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Can somebody please explain to me, how can you tell if a Doberman is a EURO or American from a pedigree?

Also how can we learn from the ancestries of the specific Doberman from his/ her pedigree?
 

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My oldest Dobie is 11 3/4yrs old. He is part Russian and part from a breeder in Kansas. We bought his nephew (he will be 3 in Feb. '22) who is also 1/4 Russian and VERY large! I am going to have him tested through VetGen before offering him for breeding.
 

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My oldest Dobie is 11 3/4yrs old. He is part Russian and part from a breeder in Kansas. We bought his nephew (he will be 3 in Feb. '22) who is also 1/4 Russian and VERY large! I am going to have him tested through VetGen before offering him for breeding.
What exactly are you having VetGen test for?

Also--VERY large? What is his height at the shoulder? What is his weight? Who are his sire and dam (those would be listed on his registration.)

I ask questions like this because when someone's first description of their do is "VERY large" I tend to think immediately that this is an oversized Doberman. Oversized is not a great attribute in a Dobe--with it often come a variety of health issues.

dobebug
 

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My oldest Dobie is 11 3/4yrs old. He is part Russian and part from a breeder in Kansas. We bought his nephew (he will be 3 in Feb. '22) who is also 1/4 Russian and VERY large! I am going to have him tested through VetGen before offering him for breeding.
Erm.

What ELSE will you be doing to prove he's breed-worthy? Will you be titling in any venue? How about the health tests that require more than just genetic testing? How many of his ancestors are still alive, and of those who died, how old and what caused their deaths?

Why do you feel an oversized dog is a good bet to breed? Have you read the Standards?
 

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"Oversized"... Reminds me of the mid 70's. Oversized Dobermans were all the rage. I had a boy named Britten David. He was a handsome dog of about 80-85lb. He was just a pet, but his vet, who was a Doberman ear cropper and occasional judge, often referred to him as a "very nice example of the breed".

My neighbor had a huge 110+lb. Dobe named Turk. The two dogs were about the same age. The owner frequently told me that Britt was too small to be a purebred Doberman (I still have his AKC registration certificate. LOL). He also often commented on the size of Turk, as he grew larger and larger, like it was something to be admired. The 2 dogs played together as pups, but as they matured, they did not get along. So, after a while, I very rarely saw Turk. One day, I ran into my neighbor and asked him about Turk. He said that he had just dropped dead a couple of days before. The dog was maybe 3 years old.

John L.
Portland OR
 

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What exactly are you having VetGen test for?

Also--VERY large? What is his height at the shoulder? What is his weight? Who are his sire and dam (those would be listed on his registration.)

I ask questions like this because when someone's first description of their do is "VERY large" I tend to think immediately that this is an oversized Doberman. Oversized is not a great attribute in a Dobe--with it often come a variety of health issues.

dobebug
I found Sebastian's Reg. Cert. It lists his sire as Klassik-Allert Lobster (RUS)
His Dam was Greta - from Kansas, she just passed at almost 13 yrs.
 

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With my Rottie bitches, each of which was about 85 pounds in good shape, I'd often have people come up to me and ask if my girl was a puppy, then remark on how small she was, then tell me all about someone they knew with a 150+ pound male.

I'd make my eyes as wide as possible, try for an astonished expression, and say, "Oh, that's so sad. Was he terribly overweight or just badly bred?" It usually shut down the talk, but sometimes would lead to a halfway decent chance to explain breed standards, etc.
 

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Well, I dd a pretty cursory look in DobeQuest on the information and I'm kind of surprised that he's that big--looks like his immediate relative were pretty all Russian registered--and I'm not any kind of expert on Euro pedigrees but it also looked like their background might have been Netherlands bred--and the titles mostly looked Euro--so that means bred to the German standard which actually has a disqualification for oversized. But the top size allowed under that standard is only about 3/8th of an inch taller than AKC.

I do know that some Euro dogs have been imported before they were fully grown and had junior titles (one of the classic examples was a male that a big puppy mill imported and who was huge when fully grown and who evidently produced his size--the advertising him extensively and talked about his size. But it's not really a plus.

If anyone else goes looking--all of the pedigrees are incomplete and some of the Russian dogs are hard to find since whoever did the entering was putting RUS in front of the kennel name instead of after the Russian titles and kennel name and dogs name--which is where the (RUS) should go--as it designated a foreign bred dog--in this case Russian.

My apologies for getting into an area where I really do lack knowlege.

dobebug
 

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The COI under the link @Kansadobe posted is over 24. To my uneducated eyes that seems high. Can an expert confirm or correct?
 

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The COI under the link @Kansadobe posted is over 24. To my uneducated eyes that seems high. Can an expert confirm or correct?
This is way outside the purview of this thread, and you can certainly start a new one, but in general, Dobermans have an average genetic COI of around 40%. It's astonishingly bad. There have been a few discussions here on DT about the horribly bad genetic diversity in our breed. It's actually fairly rare to find Dobermans with genetic COIs in the low 20s.
 
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This is way outside the purview of this thread, and you can certainly start a new one, but in general, Dobermans have an average genetic COI of around 40%. It's astonishingly bad. There have been a few discussions here on DT about the horribly bad genetic diversity in our breed. It's actually fairly rare to find Dobermans with genetic COIs in the low 20s.
Sorry and thank you!
 

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Oh, it's no problem. It's a really interesting and important topic (IMO), I just think maybe not necessarily relevant to this thread? Although, on second thought, maybe not. If he truly has a pretty low COI there is an argument for that as an asset to the breed.
 

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Oh, it's no problem. It's a really interesting and important topic (IMO), I just think maybe not necessarily relevant to this thread? Although, on second thought, maybe not. If he truly has a pretty low COI there is an argument for that as an asset to the breed.
I deleted the details so as not to confuse the thread but it was 24.51%
 

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With my Rottie bitches, each of which was about 85 pounds in good shape, I'd often have people come up to me and ask if my girl was a puppy, then remark on how small she was, then tell me all about someone they knew with a 150+ pound male.

I'd make my eyes as wide as possible, try for an astonished expression, and say, "Oh, that's so sad. Was he terribly overweight or just badly bred?" It usually shut down the talk, but sometimes would lead to a halfway decent chance to explain breed standards, etc.
That's one of my FAVORITE methods to handle that discussion in person.
 

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I deleted the details so as not to confuse the thread but it was 24.51%
I don't think it's possible 'cause his parents are half-siblings
 
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