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Discussion Starter #1
Alrighty so I went and checked the class out tonight, I caught the last 30 min of one and the first 15/20 min of the next... I kept in mind this was her first night with the new classes and tried to be objective (not easy for me to do)... I think I'm going to pass on the class. The money is no longer an issue since if I felt as though she were able to teach what we need to know then it would be worth it but after watching the class tonight I am less than confident...
Cons:
1. Only three dogs in the class, for better than 20 min 2 of the dogs stood at opposites ends of the huge double tennis court with their owners just waiting for the instructor to give them direction....
2. Never once did I hear her tell her students to praise or talk to their dogs. She was quick to tell them to correct them though...
3. She's strictly opposed to food reinforcement (I understand some people are but shouldn't there be at least a verbal reinforcement and praise?)
4. She put a choke collar that was entirely too large on a 6 pounds shih-tzu pup and one that imo was entirely too small on a 100 pound golden retriever(it just barely fit over this dogs head, not quite sure how they're going to get it off)...
5. She estimated Chi to be over 100 lbs by the time she reached 1 yr. (now maybe she knows something I don't but I'm thinking that was grossly exaggerated)
6. I truly doubt there is anything I can learn from this woman that I don't already know or can't learn through research in books and on the web...
7. Not ideal for socialization so much because she has the dogs spread out so far away from each other (distance much greater than if we were to pass another dog walking on the other side of the street)
8. Seemed nervous and not very forthcoming with information when I talked to her after the class.

Pros:
1. It does offer me a place to work on Chi with distractions.
2. I can take over the class and make it fun for the dogs and owners :) To include the poor old bassett that had no desire to come and even less to stay (bet if he had a hot dog infront of his nose he would have had much more fun :) ) and I wouldn't charge such an obscene price....
3. I can meet more dog people :)
and that's about it... I'm really dissapointed in this but have now decided to check out the local Japanese speaking training club... I mean "dog" is a universal language right?
 

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Ahh thats ashame, but if you do not feel comfortable or it does not meet your needs then you are right why go?

As for the no treats - I understand that but as you said there should be lots of verbal praise to go along with correction. You cant just have correction without praise - praise is the motivator for the dog to do right.

Keep searching you will find something that suits your needs better. Dont settle for less.

TD
 

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Discussion Starter #6
TakirasDad said:
Ahh thats ashame, but if you do not feel comfortable or it does not meet your needs then you are right why go?

As for the no treats - I understand that but as you said there should be lots of verbal praise to go along with correction. You cant just have correction without praise - praise is the motivator for the dog to do right.

Keep searching you will find something that suits your needs better. Dont settle for less.

TD
You really hit the nail on the head TD. She may have a wonderful success rate but when it all boils down, I just don't feel comfortable with her or the training methods she endorsed... Not that she is wrong, I just don't think that she's right for us right now if that makes any sense...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Gracie's_Mom said:
Do you know if that was her first class? If it was I can understand why she is doing all of those things. If not then I can't understand why. Good luck finding another trainer!

Lexus you crack me up 98% of the time.
She may crack you up 98% but I'm tired of loosing 98% of my chocolate milk or diet coke or whatever else LOL!
Tonight was her first night with both of these classes as far as I know. I can understand to some extent having the dogs so far apart but I can't quite understand why praise wasn't taught much less any attempt to make the class enjoyable for the dogs...
 

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hey just noticed TracyJo you are in Japan ..how the heck did you get there? lol

Have you ever been to china? I lived in hong kong for awhile ..how are they treating you over there is there a large western community in your area?
 

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Ehhh, it boils down to the fact that it is YOUR dog (maybe 2% hubby's) and it is YOUR money. It is your desision as to how your dog is trained and by what method. I think you're right that she isn't all that knowledgeable and is taking advantage of being english speaking in a foreign country to make a few bucks.

I addition I agree that what is the purpose if you aren't rewarding and enriching the dog's willingness to learn. I don't mean just treats, as I know some people don't care for that reward, but as you said, where is the praise?

Do you have any friends (I know you have US tracy!!!) what even don't live that close, but are into their dogs too like we are? You could schedule a once a week get together at a park or playground that way Chi's getting socialization, plus it's just FUN! And then just work with your dogs, visit, etc....
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Twinkletoes said:
hey just noticed TracyJo you are in Japan ..how the heck did you get there? lol

Have you ever been to china? I lived in hong kong for awhile ..how are they treating you over there is there a large western community in your area?
I've not been to China and really wish I had taken an opportunity 10 or so years ago (when we were here the first time) to visit Hong Kong before it was returned to China in '97 I think... My darling husband -Mark- is in the Air Force so we get to live everywhere at least once it seems :) I could be wrong but the base we're at now, Kadena, is the largest AF base overseas (that could be land mass though because I think Kaiserslautern in Germany is the largest concentration of Americans overseas) add to that the Marines and Navy that are here and Yes, we have a relatively large western community to say the least. :) In fact at times we seem to outnumber the local islanders, would be interesting to know what the ratio of American to Okinawan is on this island actually, will have to add that to my to do list of research :) Of all the places lived or visited overseas I have to say that hands down the Okinawans are the most peaceful and kindest culture - even when some really stupid service members do some really heinous stuff. I truly love it here.
How long were you in Hong Kong? Did you like it???
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Lexus said:
Do you have any friends (I know you have US tracy!!!) what even don't live that close, but are into their dogs too like we are? You could schedule a once a week get together at a park or playground that way Chi's getting socialization, plus it's just FUN! And then just work with your dogs, visit, etc....
Thanks Lex :)
I struggled with this last night after I got off the computer... I want the best for Chi but began questioning whether I know what the best is for her. It just seemed that her methods are very heavy handed and I just don't see the purpose when I know it can be so much fun. The classes I took Storm to were a blast for both dog and human. I used a training collar on her but wowie wow she would get excited when she saw that collar and knew it was time to go to class or practice... I want the same for Chi :)
Mark suggested last night to work with Chi on my own and keep doing what I'm doing (this kid goes shopping at least once a week in addition to daily walks and training sessions and several times a week I walk/train her on a local shopping street off base) just to bone up on basics and then maybe run an advertisment in the base paper looking for others who are in the same boat as me. He even volunteered to come with me to this group (providing I can find one :) ) to be a non-dog facilitator... He's so cool :)
 

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I hope all of this works out for you with finding a group for Chi baby!

Also I really understand about how excited they get over a collar! Gracie gets so excited when she sees the prong, or the other collars that she has.. I am drawing a blank on the names of them though..
(Like I said in the chat I had a little to much to drink tonight.)

So Lexus since Chi is only 2% Mark's does that mean that Chi is 98% Tracy's? I just want to make sure we get our numbers right here. You know? :)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Gracie's_Mom said:
I hope all of this works out for you with finding a group for Chi baby!

Also I really understand about how excited they get over a collar! Gracie gets so excited when she sees the prong, or the other collars that she has.. I am drawing a blank on the names of them though..
(Like I said in the chat I had a little to much to drink tonight.)

So Lexus since Chi is only 2% Mark's does that mean that Chi is 98% Tracy's? I just want to make sure we get our numbers right here. You know? :)

You two are absolutely certifiable! :eyeball:
 

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TracyJo said:
I've not been to China and really wish I had taken an opportunity 10 or so years ago (when we were here the first time) to visit Hong Kong before it was returned to China in '97 I think... My darling husband -Mark- is in the Air Force so we get to live everywhere at least once it seems :) I could be wrong but the base we're at now, Kadena, is the largest AF base overseas (that could be land mass though because I think Kaiserslautern in Germany is the largest concentration of Americans overseas) add to that the Marines and Navy that are here and Yes, we have a relatively large western community to say the least. :) In fact at times we seem to outnumber the local islanders, would be interesting to know what the ratio of American to Okinawan is on this island actually, will have to add that to my to do list of research :) Of all the places lived or visited overseas I have to say that hands down the Okinawans are the most peaceful and kindest culture - even when some really stupid service members do some really heinous stuff. I truly love it here.
How long were you in Hong Kong? Did you like it???
I was there for several months working as a nursery teacher. I was living and working in one of the new territories called Ma On Shan ..it was amazing a even though there were a a couple of shopping malls i loved the way the 'old' china was mixed in with the more westernized areas. You would get a shopping mall and next door there would be and old stlyle chinese open market crammed into the alley ways selling huge fish live in tanks ..chickens hanging from baskets anything and everything you could imagine which was alive and edible lol. It was an eye opener but fascinating. Its seems even though that part of china was moving into a new era and being developed the locals still held onto there rituals and beliefs with little shrimes of oranges and incense outside on the pavement although i never looked to closely as you would always see several cock-roaches crushed into the pavement (not good when its outside a restaurant lol)
I have never seen a country that had such a diverse culture and it was so fast paced and HOT !! i have never experienced heat and humidity like it ..every one was walking around with umbrellas in the sun to keep it of their faces ..within an hour you could look like a lobster.

I found the people generally warm and frinedly .. it was still very much the old china and women were looked on as inferior to the men though I had one man follow me around the food shop and i politely but firmly told him where to shove it :eatchicke .. but i dont think he understood and alot of people stared at me because i was pale skinned and blonde ..i saw one 'western' person the whole time i was there. The police were present the whole time and they were alittle weird with me sometimes stopping me and asking what i was doing here. It was quite scary at times being on my own but i got through it and once i had found my feet i was ok. Its the one place where i have been where i actually felt like i was in another world.

The view were spectacular and at night it was simply breath-taking. I travelled into central hong kong and it felt like i could have been in central New-York or LOndon ..very wealthy affluent area filled with starbucks and rock cafes gucci, prada etc. It is the most diverse place i have been and was the most amazing journey of my life. Although the 12 hour palne journey was abit of a white-knuckle ride at times lol..

I stop now before you fall asleep :D
 

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Gracie's_Mom said:
I hope all of this works out for you with finding a group for Chi baby!

Also I really understand about how excited they get over a collar! Gracie gets so excited when she sees the prong, or the other collars that she has.. I am drawing a blank on the names of them though..
(Like I said in the chat I had a little to much to drink tonight.)

So Lexus since Chi is only 2% Mark's does that mean that Chi is 98% Tracy's? I just want to make sure we get our numbers right here. You know? :)

You got it!!!:3dbiggrin
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Twinkletoes said:
I stop now before you fall asleep :D
Nope, I could talk travel all night! :)
How awesome it must have been and I can imagine very scary. You were on your own... I have my family and the bases everywhere we go. The way you described Hong Kong reminds me of Tokyo, I've only been there a handful of times but it's a different world from this island or even from what I've seen the whole of Japan.
There is a particular street here, right off base maybe 3/4 kilometer from our house that I like to walk Chi on, it's pretty much designed with Americans in mind but the alleys are awesome and just what you described. It's like a time warp when you walk down the alleys and see the carcasses hanging (gross) and all the local vendors...
 

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TracyJo said:
You two are absolutely certifiable! :eyeball:

I am only :eyeball: 98% of the time I swear. The other 2% of the time I am a normal person! Wait I need to look up what normal is.. Okay so 2% of the time I am a calm relaxed non :eyeball: person! :3dbiggrin
 

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lol glad i didnt send you to sleep TracyJo with that epic..once i get started i cant stop ! yeah it was hair-raising at times ..i remeber the first couple of weeks i cried like a baby wanting to come home lol. The food was amazing ..nothing like the chinese take away you can get..it was better. Some of the islands were stunning when you could see them through the pollution in the air.. looked like King-kong was gonna walk out through the mist or something :D ..what amazed me was the cleanliness in the highlt populated areas and how you could be walking past one huge wealthy looking tower block turn a corner and be walking through a shanty town. I took a walk down to a park near me and could see all the elderly working out on this public gym equipment ..it was great fun to watch. The pollution was quite heavy on the lungs in congested areas ..it was suffocating mixed with the humidity. When i was there they were still on S.A.Rs alert and everything was covered with plastic such as lift buttons which many people would touch so they were easier to clean.. i even had to walk through these mats soaked in some special antibacterial solution. When i arrived of the plane it was abit embarassing as i had to walk through this body heat thing so they could detect whether you had a fever (linked to s.a.rs virus) i watched myself on the screen walking thorugh showing up all my hot patches in embarassing places lol.

The most horrifying moment was when it came to the time for me to come home. My dad booked an electronic ticket for me back in the uk. All my money was in the u.k as i didnt want to carry a huge amount back with me anyway so i transfered it all.
I got a taxi to the Int. Airport I waited patiently in the queue after finally finding the right place and i walked up to the desk.. handed over my passport to the kind gentleman and gave a code for my electronic ticket. he asked me the details over and said he couldnt find anything on the system. I practically fainted and ran to the nearest payphone and after trying to get help from non-english speaking guard through frantic signs on what i was trying to do the phone finally connected to my dad. Off course it was 3am there and there was bugger all he could do so i ran back to the check in desk. I told them the situation and got pushed onto different people..i had 15 minutes before my flight was leaving & panic was setting in. I had no money, my luggage was on the plane and no one here to help me ..the people who my dad had booked the ticket with had nothing on thier systems ..but the money had been taken off my dads credit card..it seems my ticket was lost in their system somewhere..i threw the biggest tantrum of my life demanding they put me on that plane NOW! It should have won me an oscar but i made do with a free flight back home :D


apologies another epic post:beer:
 

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Well, I really hope that you find a trainer or group that feels right to you.. I love my trainer. she is so great with the dogs.. and is more than willing to work with dumb new owners.she makes you feel like you can train the dog to do anything with lots of kindness and love.. I really hope you find someone like that..I have a really good book on training, if I find it I will post the title for you.. I really like it.. it taught me a way to teach our girl Raven how to catch.. I had been trying for 4 years and after getting the book I taught her in 10minutes.. I will look for it this weekend..PS I am so jealous of you being in Japan.. I loved it when we lived in Misawa! I love the people, I love the culture, I love the weather, I loved the FOOD!! and I love the lifestyle..
 

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Discussion Starter #20
frznbuns said:
Well, I really hope that you find a trainer or group that feels right to you.. I love my trainer. she is so great with the dogs.. and is more than willing to work with dumb new owners.she makes you feel like you can train the dog to do anything with lots of kindness and love.. I really hope you find someone like that..I have a really good book on training, if I find it I will post the title for you.. I really like it.. it taught me a way to teach our girl Raven how to catch.. I had been trying for 4 years and after getting the book I taught her in 10minutes.. I will look for it this weekend..PS I am so jealous of you being in Japan.. I loved it when we lived in Misawa! I love the people, I love the culture, I love the weather, I loved the FOOD!! and I love the lifestyle..
Thanks :)

We are actually planning on visiting our friends in Misawa this winter for skiing... I'll make sure to take plenty of pics for you :)
 
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