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I just went home for a week and a half (note to self: too long!) I went up to visit some long time family horse friends that have dobes... The first dobe of theirs that I met was one of the reasons I fell in love with the breed. He had all of the qualities you'd want from a great dobe: gorgeous, loyal, loving, smart, brave, etc. I loved that darn dog so much (I lived with them for a bit and he was my buddy), and he just died last year.

The vent: their lack of knowledge and the fact that they decided to do a couple of breedings, *sigh... They bred the old man once a couple of years before he died. I have no clue what bitch they used, but she belonged to a friend. I don't think either one had a show record or anything (as much as I loved that dog, I don't think he really needed to be bred). The puppies were typical cute dobe pups, and they kept one of the sons (yes, one of the males to come live with their existing male...)

Fast forward to earlier this year. The oldest dobe has passed away (pretty sure before the male they kept was old enough to start causing issues), and they still have the one son as well as a new female. They decide to breed the two of them. No, not a show record on either one, and after having met them both this last trip, no reason at all to breed either one...

LUCKILY, they realized that having a litter of puppies is a pain in the butt, so they got the female fixed about as soon as the last pup was weaned. They also aren't the type to breed for $$, so there's that in their favor.

Unluckily, they decided to keep one of the males from the litter... Both males will likely stay intact, and they all live together and hang out together. And they had always planned to keep one of the males from the litter. Can't wait until he hits maturity, right? They clearly don't feel same sex aggression is an issue.

Now onto the ear cropping: when I first came up the drive, the pup was sitting out in the yard. I thought, hmm, they must be letting his ears air out before they put him back in posts. Because his ears are CLEARLY not done... NOPE! They proudly told me that they never had to post his ears... AH! All of their crops are kind of ugly, but at least they stand like they should. This pup will have permanent pockets. It's ugly.

Then, when someone brought up ear cropping (and I said, hey, if they aren't show dogs and you don't want to mess with posting, why bother? *hint* *hint*) they brought up all the usual BS about how it's actually more cruel to leave them uncropped because of the ear infections... *Siiiiiigh. I have no qualms with people choosing to crop, but I think subpar crop is SO much uglier than a floppy ear.

Also, all their current dogs are pretty monster sized...

What other box is left to tick? Again, at least they've decided a litter is way too much work, and they aren't the type to breed for $$.

I feel like this happens sometimes with horse people who are very accomplished within their sport. They are familiar with horse breeding and managing animals, so they feel their knowledge extends to dogs. These same people would crucify someone for breeding a low quality mare, but don't understand why bringing their litter of unregistered Jack Russells to a horse show to sell/give away is a big deal... Seems odd, but I see it more than I'd expect.

Aaaanyway, my fellow animal loving friends understood the vent but couldn't quite appreciate the dobe-specific issues (bad ear crops, oversized dogs, same sex aggression issues), so I thought I'd vent on here.

Unfortunately, only one of the owners is really close enough to me for me to have any ability to chat about these issues, and he's not the one who's super invested in the doberman breed. Plus, he really isn't that receptive to hearing about it, since it's not his deal. And I only see them about once a year these days, if I'm lucky, so I'm not much of an influence. I suppose we can just hope they continue to think breeding is too much hassle. Then give advice when the males decide they aren't buds anymore... Ugh.
 

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So basically, your rant is about 50% superficial because you don't like the crops on someone else's dog...

:nicejob:

:rolleyesww:
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Haha, love that it was the stig who commented...

No. My rant is that good family friends, who've always done right by their horses, bred poor quality dobes and clearly have no idea.

They have pretty ugly dogs who may or may not even be registered but certainly have no working or show records but decided to breed them so they could keep some of their beloved old man's genes.

They then proceed to give me examples that define how unknowledgeable they are and also choose to keep two males while showing they have no clue (nor the willingness to learn) about the dangers of same sex aggression within the breed.

The Stig: every now and again, you happen to fumble upon some intelligent advice and are able to repeat it without completely losing the message. However, I know I strongly disagree with your opinions on breeding, of dobes and all other breeds I'd imagine, so I'll take your comment with a grain of salt (or just get a good chuckle.)

And yes, their crops are hideous. When did you last talk to a knowledgeable dobe owner that bragged about how their pup's ears NEVER had to be taped or posted (as well as seeing in person that they were ugly and unfinished?)

There were many complaints within my story/rant. If all you got out of it was a bad ear crop, well, I suppose that's something...
 

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Haha, love that it was the stig who commented...

No. My rant is that good family friends, who've always done right by their horses, bred poor quality dobes and clearly have no idea.

They have pretty ugly dogs who may or may not even be registered but certainly have no working or show records but decided to breed them so they could keep some of their beloved old man's genes.

They then proceed to give me examples that define how unknowledgeable they are and also choose to keep two males while showing they have no clue (nor the willingness to learn) about the dangers of same sex aggression within the breed.

The Stig: every now and again, you happen to fumble upon some intelligent advice and are able to repeat it without completely losing the message. However, I know I strongly disagree with your opinions on breeding, of dobes and all other breeds I'd imagine, so I'll take your comment with a grain of salt (or just get a good chuckle.)

And yes, their crops are hideous. When did you last talk to a knowledgeable dobe owner that bragged about how their pup's ears NEVER had to be taped or posted (as well as seeing in person that they were ugly and unfinished?)

There were many complaints within my story/rant. If all you got out of it was a bad ear crop, well, I suppose that's something...
TheStig is not someone I would even bother explaining anything to. You said a lot in your original post, thank you for being concerned! I understand the frustration you feel.
 

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I feel like this happens sometimes with horse people who are very accomplished within their sport. They are familiar with horse breeding and managing animals, so they feel their knowledge extends to dogs. These same people would crucify someone for breeding a low quality mare, but don't understand why bringing their litter of unregistered Jack Russells to a horse show to sell/give away is a big deal... Seems odd, but I see it more than I'd expect.

Ugh.
I've noticed this among many(not all) horse people as well. Very annoying.
 

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Ive noticed the same thing when ever I go to horse shows I see so many different types of dogs and you can clearly tell most came form BYB's I don't understand it either. Id never breed a low quality mare/stud and I wouldn't expect them to do it do a dog BUT THEY DO
 

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Haha, love that it was the stig who commented...

No. My rant is that good family friends, who've always done right by their horses, bred poor quality dobes and clearly have no idea.

They have pretty ugly dogs who may or may not even be registered but certainly have no working or show records but decided to breed them so they could keep some of their beloved old man's genes.

They then proceed to give me examples that define how unknowledgeable they are and also choose to keep two males while showing they have no clue (nor the willingness to learn) about the dangers of same sex aggression within the breed.

The Stig: every now and again, you happen to fumble upon some intelligent advice and are able to repeat it without completely losing the message. However, I know I strongly disagree with your opinions on breeding, of dobes and all other breeds I'd imagine, so I'll take your comment with a grain of salt (or just get a good chuckle.)

And yes, their crops are hideous. When did you last talk to a knowledgeable dobe owner that bragged about how their pup's ears NEVER had to be taped or posted (as well as seeing in person that they were ugly and unfinished?)

There were many complaints within my story/rant. If all you got out of it was a bad ear crop, well, I suppose that's something...
1) What business is it of yours what someone else does with their dog, so as long as the dog isn't being mistreated? Were the dogs living in sub par conditions? Were they being physically abused? Do you pay for the food and sundries the dog gets? Do you help those people pay the mortgage on their house? Then don't comment on how you hate the color green they painted their shutters. That was an example by the way, I would never interfere with the reputable practices of breeding quality color shutters.

2) The ear crop comment was meant to be a mock. You just had to mention it didn't you? To me, even bringing up such a critique is just as annoying as a 15 year old boy who thinks a 15 foot high wing on the back of a civic is cool.

Kate, You mentioned above several times that you aren't fond of the dogs or their crops, using the bolded words above. If these were 'good family friends' as you say, why go behind their backs to talk crap about them? Do you often speak negatively about people you call a friend? I mean, you mention several times aspects of the dogs appearance and ears, yet only one time about issues far more important.

I only find rants like yours annoying because they are self serving, at best, with no intentions of actually trying to mediate, help or fix the situation or basis of said rant. You are basically just complaining because someone else' dog doesn't look how you want them to look or how you think they should look. That's called being a snob. Don't be like that.

If you would have just left out the superficial parts, I wouldn't have even responded, because it is clear you just want to complain.

And Gannonrules, I am impressed you didn't include 85 pictures in your post, with 10 youtube video's attached. Yay to you. Talk about somebody wanting attention...
 

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like.. I breed horses & even though I have had dobes all my life.. Not breeding them. My horses all have show records. Even being top quality. I limit my breedings. You would not believe how ticked off people get when I won't breed their mare so they can sell her bred. :(

www.diamondsixfarm.com
 

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I'm just hoping that they luck out and their males don't start fighting. I think it would be a lot harder if they were going to continue to breed. At least they got their female spayed...

Such a bummer - they're obviously not evil people, but why do so many people think that we need more puppies in this world? :(
 

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like.. I breed horses & even though I have had dobes all my life.. Not breeding them. My horses all have show records. Even being top quality. I limit my breedings. You would not believe how ticked off people get when I won't breed their mare so they can sell her bred. :(

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I every once in awhile think I could see breeding a top quality mare I own at some point, hypothetically. However, I mostly just think it's SUCH a crap shoot! Especially if you aren't putting in a LOT of time and research. There are so many 2-3 year olds out there (or weanlings if you want them that young), and then you can see what you're getting and leave the breeding to the pros = )

People who want to breed everything with a uterus confuse the crap out of me, especially the ones that think they'll make so much money doing so! Breeding is NOT cheap when done correctly, and it's incredibly time consuming.

We have a close family friend who has Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs, and her youngest male won the national specialty a couple of years ago. He has had two litters, and I think that's the way to go! She gets to go visit all the adorable pups and then gets to leave them - like a proper grandparent, haha.
 

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1) What business is it of yours what someone else does with their dog, so as long as the dog isn't being mistreated? Were the dogs living in sub par conditions? Were they being physically abused? Do you pay for the food and sundries the dog gets? Do you help those people pay the mortgage on their house? Then don't comment on how you hate the color green they painted their shutters. That was an example by the way, I would never interfere with the reputable practices of breeding quality color shutters.

2) The ear crop comment was meant to be a mock. You just had to mention it didn't you? To me, even bringing up such a critique is just as annoying as a 15 year old boy who thinks a 15 foot high wing on the back of a civic is cool.

Kate, You mentioned above several times that you aren't fond of the dogs or their crops, using the bolded words above. If these were 'good family friends' as you say, why go behind their backs to talk crap about them? Do you often speak negatively about people you call a friend? I mean, you mention several times aspects of the dogs appearance and ears, yet only one time about issues far more important.

I only find rants like yours annoying because they are self serving, at best, with no intentions of actually trying to mediate, help or fix the situation or basis of said rant. You are basically just complaining because someone else' dog doesn't look how you want them to look or how you think they should look. That's called being a snob. Don't be like that.

If you would have just left out the superficial parts, I wouldn't have even responded, because it is clear you just want to complain.

And Gannonrules, I am impressed you didn't include 85 pictures in your post, with 10 youtube video's attached. Yay to you. Talk about somebody wanting attention...
Ha! More chuckles - thanks = )

Mainly, one member of the couple is a close family friend, and he is not the one who is invested in the doberman breed. To bring up the issue with him would just cause unhappy feelings and would solve little, as I am certain he and his SO are unlikely to be swayed by my thoughts, whether pleasantly presented or not. Since they aren't running a huge BYB operation and seem to have given up on breeding from here on out, there isn't much more harm to be done.

It was a harmless vent (sometimes venting behind someone's back is actually the better way to go). I'm sure you've never ever engaged in such a thing, however.

I'm a breeding snob and darn proud of it.

And I won't even get into the rest of your comments because I already know you don't listen to reason when it comes to the ethics of breeding.
 

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Ha! More chuckles - thanks = )

Mainly, one member of the couple is a close family friend, and he is not the one who is invested in the doberman breed. To bring up the issue with him would just cause unhappy feelings and would solve little, as I am certain he and his SO are unlikely to be swayed by my thoughts, whether pleasantly presented or not. Since they aren't running a huge BYB operation and seem to have given up on breeding from here on out, there isn't much more harm to be done.

It was a harmless vent (sometimes venting behind someone's back is actually the better way to go). I'm sure you've never ever engaged in such a thing, however.

I'm a breeding snob and darn proud of it.

And I won't even get into the rest of your comments because I already know you don't listen to reason when it comes to the ethics of breeding.
I do listen, I just don't do the girl thing where girl A and B are friends and girl A hates girl C, and because of that girl B now hates girl C and doesn't even know her.

Everyone vents in one way or another, but the material involved shouldn't be about superficial things.

You claim to love the breed, but in reality, what you really love are only the Matthew McConaughey dobermans. The Steve Buscemi dobes, in your eyes, aren't worth your time.

The dogs can't help what their owners did and didn't do right. They're still dobermans right?
 

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Stir the pot, why don't you, Stig?

I mean, there are little things about my family and friends that drive me bat-sh*t crazy, but I know telling them won't change things and will only make our relationship more difficult, but sometimes I have to get it off my chest, and where is a more harmless place to do it than in a public, anonymous internet forum designed for such things?

Plus, her point here is that the dogs are poorly bred and don't conform to any standard or exhibit any superlative trait of any kind and are still bred, YET these same people still do well with breeding quality horses. THAT is the point of the thread... phew.

Anywho, I tend to think some serious horse people see dogs as a cutesy 4-H side project, and nothing of serious consequence for some reason. I've seen the same thing-- heck, my old horseback riding teacher as a kid was avid about training and showing beautiful horses, yet backyard bred Irish Wolfhounds who lived outside in runs. Really weird.
 

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I mean, there are little things about my family and friends that drive me bat-sh*t crazy, but I know telling them won't change things and will only make our relationship more difficult, but sometimes I have to get it off my chest, and where is a more harmless place to do it than in a public, anonymous internet forum designed for such things?
I thought that was what we were both doing?

The difference is I don't get all riled up when someone disagrees with me.

;)

You know what aggravates me? Here is one of my biggest pet peeves and it is such a small thing:

I live in America, Here we drive on the right side of the road. Why do the tards who also live in America, think that if they are traveling on the highway and need to cut across or do a u-turn, stay to the left in the little gap between the roads?

That aggravates the sh*t out of me. Not only is it dangerous, it is frustrating and annoying. If some tard needs to do a u turn and sees one of those openings...Im sure they have a name, just can't recall it at the moment, why must they immediately start to turn around as soon as the opening hits? They have now just went from keeping right, to erroneously charging into oncoming traffics right of way. Now, if I'm coming from the opposite direction and need to also do a u-turn...I now have to not only look through their vehicle to watch for oncoming traffic, which with tinted windows makes it nearly impossible, but I also have to watch out for folks who understand the concept of keeping right and are trying to do things the right way. Makes for a dangerous and frustrating situation.

That is a rant.
 

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Tards? So I'm just going to take a wild guess and assume that "tards" originates from "retards" which is a derogatory term for someone with disabilities. So what is worse, ranting about "tards" or bad crops? Again, I'm taking a wild guess, but "tards" is a more harmful rant IMO.

Do I agree with you on the fact that some people shouldn't legally be allowed to drive? Absolutely. Do I agree with Kate that bad crops are ugly? Absolutely. There is nothing wrong with sharing opinions and frustrations.
 

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You know what aggravates me? Here is one of my biggest pet peeves and it is such a small thing:

I live in America, Here we drive on the right side of the road. Why do the tards who also live in America, think that if they are traveling on the highway and need to cut across or do a u-turn, stay to the left in the little gap between the roads?
Not going to respond to the rest because quite frankly, this is the only thing that I've ever agreed with that you've posted. This is my biggest pet peeve, and it isn't a small thing. We have tons of U-turns where I live and actually pulled to the right of one while taking a U-turn and had a POLICE car stop right at the turn and wait for me before he got to the inside (left side) to turn himself.
 

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Tards? So I'm just going to take a wild guess and assume that "tards" originates from "retards" which is a derogatory term for someone with disabilities. So what is worse, ranting about "tards" or bad crops? Again, I'm taking a wild guess, but "tards" is a more harmful rant IMO.

Do I agree with you on the fact that some people shouldn't legally be allowed to drive? Absolutely. Do I agree with Kate that bad crops are ugly? Absolutely. There is nothing wrong with sharing opinions and frustrations.
From the urban dictionary, referencing the meaning I was using:

Any person who is not developmentally disabled, but rather has what is considered normal cognitive faculties but for whatever reason has opted out of using it
The term 'retard', in its form of describing a person, doesn't always have to be as negative and referring to the way you described above.

Ever have a friend do something that showed a serious lack of common sense? That's when you give them the facepalm and call them a tard.

That is not the same thing as making fun of someone or somethings appearance or mental state of mind.

I forgive you for your lack of knowledge on the word and it's slang meaning.

I could have also chose another describing word as well, so partially my bad!

HB, you might be right...perhaps I don't belong on this forum. I need to be at a place, if I so choose, that encourages conversation and discussion, not tantrums and toy hoarding.

The original op was ranting about bad crops and the fact that the dogs didn't have show records, so they shouldn't have been bred. Now, I ask, what does that have to do with the price of eggs in China? She's been here long enough to know the correct terms of being 'titled'.

Those dogs could have been 100% healthy and defect free and live to be 15 yrs old, but because they were 'ugly' to her, she casts her nose upwards so her lovely boogers can be counted.

If that is the type of person you want representing the breed...good freakin' luck with that!
 
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