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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Well, it's finally come, the decision to ban docking in the UK.

We all knew that the time would come when this would happen, deep inside not one single one of us wished any hurt to our beloved dogs, and that included docking and cropping.

Have our Breeders become complacent? We could have prepared for this eventuality by breeding in the desired characteristics from related breeds but we didn't and now what?
 

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Well...........I'm not a breeder.....I can maybe see the legislation on cropping....but docking is done at such an early age.....I kind of equate it to male circumcision. It is done without anethesia and no man I've ever met remembers it happening. I prefer docked tails myself.....I like that little wiggle butt with the nubby tail. Ears I don't care if they are cropped or not. Rudi is uncropped, I would like to have a cropped female int he future.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
True, Icannot see the beauty in an undocked dobermann as the tail just doesn't look right, but playing the devils advocate, an uncropped dobi doesn't seem to bother me but then in the UK we don't know any difference. THe cropped ears do give the dobi an added elegance.

It is a shame that no serious breeding programme took place to breed in desired characteristics like the work carried out by a Stynmere kennels
http://www.steynmere.com/BOBTAILS.html so it can be done.
 

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Well, it's finally come, the decision to ban docking in the UK.

We all knew that the time would come when this would happen, deep inside not one single one of us wished any hurt to our beloved dogs, and that included docking and cropping.

Have our Breeders become complacent? We could have prepared for this eventuality by breeding in the desired characteristics from related breeds but we didn't and now what?
How were breeders supposed to breed bobtail in?
 

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AKC would never back that type of breeding program to take place. It's too bad. But I do see thier points too. If you go on to read about how the "Bob-tailed" Boxer came to be, it was at one point crossed with a Corgi. I wonder how many generations of pure blood they would need to get in order to register with AKC.... It is a really neat study.
 

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True, Icannot see the beauty in an undocked dobermann as the tail just doesn't look right, but playing the devils advocate, an uncropped dobi doesn't seem to bother me but then in the UK we don't know any difference. THe cropped ears do give the dobi an added elegance.

It is a shame that no serious breeding programme took place to breed in desired characteristics like the work carried out by a Stynmere kennels
http://www.steynmere.com/BOBTAILS.html so it can be done.
He was working with a lethal gene in doing that experiment, which he mentions in his conclusions. Doubling up on the gene that causes natural bob tails in corgi's can produce all sorts of terrible birth defects. It was an interesting experiment, but not one that probably should be carried out on any large scale.
 

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I read that those pages about that experiment sometime last year, and while I agree with Murrey, that it was an interesting experiment by all means.... but not something to pursue with all c/d breeds. Not only with the possible birth defects, I feel that would take something away from the breed, even though it was eventually bred back to looklike a boxer. If anyone understands what I mean.

If it comes to that, IMHO I actually prefer them natural, so a doberman is a doberman, and is just as talented and fabulous with or without ears and tails. *shrug*
 

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I knew of a person who had a Doberman who ears stood naturaly. She planned on holding this dog back for breeding. Which was terrible because the dog was not great at all. He had the lightest eyes I have ever seen in a Black dobe. Terrible front and topline. Sometimes trying to breed for these kinds of things can do more harm then good.

It's horrible our goverments try to restrict our right to choose what is best for our pets. They might as well ban spaying and Neutering as well. I'm sure there both as painful as cropping and docking. Heck, but then so is having puppies...
 

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No offence, but surely there are more pressing issues facing the British Parliament than arguing about whether docking a dog is to be considered illegal? Are the national kennel clubs not up in arms? And does it apply to docking horses as well?

Have to agree w/ Riagogogo's devil's advocate position - seems a bit ironic that docking an animal is 'inhumane' but circumcision isn't...
 

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Circumcision is done for health reason. Looking at this from another angle, could not docking be considered health reason? I have seen posts on here that folks that have dobes with natural tails, have had walls with blood smears from the tail wagging and banging the wall until it bleeds. It would go to reason that if a dobe would do that then the tail would not have too many nerves in it. I also saw something on here at the same time about tail splitting. So one could reason that it is benificial health wise. Maybe this is stretching it a bit but following Rigagogogo's lead you could take it there.

Just a little fodder for thought.
 

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There is a segment of the population who believes everything that has been proven to work is wrong, and needs to be replaced with something that sounds good. I have my opinions as to who these people are, and where they came from, but right now they're the people who are making the descisions for the rest of us.
 

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The problem i see with it is that it will increase the activity of doing the deed in substandard conditions. Sure only a select few people will be doing it, illegally, but personally I think I would rather see it done propperly in a sanitized and humane environment on a large scale than have a few people put rubber bands around tails, cut tails at home with scissors and causing complications etc. Bottom line, It's still going to happen. Here is a radical idea: take the dogs off the coast into international waters and perform the action there on a large aircraft carrier-verterinary clinic.
 

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The problem i see with it is that it will increase the activity of doing the deed in substandard conditions. Sure only a select few people will be doing it, illegally, but personally I think I would rather see it done propperly in a sanitized and humane environment on a large scale than have a few people put rubber bands around tails, cut tails at home with scissors and causing complications etc.
I know some that do tail banding. But yes, I would rather it be done by a vet, at the proper time (while they are very young), with the proper supervision and care. I don't know much about that country, but here in the US, they should be focusing on real problems like dog fighting, neglect, and enforcing existing humane and pet laws instead of making more and more laws. Honestly, I think a dog spay is WAY more invasive and risky than a tail dock. I know, apples to oranges.
 

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Not to mention the fact that they haven't banned dew claw removal which is far worse on a puppy than a tail dock,but hey ho it's just big brother Blair taking away a bit more of our freedom of choice,and of course all the top breeders will abide by the law so they can carry on showing and all the byb's will profit because they will carry on docking regardless!!!
 

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As others have mentioned, my concern is people docking and cropping in unsanitary and inhumane conditions. I prefer the look of a cropped/docked Dobe. Funny thing is, when I think of other breeds that are cropped/docked such as Great Dane and Boxer, I kind of like uncropped. But those beautiful Dobe ears standing so regal. To me its gorgeous. When Lexi was cropped she came home and trust me, the way she was running around, her post-op pain was minimal. Funny too how so many of these UK sites still use the cropped and docked Dobe logos. Maybe they should ban the logo to.
Lisa
 

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Having done tail docking as an RVT for many years, I can tell you the pups react very little to the snip. They protest much more loudly to being stepped on or nipped by their littermates. The dewclaw removal is more painful but quicker now that they use Vetbond tissue glue rather than a suture. I always found it kind of strange though, looking at those 8-10 tails lined up afterwards on a paper towel!!
 

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Yup, I have done docking and dew claws too as a VT. The Vet asked me to do it, and I was rather grossed out, but did it anyway. He shaved down one spot on thier tail, marked a spot on the correct vertibra, and gave me a pair of Gillotine nail clippers, which we ran the tails into and then cut. After he gave them a few stictches.

Then he had me try to cut the dews, which I had to use scissors, and did'nt feel comfortable doing because I feared I would cut to close to the foot. Off they went, he only used a nitrate stick to stop bleeding and then tissue glue to hold them. This was done on 6, 3 day old Doberman puppies. They did cry for a minute, but as soon as they were returned to the basket with the otherS the crying ceased. I have seen it done many times, though that was my only time preforming it myself. I got lucky to have black, blue, red and fawn dobies puppies to work with.

I was left with multi colored tails on the table which the doctors asked me If I would like to keep and make a necklace out of! He was an awesome vet. I really don't think it bothered them much at all. I have seen many more things done that are a hell of a lot more stressful and painful to the animals.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks to everyone for their thoughts. I know that in other artcles I've read, the genes for the bob tail ae linked to other deformities which apparently cold be as severe as missing ribs etc,. it may be that we accept that the dobermann will have to have a longer tail, part of the problem is that with cropping and docking, it is unclear how the ears or tails would appear naturally, at the point when the dogs are bred from.

I note that thete are breeds such as the miniture pincher and manchester terrier with naturally erect ears and it may be possible to bred this characteristic in using suitable candidates.
 
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