[TracyJo]

Senate committee to endorse ban on cropping of dogs' ears
January 28, 2006

MONTPELIER, Vt. --Legislation to ban the cosmetic surgery of cropping a dog's ears appears likely to win endorsement of a Senate committee.
January 28, 2006

Four of the five members of the Senate Judiciary Committee said they plan to support the bill. Those comments came after veterinarians said they backed the ban.


"We are a group of medical professionals, but this is not medicine," said Karen Bradley, a Montpelier vet. "Just because it is a procedure we do does not mean it is right."

Ear cropping involves slicing off the back half of a dog's ear and then resetting it usually with tape when the dog is between 12 and 14 weeks old.

The cosmetic procedure is already banned in many European countries, as well as Australia and New Zealand, they said.

"I listened to the evidence, and the evidence said for us to become the first state in the union to ban this is a good thing," said Sen. Richard Sears, D-Bennington, the committee's chairman.

"There is still a long way to go" before a ban becomes law, Sears said. "But we will continue to push to see if we can get support."

Dog breeders oppose the ban. Out-of-state dog owners have threatened to boycott Vermont's three dog shows if ear-cropping is banned, they said.

The three shows, all held in Essex on consecutive days in July, bring the state an estimated $225,000 annually, they said.

"You can't imagine the furor that will come," said Ed Peterson, founder of the Vermont Federation of Dog Clubs. "It may affect us very materially."

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[Jedski]

Thanks for posting TracyJo. As my knowledge of cropping is very limited, I will be interested to hear other forum members' views. I notice that the article only mentions cropping, not docking and dew claw removal.

 

[hotpursuit]

as much as i love our breed i feel the government involvement will cause myself and others to search for future different breeds... imho the dobe was bred and cropped originally for reasons... and i for one would want to stay true to the breed as it was years ago....

guess plastic surgery and fake.... umm ya know should be outlawed too, but it wont as too much money made doin that.... arrrghhhh

 

[theuer]

I agree, if they outlaw cropping then the govt should outlaw all cosmetic surgery. Govt controls.....Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr..........

 

[LapDog]

so if it was to be banned in virginia....what will they do with the rest of the US???? Will they only ban the procedure in Virginia?? so basically if you got them cropped outside of virginia...or even if you adopted the dog with cropped ears...and live in virginia...or dog shows in the U.S??? Will they continue to show only croppped? or both? I guess to me there are too many what if's for them to actually be able to carry through with this. I just don't see how they would be able to limit it to Virginia only....

 

[TracyJo]

guess plastic surgery and fake.... umm ya know should be outlawed too, but it wont as too much money made doin that.... arrrghhhh

Not that I'm "for" the ban but that argument won't get you very far. There is a huge difference between making a decision to alter your own body cosmetically and making the decision for an animal that has no say in the matter...

 

[TracyJo]

so if it was to be banned in virginia....what will they do with the rest of the US???? Will they only ban the procedure in Virginia?? so basically if you got them cropped outside of virginia...or even if you adopted the dog with cropped ears...and live in virginia...or dog shows in the U.S??? Will they continue to show only croppped? or both? I guess to me there are too many what if's for them to actually be able to carry through with this. I just don't see how they would be able to limit it to Virginia only....

Although I've not read the proposed legislation, I am assuming that it will only ban the surgical procedure within the state. I doubt that there will be a law prohibiting the ownership or purchase of cropped dogs. There is a blurp about this on the AKC site, they -obviously- do not endorse. However, I can see more and more states following the EU and their bans. Ultimately, unless enough people fight for this, the AKC will have no choice but to start recognizing uncropped dogs more seriously.

 

[Chaz]

Do they intend to ban spaying and neutering too?
Or are they happy wallowing in the filth of their own inconsistencies?
Nobody ever asked me how I felt about being circumscised.

 

[TracyJo]

Do they intend to ban spaying and neutering too?
Or are they happy wallowing in the filth of their own inconsistencies?
Nobody ever asked me how I felt about being circumscised.

This is also an invalid argument... Spaying/neutering and even circumcision (originally, although Dr's now have varying opinions) are all done for reasons other than cosmetic. Spaying and neutering not only cuts down on the unwanted animal population, it also helps prevent cancers and other debilitating diseases - as well as help against some aggression/territorial problems. The Drs and Legislators in the case seem to be most concerned about the fact that cropping is done only for aesthetic reasons. And let's face it, it is.

example. Some areas, Jedski can attest to this, have outlawed dew claw removal. Personally, I think this is insane as it is done when the pup is very young and very little pain is involved. What little pain they do suffer from during this is miniscule compared to the pain involved in ripping it off later in life. There is a health benefit to removing dew claws. It is tempting to argue that cropped dogs suffer from fewer ear infections but if that were the case the cocker spaniel community would have started cropping years ago.

Again, I'm not speaking up for the ban. I'm not neccessarily a huge fan of cropping, but I don't like the idea of so much Gov't regulation and realize that a ban on cropping could open the door to even more bans on other things in the future. I just think that if we are going to argue this case with Legislature, we need to offer sound arguments that aren't full of holes...

 

[Dobedad]

"I listened to the evidence, and the evidence said for us to become the first state in the union to ban this is a good thing," said Sen. Richard Sears, D-Bennington, the committee's chairman.

That's great that Vermont wants to rush into this just to be the first state to do it.
Maybe they should think about taking the time and money they're spending on banning cropping and spend it on a more worthwhile cause.

Whats the unemployment rate in vermont? How many kids are in abusive situations with no way out? How many people do not get urgent medical care because they cannot afford it?

To hell with that...lets try and get our state on the map by being the first in America to stop a minor canine surgery!!

 

[leibwache]

uk to stop docking

I feel for you guys at the momemnt as we have been fighting a docking ban in the uk which is going through parliment on the animal welfare bill, as breeders we have been fighting hard but i think the majority are beginning to give up hope and we are having to make the decision as to continue with our beloved breed ( with tails ), or decide otherwise, its such a shame as there are so many breeders whom have been in the breed for many years and are passionate about thier dogs and do all the health testing necessary to produce healthy, well constructed dogs with good tempraments. The majority of us would never put our pups through any undue suffering and I am sure when the ban comes in the only people who will abide buy the law will be the decent breeders whom probably will rarely have a litter but i shouldnt think it will stop the puppy farmers, and the general public will have nowhere else to go to get a pup but to them, because so many good breeder have said they will stop breeding.

 

[Codysmom]

God, why do these people have to butt into our lives in the most ridiculous ways? I can take my 12 year old, against her will, and get her an abortion in VT, but I won't be able to crop my dogs ears!?!?!?!?

don't they realize that if they ban cropping then we will be forced into taking our dogs for 'back alley cropping' the blackmarket in posting will take over the VT economy? :nana:

Don't they have anything better to do - like listen in on my cell phone calls?

I could rant about this for hours today, but I'll spare you all. Sides I gotta get back to work.

cc

 

[Deacon's-MoM]

This is just so stupid to me! With all that is going on in the world why does anyone have time to worry about this? I swear i think much of the government likes to waste focus on stuff like this so that they dont have time deal with the real problems.
Like Codys mom said the only thing that will happen when they ban cropping; there will be an increase in back alley cropping. I would never do it but there will be people that seek out anyone that is willing to crop. Then we will have a much bigger issue on inhumane treatment.

 

[Molari]

God, why do these people have to butt into our lives in the most ridiculous ways? I can take my 12 year old, against her will, and get her an abortion in VT, but I won't be able to crop my dogs ears!?!?!?!?

don't they realize that if they ban cropping then we will be forced into taking our dogs for 'back alley cropping' the blackmarket in posting will take over the VT economy? :nana:

Don't they have anything better to do - like listen in on my cell phone calls?

I could rant about this for hours today, but I'll spare you all. Sides I gotta get back to work.

cc

Actually I think that your 12 year old could get an abortion in VT without your permission but you could not force her to have one unless she wanted it. The cropping issue will be a state by state issue just like abortion if RvW is overturned, so states like Texas will allow it(cropping) but the more liberal states like Vermont will not.

 

[TracyJo]

That's great that Vermont wants to rush into this just to be the first state to do it.
Maybe they should think about taking the time and money they're spending on banning cropping and spend it on a more worthwhile cause.

Whats the unemployment rate in vermont? How many kids are in abusive situations with no way out? How many people do not get urgent medical care because they cannot afford it?

To hell with that...lets try and get our state on the map by being the first in America to stop a minor canine surgery!!

I asked myself these same questions. Although animal welfare is an imporant topic, I do think that as a country - and I'm sure that VT as a state - have more pressing issues that should be dealt with.

 

[TracyJo]

I feel for you guys at the momemnt as we have been fighting a docking ban in the uk which is going through parliment on the animal welfare bill, as breeders we have been fighting hard but i think the majority are beginning to give up hope and we are having to make the decision as to continue with our beloved breed ( with tails ), or decide otherwise, its such a shame as there are so many breeders whom have been in the breed for many years and are passionate about thier dogs and do all the health testing necessary to produce healthy, well constructed dogs with good tempraments. The majority of us would never put our pups through any undue suffering and I am sure when the ban comes in the only people who will abide buy the law will be the decent breeders whom probably will rarely have a litter but i shouldnt think it will stop the puppy farmers, and the general public will have nowhere else to go to get a pup but to them, because so many good breeder have said they will stop breeding.

I think you're raised a very good point here. It's much the same with BSL. The ban affects those who would generally follow the law anyway. Those who have the aggressive dogs and allow them to run amuck don't recognize the new bans any more than they recognize any other law.
I'm not really surprised at the passion about this topic, it's a passionate topic. I am somewhat surprised that many people feel that if they can't crop or dock they would rather choose another breed. Of course the first thing that drew my attention to the breed was their appearance but now that I have one, I realize that her appearance is just icing on the cake. I think it is their personality, trainability, devotion and innate desire to protect that will keep me a Dobe fancier for life, I don't think that floppy ears or a long tail will affect those qualities. On the other hand, if my state were to propose a similar bill, I would be the first one to rally against it and start writing representatives.
I think what has happened with BSL is a pretty good example of what will happen with this ban. There are even more - or at least just as many -poorly bred bully breeds running the streets and all the well bred, well socialized dogs are gone. A ban on cropping and docking will affect those who care about their dogs and the law but they are few in the big picture. Rescues will fill up with poorly bred dogs who've had their ears and tails butchered by some guy in his garage.

 

[Jedski]

I think you're raised a very good point here. It's much the same with BSL. The ban affects those who would generally follow the law anyway. Those who have the aggressive dogs and allow them to run amuck don't recognize the new bans any more than they recognize any other law.
I'm not really surprised at the passion about this topic, it's a passionate topic. I am somewhat surprised that many people feel that if they can't crop or dock they would rather choose another breed. Of course the first thing that drew my attention to the breed was their appearance but now that I have one, I realize that her appearance is just icing on the cake. I think it is their personality, trainability, devotion and innate desire to protect that will keep me a Dobe fancier for life, I don't think that floppy ears or a long tail will affect those qualities. On the other hand, if my state were to propose a similar bill, I would be the first one to rally against it and start writing representatives.
I think what has happened with BSL is a pretty good example of what will happen with this ban. There are even more - or at least just as many -poorly bred bully breeds running the streets and all the well bred, well socialized dogs are gone. A ban on cropping and docking will affect those who care about their dogs and the law but they are few in the big picture. Rescues will fill up with poorly bred dogs who've had their ears and tails butchered by some guy in his garage.

TracyJo, this is why I said earlier in the thread that I would be interested to hear others' views on this subject.

I myself did think like this when we lost our Rotti, and still do to a point. I innocently started to phone breeders to talk to them about upcoming litters etc, only to be told that they no longer were breeding as they were so committed to the breed, they felt that they could not "go against standard", and breed a dog for sale without being docked. I was told this quite a few times, by heartbroken people who had been involved with their breed their entire lives. And I have to admit, that a part of me is drawn to the dobe just for their regal appearance and steamlined muscular body. I still can't get my head around the addition of a tail. Now, I do feel a little idiotic to admit to that, because like you TJ, it is really the breed personality and traits that I truly love. So, how can I be so contradictory, if I love the breed, would I love Jeddah any less with a tail?

It actually hit me yesterday when reading TracyJo's thread with the photos of Chi at the playground, I think it was Tom who commented on liking Chi's natural ears and maybe leaving his next dobe with natural ears. Is it just a matter of time before I look at a dobe with a tail, and not even notice whether it's docked or not?

I've read some interesting things here since the change in our legislation, litters being confiscated, people being reported for docked dogs even if they have a natural bob-tail, RSPCA appearing at shows to take names and addresses of docked dog owners..... (It is not illegal to own a docked breed, but they can easily locate the breeder via the breeder's prefix). The thing that I find so terribly sad is the fact that the RSPCA have the time to do this, but you hear of dogs in abusive and neglected situations and people have to chase the RSPCA to do something about it. Priorities ........

 

[Codysmom]

I think there should be legislation in VT about requiring the spaying and neutering of politicians!

sorry for the rant earlier but this kind of stuff really burns my butt.

Carrie

 

[TracyJo]

I think there should be legislation in VT about requiring the spaying and neutering of politicians!

sorry for the rant earlier but this kind of stuff really burns my butt.

Carrie

No need to apologize! I for one have enjoyed this conversation and reading everyone's views.
I think that legistlation on altering Politicians needs to be taken up to the Federal level too!

 

[Chaz]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Vermont the same state where a "man" who was convicted of raping the same little girl over a four year period was sentanced to 60 days in jail?

What could they possibly do to punish someone who crops and docs their Dobie? Send them to bed without their supper?