you Colleen.

Quite a few of the European show lines have some Frankenhorst in their bloodlines. There is pretty much good and bad in every line. Yes, there have been many Dexter offspring that were too much dog for their owners, but that may not be altogether the dog's fault. Also, there are many in Europe that blame Frankenhorst for the spread of DCM mostly through their breedings that trace back to Andy v Eichenhain through his in-bred double grandaughter, Amarilda v.d. Wachenburg. Of course, there are no DCM free lines and Dexter himself leved to 13, it shows you never know.

Just about every European show pedigree will trace back to Franckenhorst since the two major studs of the 80's (Ebo v.d. Groote Maat and Hertog Alpha le Dobry) were descended from Alva and Don-Dayan v. Franckenhorst respectively. Franckenhost is pretty much unavoidable in European pedigrees, but mostly it's pretty far back at this point. I think the last Franckenhorst litter that had a lasting international impact was the Z-Litter, which was whelped in the early 90's.

Here in America I think Mary Rodgers of Marienburg completely revamped her breeding line around Dexter, and Ray Carlisle also used Dexter in his breeding program. Still, you'll be hard pressed to find anything of Franckenhorst up close in the pedigree.

It's not always that far back when stored semen is used though.

It certainly takes two to tango...so the dams have to be selected fairly carefully to balance the dominant civility that some of these sires appear to pass on....otherwise you can end up with way too much dog on your hands ....and yes....even trips to the blood bank. I can think of one sire here in Australia that was just such a dog, and it wasn't unheard of in his progeny (even to grandchild level) either. ...and yes...he was from (some of) those lines

The thick nerve also seems to come through...so there's an upside to these dogs too....it's all about balance (and a little bit of luck)...a balanced dog with strong drives is a work of fine art. (IMHO)

I don't have any real personal experience with these dogs, or special insight, but I tend to believe that when there's smoke, there's probably also fire. I've been exposed to a lot of first hand information that indicates that there is aggression issues centered around the D-Litter Franckenhorst. It's there in the immediate ancestors, and here in NA in the descendants of Dexter. Also, it seems that w/e the issue actually is, Dexter produced it out of a variety of different, unrelated bitches.

Without hands on knowledge it's hard to say what the truth is. Is it bad temperament? Or just too much dog? Even in Europe there is disagreement / uncertainty / confusion about what exactly is being demonstrated by these dogs.

Elka has Dea Dolores vom Franckenhorst in her pedigree (a frew generations back. I'm at work and don't have the pedigree accesible), though I would not recommend her breeder (a Kimberal franchise, essentially) and I do think any of that part of the breeding happened with dogs still in Europe, not stateside; she seems to have been used by Neerlands Stam. Dolores, if Dobermann review is correct, died at 8 of cancer.

I'm not sure if it's helpful, but it's what I've got.

Abby said:

I think a lot of people fall in love with a dog, and thank the line it's from, but they don't realize what is really so wonderful that they loved is that the dog was a DOBERMAN!

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Very true. On the contrary line breeding does tend lament certain traits, be it nerve, character, temperament, looks, or otherwise.

i had a dog quite a few years ago a beautiful red male who was doubled up on dexter vom frankenhorst probably one of the most unsound temperments i have ever seen. he would hide under the table if i was not around one day i was feeding the other dogs he ran out from under the table and tried to bite my little niece in the face unprovoked he had already been fed i was feeding the other dogs he crossed the line that day and i put him down he was too unpredictable he was put down shortly thereafter. i wont have a dog in my house with an unsound temperment i dont care how pretty they are. just my experience with that particular line.

I owned Two Towers Hiline Largo (a Dexter son) for a period of time (1987-1988). He was a diplomat for the breed. He was a showman in the ring if handled properly. I knew he had the right stuff, he would win even though I would fall at a turn in the ring. I really miss him.