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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all! :)

I am now the proud and very happy owner of an almost 7 week old little girl dobe. My daughter has Luke, Leia's big brother.

There were 7 pups in the litter. Not a 'typical' BYB, but also not a 'breeder' either. This was her first and last litter. It was just much more involved than she was prepared for. It took a lot out of the mother dog. I think it kind of freaked the breeder out. She thought she wanted to become a breeder.. and all that entails.. however, she just doesn't have the resources to do that. She knocked off quite a bit of her asking price for the two pups we got.

The pups (litter) are healthy and active. The daddy dobe (hired stud) was brought over for us to see. He was just gorgeous.

I am amazed at how smart little Leia is! She is already following, for the most part, simple commands like "sit", "come" and "stay". We are making great strides in the biting-everything-problem too. I've just been using a firm "NO BITE" and gentle tap on the nose when she bites me or something else she shouldn't. Now, I usually just have to say "NO BITE" and she stops. She does complain at me though! LOL She's so funny!

We have not had one single accident in the house! Today, she learned how to go up and down the deck steps. Such a little trooper!

She and Sophie are getting along wonderfully! Sophie, for those that don't know, is my rescue Rat Terrier. Poor Sophie never had a chance to learn anything as a litter mate or from her mama. So, the play going on between Sophie and Leia is very puppy-like. Sophie is learning as much as Leia is. Sophie just turned 3. I think having Leia around is going to further pull Sophie out of her neurotic shell. Sophie IS being a bit clingy with me.. but, I am chalking that up to a little jealously.

Here are a few pics from tonight. This all happened in my lap! :)

I'll try to get some much better ones of Leia tomorrow. :D:


Let's show those teeth now!



Where did she go??



It's time for a nap anyway. Zzzzzzzz.

 

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Very cute girl, but for someone who has posted on this site 45 times it's a little disappointing you haven't learned not to support BYB's and you haven't learned not to take a pup home so young. And it looks like you already had a pup from this litter even earlier??? Of course the BYB knocked off alot on the price, you took two pups off her hands.

Anyways, good luck with the two young pups.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
aww Leia is a little cutie, and so is Sophie. She seems a bit young to be away from mommy yet, but she is a sweet looking little puppy. I look forward to more pics.

She is a little too young, but her mama just couldn't handle feeding all of them any longer. She was avoiding them much more than she was with them.

Leia is eating well. I am waiting patiently for our TSC to open so I can get a high quality food to get her on. It is supposed to open this weekend.

Her crate is supposed to be here tomorrow. Crate training has already begun with a carrier/kennel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Very cute girl, but for someone who has posted on this site 45 times it's a little disappointing you haven't learned not to support BYB's and you haven't learned not to take a pup home so young. And it looks like you already had a pup from this litter even earlier??? Of course the BYB knocked off alot on the price, you took two pups off her hands.

Anyways, good luck with the two young pups.
Uh, no.. I don't have another pup from earlier. What gave you that idea?

Also, I only have one pup. My daughter and her husband have the other.

I don't support BYB's, and I don't consider the girl I got Leia from as a BYB. She wanted to become a large breeder. She is young (23). She discovered very quickly how much work was involved. She has a young child, and just knows she can't dedicate enough time or money into breeding right now. She was just completely overwhelmed. Every breeder has to start somewhere(or not). Every situation is different as well.
 

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She is a little too young, but her mama just couldn't handle feeding all of them any longer. She was avoiding them much more than she was with them.

Leia is eating well. I am waiting patiently for our TSC to open so I can get a high quality food to get her on. It is supposed to open this weekend.

Her crate is supposed to be here tomorrow. Crate training has already begun with a carrier/kennel.
There really isn't an excuse for supporting a BYB. A breeder is either GOOD or BAD. There is no in between. They are either responsible or irresponsible. They should have started weaning by then of course she wasn't able to handle feeding all of them. A good breeder would have started the weaning process. Another excuse for the BYB to dump them off on new owners. She's not just a little young. It can create behavior problems throughout life.

I apologize because this post probably sounds pretty crappy. But I'm really disappointed when people are given facts about BYB and then still go out and support them.
 

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Uh, no.. I don't have another pup from earlier. What gave you that idea?

Also, I only have one pup. My daughter and her husband have the other.

I don't support BYB's, and I don't consider the girl I got Leia from as a BYB. She wanted to become a large breeder. She is young (23). She discovered very quickly how much work was involved. She has a young child, and just knows she can't dedicate enough time or money into breeding right now. She was just completely overwhelmed. Every breeder has to start somewhere(or not). Every situation is different as well.
You have been on this site for awhile and have no doubt read many a thread about BYB's and why not to support them, but what's done is done. Fact is this BYB was supported by you twice. The line about not having time or money and giving discounts are typical BYB phrases -- don't be surprised if your "breeder" pops up with another litter in a few months. That being said you can still be excited about your new baby girl and there is a ton of information on this site to learn more and more about her; just try to absorb it this time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You have been on this site for awhile and have no doubt read many a thread about BYB's and why not to support them, but what's done is done. Fact is this BYB was supported by you twice. The line about not having time or money and giving discounts are typical BYB phrases -- don't be surprised if your "breeder" pops up with another litter in a few months. That being said you can still be excited about your new baby girl and there is a ton of information on this site to learn more and more about her; just try to absorb it this time.

First, she didn't offer a discount. I asked for it.

Secondly, you are assuming a whole lot. Not every person that tries to become a breeder is a typical BYB. I talked on the phone with this girl for weeks before going to see the pups. I saw her situation etc. Don't be so quick to judge. :)

I am not a first time dobie owner.
 

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First, she didn't offer a discount. I asked for it.

Secondly, you are assuming a whole lot. Not every person that tries to become a breeder is a typical BYB. I talked on the phone with this girl for weeks before going to see the pups. I saw her situation etc. Don't be so quick to judge. :)

I am not a first time dobie owner.
A BYB is a BYB. Either they are reputable, health testing, showing/working/doing something, temperament testing, etc. or they are not. It's relatively simple. There isn't any assuming. The facts are the facts.

Also the comment "every breeder has to start somewhere" just pushes me over the dge. no they don't. They have a choice. Breed responsibly or not. You don't get a free get out of jail free card becuase you are a new breeder and you decided to start by being a BYB.
 

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Well sorry, but I am going to judge. All of the information about Dobermanns and their problems as well as how to raise a litter is out there. One only has to go to the internet or read a book. All it takes is even just a little research to know whether or not you are going to be able to do right by the animals you have put in this position.
Therefore, there is no excuse for this type of breeding and this awful care of the dam and puppies. The poor mother was nursing a litter at 7 weeks of age??? And then sending them home a week early because Mom cannot stand nursing them anymore and you might (god forbid) have to spend money on food? That is just crazy. And so disturbing.
And I think another poster is correct in that this poor dam will probably be pregnant again on her very next heat. And this so called "breeder" will probably give the same sob story to the buyers of the next litter. Be willing to bet on it.
Being ignorant and causing an animal harm because of it cannot not be excused because you are to lazy to find the information, learn from it, and do the right thing.
That said, good luck with your new baby.
 

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First, she didn't offer a discount. I asked for it.

Secondly, you are assuming a whole lot. Not every person that tries to become a breeder is a typical BYB. I talked on the phone with this girl for weeks before going to see the pups. I saw her situation etc. Don't be so quick to judge. :)

I am not a first time dobie owner.
Then if you asked you should have just offered to take them to releive her of her uncomforatable position. No charge, no money changing hands.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Arrogance pushes me to the edge. The pups were eating dry food (not moistened any longer) by 5 weeks.

Here's an analogy. Lets say you want to be a radio personality. You love everything about radio. You read up on every thing you can get your hands on how to do it. You practice over and over. You just know you can produce good commericals, do a morning show and broadcast from locations. You take whatever tests you need to. Everyone says you are witty and funny.
You can't wait to get started. You get a part time job at a top rated station near you. Suddenly, you are asked to fill in for one of the morning show hosts. You are so excited! Here's your chance to do what you've always wanted to do.. fulfill your dreams and passions. Only, you suck at it. You can't handle pressure and deadlines. It only takes a couple of weeks to realize you've made a huge mistake. You quit.

That is the breeder I got Leia from. She found a titled sire. Her dog is registered, but never been a show dog. She got all the testing done on her dog, and checked to make sure the sire was also clear.

That said, thanks to those that have given me the courtesy of reading through.

I am excited to have Leia. She is strictly a companion dog.
 

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That is the breeder I got Leia from. She found a titled sire. Her dog is registered, but never been a show dog. She got all the testing done on her dog, and checked to make sure the sire was also clear.

That said, thanks to those that have given me the courtesy of reading through.

I am excited to have Leia. She is strictly a companion dog.
So you didn't check the pedigree? It's not just the 2 dogs that are bred, the pedigrees are bred. So far, I've bred one litter of Vizslas. I did not breed my first bitch because I felt she did not have the temperament. She was a Ch, Junior hunter with excellent agility titles and a tested pedigree. I did not breed either of my Doberman males. 1 was a Ch, agility titles and WAC.

Are you saying it's ok to breed lower quality dogs for a "strictly" companion dog? I disagree. I refuse to breed for "companions."

As far as testing, if this isn't yoru first Dobe you really should know to look at the history vertically and laterally.

I'm a little confused. If the puppies were eating dry food at 5 weeks, why the excuse to let them go so early? I thought the mamma wasn't able to handle feeding them was the byb excuse?
 

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Arrogance pushes me to the edge. The pups were eating dry food (not moistened any longer) by 5 weeks.

Here's an analogy. Lets say you want to be a radio personality. You love everything about radio. You read up on every thing you can get your hands on how to do it. You practice over and over. You just know you can produce good commericals, do a morning show and broadcast from locations. You take whatever tests you need to. Everyone says you are witty and funny.
You can't wait to get started. You get a part time job at a top rated station near you. Suddenly, you are asked to fill in for one of the morning show hosts. You are so excited! Here's your chance to do what you've always wanted to do.. fulfill your dreams and passions. Only, you suck at it. You can't handle pressure and deadlines. It only takes a couple of weeks to realize you've made a huge mistake. You quit.

That is the breeder I got Leia from. She found a titled sire. Her dog is registered, but never been a show dog. She got all the testing done on her dog, and checked to make sure the sire was also clear.

That said, thanks to those that have given me the courtesy of reading through.

I am excited to have Leia. She is strictly a companion dog.
Well then, at least your chosen career hasn't harmed any living creatures. This is where the importance of education PRIOR comes in - when what you do will affect other beings. This Mom and her pups had no choice in the matter and now that it is too overwhelming, they are the ones who pay the price.
Obviously you feel a strong need to protect this "breeder". That's okay, everyone here is entitled to their own opinion. But it still doesn't make it right.

And BTW, you said.....

She is a little too young, but her mama just couldn't handle feeding all of them any longer. She was avoiding them much more than she was with them.
That would not lead one to believe they were being supplemented or weaned in any way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
She initially was keeping the mother and pups in her house. She got a kennel for them a couple of weeks ago. Kind of hard to keep pups away in such close proximity.

Like I've said.. the girl is young. She's also naive. I can guarantee you she won't be having any more litters.

The sire was awesome. He loved all over his pups. He was extremely well mannered and friendly. His pedigree was fine.. I'm not interested in showing, titles or any of that. I AM interested in how dobes are trained and raised by others. That's why I'm here. As I have said in a previous post, I am disabled. I'm a retired radio personality. I live way out in the country. My kids are grown and married and my husband works.

My previous dobe was also a companion. I got her almost 30 years ago. She lived to be 14 and was the most loyal dog. She minded like no other dog we've ever owned. She was well pedigreed as well, but I never bothered with registering, etc. If I'm not going to further a particular blood line, what's the point?
 

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A puppy this young still needs its litter mates to learn good behavior skills.

I am always amased at how many people want to take a puppy home at 6 weeks. I will not let any go until 9 weeks after the crop and 2 sets of shots.

There is no way in any that this puppy has been able to aquire 2 sets of shots. You had been better darn careful about parvo. Dobermans are very suspectabe to this disease and it is deathly.

Anyone who contants me asking for a "discount" is discounted.

I know that you wanted a puppy very badly at the lowest cost to you. But there was an extremely high cost to this puppy and its littermates.

The excuse of being a "big breeder" doesn't fly with anyone who knows what it takes in this world. They start by getting into the breed with a mentor and finding a well bred dog and showing it thus proving it.

I bet this bitch is going to have an "accidential" breeding next.

This is why shelters and rescues are full. Nothing spent on this pup really from all sides breeder/buyer; then when the puppy becomes problematic it is dumped.

I suppose you leave the puppy and go to work during the day with no one to watch too. Sweet inocents become someone else's problem. There's always an excuse. This stuff makes me/us sick.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
A puppy this young still needs its litter mates to learn good behavior skills.

I am always amased at how many people want to take a puppy home at 6 weeks. I will not let any go until 9 weeks after the crop and 2 sets of shots.

There is no way in any that this puppy has been able to aquire 2 sets of shots. You had been better darn careful about parvo. Dobermans are very suspectabe to this disease and it is deathly.

Anyone who contants me asking for a "discount" is discounted.

I know that you wanted a puppy very badly at the lowest cost to you. But there was an extremely high cost to this puppy and its littermates.

The excuse of being a "big breeder" doesn't fly with anyone who knows what it takes in this world. They start by getting into the breed with a mentor and finding a well bred dog and showing it thus proving it.

I bet this bitch is going to have an "accidential" breeding next.

This is why shelters and rescues are full. Nothing spent on this pup really from all sides breeder/buyer; then when the puppy becomes problematic it is dumped.

I suppose you leave the puppy and go to work during the day with no one to watch too. Sweet inocents become someone else's problem. There's always an excuse. This stuff makes me/us sick.

There it is... more assuming. Every single thing. That stuff makes me sick.
 

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Here's an analogy. Lets say you want to be a radio personality. You love everything about radio. You read up on every thing you can get your hands on how to do it. You practice over and over. You just know you can produce good commericals, do a morning show and broadcast from locations. You take whatever tests you need to. Everyone says you are witty and funny.
You can't wait to get started. You get a part time job at a top rated station near you. Suddenly, you are asked to fill in for one of the morning show hosts. You are so excited! Here's your chance to do what you've always wanted to do.. fulfill your dreams and passions. Only, you suck at it. You can't handle pressure and deadlines. It only takes a couple of weeks to realize you've made a huge mistake. You quit.
QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but this is really a horrible analogy. Puppies are LIVING BEINGS and are not remotely comparable to trying to be a radio personality. You cannot "quit" this responsiblity. A responsible human being would remain committed to the well being of the litter for their entire lives not just until they can pawn them off on someone else.

I hope to god that this BYB learned a lesson and spayed her bitch. Unfortunately, her horrible decisions have earned her money from YOU, making her more likely to breed again. However you try to minimize your impacts on the situation, you are unlikely to change any minds here. Best of luck with your puppy.
 
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