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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Xena has finished her third week (as of last Saturday) of clavamox with no success in curing/treating her UTI. She still dribbles here and there, squats with no passing when out for potty, blood in her urine, foul smell to her urine, wets the bed, and has some discharge (milky/greenish at times). I regularly clean her area well after every potty/piddle with sensitive baby wipes/puppy wipes (which ever is closer).

She has a vet appointment this coming Sunday, and I am going to rush it to have the appointment tomorrow. I really want to bring this UTI to an end, and having her constantly on antibiotics worries me for her health.

Her diet consists of:
Innova Large Breed Puppy kibble and wet food 3-4 cups a day
Fish oil capsules, mercury filtered, unflavored 1200mg 1x a day
Vita E 200iu 2x a day
Greek yogurt, plain, organic, hormone and fat free 1tbsp a day
Pumpkin 1tbsp a day

She gets fed 3x a day of the above in portions. No vomiting, no bowel issues, nice and firm but not rock solid. Beautiful silky shiny coat, practically flake free unless she's stressed/nervous, shes a happy lil pup and shows no other signs of complications. She drinks plenty of water that is always available in my room and around the house which is refreshed twice a day.

After a bit of reading on homeopathic and herbal remedies I am somewhat convinced that this may help. As of today I started her with NaturVet Cranberry Relief, which has some good ingredients for urinary support. I'm hoping this would at least relieve her of some discomfort. I started with the lowest dosage to wean her on.

While at my natural pet food store, they recommended that I should consider a raw diet. I'm all for it, and willing to try the time and effort. The gal mentioned that maybe the kibble is possible to hard on Xenas organs (kidneys, stomach etc) and could be the reason why the antibiotics are not effective. Has anyone have heard or experience this fact as true? I know an optimal diet is key, which I thought I had a good set up for her. And what kind of meat should I look into? Chicken, turkey, Lamb, Beef are the options. It was said to try all one at a time and keep it in rotation to prevent any alergery/sensitivities. (I'll be lurking on raw diet threads as well)

I will be asking the same Q&A to her vet tomorrow. Should I push for blood tests for her kidney function? Ultra sound for stones? Of course an urinalysis and culture will be done, I just wanted to know of other things that should be considered to rule out other possible issues (diabetic, kidney stones etc). The vet doesn't seem highly concerned of this UTI issue, and is pushing to schedule a spay :( I am currently browsing for another vet to turn to.

All and any input is highly needed! I'm very concerned for my baby girl :(
FYI Xena will be 5 months old on Monday, has had all vaccinations done and is not spayed yet until this UTI is under control. Also I was able to do a dip stick test of my own from a sample (void of course) I collected with sterile supplies. I work in a lab and many of the things needed to identify an UTI we have.

The test showed: Siemens 10SG strips
Leukocytes: Moderate
Nitrite: Positive
Urobilinogen: 0.2
Protein: Negative
Ph: 7.5
Blood: small trace
Specific Gravity: 1.010-1.015
Ketone: Negative
Bilirubin: negative
Glucose: Negative

On a separate test:
Creatinine: 60mg/dL
Calcium: 0.90mg/dL
Magnesium: 5.77mg/dL
Phosphorus: 26.48mg/dL
The sample appeared clear, light yellow with very little tubility. I don't know nor could I find canine ranges for the data I got from testing her sample. I am not using the data as reference cause it's not by veterinary practice, but I was curious to see what her levels were in general.

Ps my apologies for a lengthly post and any misspelling (on the iPhone atm) please all input/advice on this issue is greatly needed.
 
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Have they done a culture and sensitivity on the actual organism that is causing her problem to determine just what antibiotics she is likely to respond to? She may have gotten ahold of a resistant strain of something that will need an antibiotic that is not a typical one to use.
Did they do a microscopic on the urine to look for crystals?
It's possible they might need to look for physical abnormalities in her urinary tract that could give her problems.

Good luck with your pup's healing.
 

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I will be asking the same Q&A to her vet tomorrow. Should I push for blood tests for her kidney function? Ultra sound for stones? Of course an urinalysis and culture will be done, I just wanted to know of other things that should be considered to rule out other possible issues (diabetic, kidney stones etc). The vet doesn't seem highly concerned of this UTI issue, and is pushing to schedule a spay :( I am currently browsing for another vet to turn to.
...
Was a urinalysis / culture & sensitivity previously done? If so, was it done via free catch or cystocentesis? If not, that should definitely be high on the list, but be sure to confirm with your vet that she has been off the antibiotics long enough for it not to interfere with the results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Her last test from the vet (a lil over 3 weeks ago) was by cystocentesis. They did not perform culture and found very little crystals. She will have been off from antibiotics for almost a week.
Edit: She completed the round of clavamox as of Saturday.

Her next test will be through cystocentesis as well and I will push for culture and sensitivity to be done.
 

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I have heard anecdotal evidence for raw feeding (probably the grainlessness factor) having a beneficial effect on incontinance. I have not heard this with regard to UTI's, but that doesn't mean it's impossible. I think the basis for the suggestion you got is bogus... that said, I also think that raw feeding is far superior to other diets. Go for it!

Your vet is not your friend, or Xena's, either. She's sick and in discomfort, and he neither seems overly concerned nor particularly driven to do what's necessary to help her. You are right to be shopping for a new guy.

I would up the yoghurt to maybe 1/4 cup a couple of times a day, or do a good probiotic. I would start her on a couple of scoops of the cranberry product a couple of times a day... cranberry will not fix a UTI, but it will make life a little more difficult for the bacteria and be some protection against the next UTI.

Get the culture and sensitivity run, and get her on the appropriate antibiotic. I don't know that I would be looking at kidney function or for stones or whatever at this point... chances are that she simply has an out-of-the-ordinary bug that laughs at Clavamox.

You do NOT want to have your girl spayed prior to her first season if she has a tendency to develop UTI's! AND... your vet should certainly KNOW this!!! Doing so could possibly set her up for repeated infections for life. Like I said: this one's not your friend...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Mmctaq:
Yes, I plan to only have this vet care until the contract wellness plan is expired. Which covers vaccinations, dental and other preventative care. As for primary care I am looking for a very good vet, luckily there are many veterinary care specialist and hospitals near my area. This current vet seems like a nice gal, but it's a corporate owned vet clinic. So I know they're endorsed to only say and follow regulations, which sucks for us the client and patient who need honest true care.

I just started her yogurt supplement since last Thursday. Weaned her on to it, by Sunday I upped the dose to 3tbsp and went back to 1 since Tuesday. I've read that some would mix dosages of the cranberry supplement with the yogurt? Which I think is considerable since I give her yogurt separate from her meal (usually 10-15 mins after eating). IMO I think it being seperate from being mixed in the meal would benefit better in absorbstion.

As for raw diet, I might introduce it to her this weekend with just a little bit in her feeding. I just don't know which to start with, she's very food motivated, so I'm sure she'll eat it. Feeding raw actually sounds exciting to be able to have complete control of her intake of diet. Sooner than later this girl will be eating better than me lol

Oh yeah that clavamox had a good laugh at this fight. 3 weeks of it! I hope by Monday I will have some results and get her back to the road of recovery.
 
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Truly, what is left on your wellness plan that you or your girl would benefit by having done? Her vaccines should be done, she is too young to require dental care, etc. Most often, these plans show horrendously inflated prices, package a huge array of procedures together (many or most of which you would be better off NOT getting done), and then discount them deeply to a cost that is STILL higher than you would pay to a private practitioner. Are you obligated to have her spayed by six months? You really, seriously do not want this... UTI's are often the result of immaturely sized, shaped and angled girl parts... if she is spayed prior to coming into season, this maturation will never happen and the UTI's will be an issue forever. The cost you will pay for the culture and sensitivity test with a free office visit is liable to be higher than the cost of the test plus an office visit elsewhere. Sometimes, it is better to cut your losses... I'm just sayin'...

You will not have any results back by Monday. It takes several days to do a culture.

In case your vet didn't mention it, it is very important that your girl be given the opportunity to urinate as frequently as you can and she will.

You don't need to be all cautious and conservative with either the yoghurt or the cranberry supplement... you're not going to hurt her with either, and you're not going to benefit her much by providing teensy bits. If it matters what you combine with what, I doubt it matters enough to worry about.

Some folks are all cautious about introducing new foods. I don't bother... "Here! Eat this! It's good, and you'll like it!" Kind of the welcome-to-your-new-life method of dietary changes LOL! If a dog had a history of frequent and serious digestive issues, I might be more cautious... but, maybe not. I also don't think it much matters which protein you start with... most folks start with chicken, but that's because it is cheap and readily available, not because it is better. I am guessing that you're thinking of a pre-made product from the store that recommended it? Which brands do they offer? If you want to start with pre-made while you research do-it-yourself, that is a fine (albeit spendy) way to start. I would do more than lurk on threads here; I would buy a couple of books and join a raw feeding list or two. If you can find yourself a real, live, local person to mentor you... that would rock! Learning where to shop is one of the largest hurdles, and a local person can turn you on to all sorts of neat places. Ohhh! Simon from Creston Valley Meats swings through San Diego, too... folks from all over the country are jealous of people who can buy from Simon! I'm 2400 miles away, and I'm jealous! Buy a freezer...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I am stuck on the wellness plan for another 9 months lol I only plan to use it for her trifexis prescriptions and vaccinations. The dental is a part of the adult plan (sorry lol) Zeus and Mazel are on that plan. Xena does go on very frequent potty breaks, no more than 1-2hrs when we are home. While I work/no one is home, she is left in my room (which is completely proofed from her getting into anything) and has use of pads/paper. I take her out on my lunch breaks, and she is not left alone longer than 4hrs. The culture results I know take 3-7days (I have the same culture plates at my lab that are used for this test) I've done my share of plate cultures myself, and was half tempted to do one, but Id rather leave it to the professionals to do it ;) As for sensitivity and Urinalyisis, last time they had results in a matter of 3 days.

EDIT: I also dont plan to spay until her first heat, for those obvious reasons that you mentioned. This vet I have now is just clueless of what I am saying to her for my reasoning as to WHY I want to wait. She keeps saying "I've never have had any issues in my practice with spaying before first heat, and if you wait till she is 6mo then you will have to pay more for the spay". lol I just shook my head, smiled and said "Paying more is not my concern, her health is my concern. Waiting till her first heat would be best for her to mature into her body and will give time for her body to fight this UTI issue." I can not wait to see a private veterinary clinic!!!! I was recommended a great vet in spring valley, which I just might consider, however the drive is a bit aways (1 1/2hrs) and there are plenty of good vets in my area too.


The natural pet food store in my area has various product brands. None that I have seen at my LPS. The brands I was looking at were Bravo and another that I cant remember, they had everything from sardines to venison and rabbit, also had loads of meat still on bone, turkey necks etc. Every selection had its own freezer. The gal helping me out seemed to know quite a bit on raw feeding, which she does also for her dog. And my co-worker feeds raw as well (she's the one that turned me on to this store).
Dexter's Deli - San Diego's Best Natural Pet Store in Del Mar, Carlsbad, San Marcos

Ive heard good things about this store, yesterday was my first time there. The meat was in tubes of 1-5lbs, which I am not sure if I should try the tube or the meat where I would have to butcher up. I will look up Simon and the raw feeding list, thanks for the tip!
 
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poor little girl.

sounds like maybe a bad case of puppy vaginitis that has led to a UTI.

Hope a culture will lead to an effective treatment.

google and check out Grapefruit seed extract, GSE, a natural anti biotic and more!

Hugz to Xena!
 

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Brandy had many UTI's when she was young. She did have crystals in her urine and there were many panicky phone calls to the vet when she peed blood. We finally got her stable using a food from Science Diet: Prescription Diet c/d Canine Urinary Tract Health that the vet prescribed. It was very expensive feeding a growing dobe, but it worked!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
So come to find out they can't fit me in today to collect her sample :(
They asked for me to bring in a free catch/void sample, which I am not pleased because it is not a sterile collection. I might as well just wait till Sunday to get the cystocentesis collection instead, my poor baby!!! Ugh I hate this, wish I could take her pain away now!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Brandy had many UTI's when she was young. She did have crystals in her urine and there were many panicky phone calls to the vet when she peed blood. We finally got her stable using a food from Science Diet: Prescription Diet c/d Canine Urinary Tract Health that the vet prescribed. It was very expensive feeding a growing dobe, but it worked!
Thanks for the tip! :)
I've looked at some urinary health foods, and trying to find a all natural source. But I might just have to get a brand that has grains for Xenas sake! Lol I don't mind prices as for her health is worth every penny!! I will look into Sciene Diet, I usually find their coupons in the Sunday paper.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

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Thanks! :)
Dexters Deli had this one their shelf, but I wanted to try one thing at a time. And i was told by the associate there that it is chemical based and i need to make sure it will not interfere with any meds she might be on. This product is definitely next on my list.

No prob!

from their site:

My companion is being given drugs that our veterinarian has prescribed. Is it safe to use herb tinctures concurrently?

Many of our veterinarian clients used our products concurrently with prescription medications and have found good results from using our tinctures and supplements as part of integrative therapies. Regardless, we strongly recommend that you leave such practices to trained professionals. Even though herb-drug interactions are very rare, some herbs and supplements may influence the effectiveness of certain drugs. If you wish to incorporate supplements into your pet's medical care, please call your your veterinarian first--- if he or she is not familiar with the uses of herbs or other supplements, have him give us a call--- we welcome questions from veterinarians and work as consultants to them all the time--- and it won't cost you a dime! Alternately, you may go to our "Find a Holistic Vet" tab to find holistic vets in your region that already use our products.
 

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Thanks for the tip! :)
I've looked at some urinary health foods, and trying to find a all natural source. But I might just have to get a brand that has grains for Xenas sake! Lol I don't mind prices as for her health is worth every penny!! I will look into Sciene Diet, I usually find their coupons in the Sunday paper.
c/d® Canine Urinary Tract Health cd

Whole Grain Corn, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Soybean Mill Run, Chicken Liver Flavor, Lactic Acid, Calcium Sulfate, Soybean Oil, Flaxseed, Iodized Salt, L-Lysine, Choline Chloride, Dicalcium Phosphate, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Vitamin E Supplement, Taurine, Potassium Chloride, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with Mixed Tocopherols & Citric Acid, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.


Yum yum yum!!!

This "food" is designed to address the formation of crystals and stones of certain chemical composition... it is NOT anything which will address infections. In most instances, it must be prescribed by a veterinarian and is not available to be just bought off the shelf. If you are a client of a big box veterinary clinic, I'm sure they'd be delighted to oblige you with a prescription... it's what they do. This is not a healthy diet for any dog, much less a growing pup.

Your dog is sick and not getting better. I am sure she is uncomfortable. They won't see you promptly and have requested a urine sample that is going to be of questionable value in running a culture, which is what is necessary to do to have your dog treated appropriately. You have made the point that money isn't a higher priority than the health of your dog, and yet you've not made an appointment with someone who will actually help her. I don't get it.

You are contemplating dietary changes to either a much higher quality food (raw) or to absolute bottom of the barrel crap (ANYTHING manufactured by Hill's). I don't get this, either.

You sound genuinely concerned with your girl's welfare. In my opinion, turning that concern into action will involve having her seen by someone who shares that concern and has the medical expertise and willingness to undertake an appropriate and effective diagnosis/treatment for her.
 

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Sorry, I didn't realize that the c/d food was for the crystals. I just know that after a couple of months of feeding her this all her tests came back normal and we were able to switch to a different food. Don't mind me SoCalDobie. :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
c/d® Canine Urinary Tract Health cd

Whole Grain Corn, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Soybean Mill Run, Chicken Liver Flavor, Lactic Acid, Calcium Sulfate, Soybean Oil, Flaxseed, Iodized Salt, L-Lysine, Choline Chloride, Dicalcium Phosphate, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Vitamin E Supplement, Taurine, Potassium Chloride, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with Mixed Tocopherols & Citric Acid, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.


Yum yum yum!!!

This "food" is designed to address the formation of crystals and stones of certain chemical composition... it is NOT anything which will address infections. In most instances, it must be prescribed by a veterinarian and is not available to be just bought off the shelf. If you are a client of a big box veterinary clinic, I'm sure they'd be delighted to oblige you with a prescription... it's what they do. This is not a healthy diet for any dog, much less a growing pup.

Your dog is sick and not getting better. I am sure she is uncomfortable. They won't see you promptly and have requested a urine sample that is going to be of questionable value in running a culture, which is what is necessary to do to have your dog treated appropriately. You have made the point that money isn't a higher priority than the health of your dog, and yet you've not made an appointment with someone who will actually help her. I don't get it.

You are contemplating dietary changes to either a much higher quality food (raw) or to absolute bottom of the barrel crap (ANYTHING manufactured by Hill's). I don't get this, either.

You sound genuinely concerned with your girl's welfare. In my opinion, turning that concern into action will involve having her seen by someone who shares that concern and has the medical expertise and willingness to undertake an appropriate and effective diagnosis/treatment for her.

Let me clarify.
I am going to get a cystocensis collection no matter what. I am not going to bring them a void sample. I plan to take her to the CVS here in carlsbad either tonight or in the morning vs taking her to the vet she regularly sees. I can not understand that they cant just collect her sample which takes a literal 5mins. I've waited in the lobby on appointment for 45 mins for them to collect a sample. Trust me I understand the seriousness of this issue, and I am not going to wait by their means.

I am only looking at diets that could help her after the UTI is solved. I by no means plan to switch her food right this moment. I only planned to have her try a bit of raw to see how her belly can handle it. As for urinary support diets, I know many of the commercial manufactured food is crap. The vet even had me use Royal Canin urinary S/O for her, which did nothing but make her start to lose weight and get flakey skin. And yes, she was very delighted to push the kibble to me. Ive yet to see a good urinary support kibble that is hollistic and grain, by-product free. Meldrew is the only person for me to refer to as of having some success in reduction in crystals. Now once proper meds are prescribed and used diligently I may need to diet her to reduce the crystals to proceed the treatment. I know that its the infection that creates the alkaline ph for crystals to form. Nonetheless, the remedies I have from the natural food store should help with crystals with out the need to feed low quality prescription food.

I appreciate your concern and help. She WILL be seeing a vet by tomorrow, latest. A urinalysis should be quick, and the culture will take up to a week. It will be unkown of what meds to start until the culture is identified and confirmed. Thus far i only have the cranberry relief and the apawthecary's tinkle tonic to help a bit of the discomfort she is having.

:thanx:
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
To avoid any more confusion:
-Cystocensis will be done, and will be consulted with veterinary specialist at the local emergency vet.
-Only cranberry relief is being administered for urinary support. Tinkle tonic is on hand and will be discussed with the vet before it is used.
-Raw will only be introduced, and not included in her daily diet until testing is complete.
-Prescription food will only be considered as the very last resort. I already learned from the prescription diet recommended to me, and I am hesitant to try it again. I'd rather use hollistic/homeopathic remedies that are less harmful and more beneficial to reduce crystals and support urinary health.

I really do appreciate the tips and concerns. I dont want to put out the wrong picture in others minds when it comes to this UTI matter. Please know that Xena is my main priority, and I seek the best for her.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Sorry, I didn't realize that the c/d food was for the crystals. I just know that after a couple of months of feeding her this all her tests came back normal and we were able to switch to a different food. Don't mind me SoCalDobie. :)
Youre just trying to help with sharing your experience :thanx:
Thank you though for putting in your best effort to help out. There is many others here who are very critical and only mean their best interest for other members and their dogs. No harm, no foul :) I should've been more clear of what I was trying to say. Working and trying to post via phone isnt helping others understand lol Now that I am home I can reiterate myself in a more clarified way. ;)
 
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