Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, I have two questions about my Dobe girl, Missy. She's under one year, intact (not for long!!!) and has energy to spare (an understatement) She has two places, under her eye, and on her back leg, that fur seems to come and go. She's a dark black and rust so I'm not thinking it's dilute alopecia. It always has fur, but varying amounts. I asked her previous owner what they were, she said the vet guessed they were old injuries. Anyone heard of it? It doesn't look like ringworm, also no smell or irritation...

Also concerned about Missy's weight. She's so thin. Her coat is very shiny and she's active, but you can see the points of her hips and the lower part of some of her ribs. Spine is not showing but easily felt. She eats 6 cups of proplan/evo mixed together, 2 cups 3x a day. She's my first Doberman and I don't know if this is normal. I'll try to add photos

Thank you everyone
 

·
Got mutt?
Joined
·
13,836 Posts
Have you taken her to the vet? I would take her to the vet for a comprehensive checkup, including bloodwork (especially thyroid), skin scrapes and a fecal. Good luck with your girl, and I hope you get it sorted out.
 

·
u mad?
Joined
·
6,476 Posts
What Rosemary said.

I like being able to see some rib but not hip bones, that's too skinny for me. I agree that a vet visit should be in your (and her) near future.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
She hasn't been to see my vet. When I got her a few months ago the lady had just taken her in and had the vet records for me showing heartworm negative, no parasites in her fecal test, heartworm meds, etc. We're moving and will need a new vet anyway, so I'll take her in. I did call the vet and describe that she's super high strung, thin, and seems to drink a lot and asked if I should get her checked for hyperthyroidism. I was told it's super rare and she's probably just a typical Doberman puppy in a hot Florida summer, but I could bring her in anyway. I have selected a trainer for Missy where we're moving and she wants us to get bloodwork done also to rule out any causes for her high strung nature. I'll get her in with a different vet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
640 Posts
Definitely check her thyroid. My guy was diagnosed as hypo at a year and a half. If they come from less than stellar breeders, this can be a very common thing (case in point, my dog's entire litter of 3 has been diagnosed as hypothyroid in their 2nd year). Push for this test even if your vet thinks it unlikely (as mine did).

I'm not sure why you mean exactly when you refer to your girl as "high-strung" but my first indicator that something was off with my guy was behavioural issues such as sound sensitivity that had never been there before, and a clingy-ness that was out of character for him.
 

·
Got mutt?
Joined
·
13,836 Posts
Hypothyroid (low thyroid) is more common in dogs than hyperthyroid (high thyroid), but it is not unheard of for a dog to be hyperthyroid. Dobes, as a breed, are very prone to low thyroid.

Just fyi, in cats, it tends to be just the opposite, with cats tending to become hyperthyroid.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ah, thanks for the info everyone. I looked up hypothyroidism and she also gets "pimples" which I never thought much of, but says it is a symptom. Hair loss is also a symptom (though it says bilaterally... Maybe hers is atypical) all in all too many physical symptoms that could point to thyroid being off, we are going to have a blood test ASAP. I always thought of hypothyroid dogs as overweight dogs but maybe not!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
640 Posts
Glad you're getting her tested. FYI, I've had 3 dogs that were hypothyroid now, and not one has been overweight. I've had to push hard to convince my vet each time that I wanted the test based on energy levels/skin or coat/behaviour that was out of the ordinary.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,037 Posts
Be sure to do the full panel thyroid test.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Is there anything else that I should have them look for in her blood? At the risk of sounding ignorant l, what is a "full panel thyroid" vs. a regular check? Can I just use the term full panel and the vet will understand or are there certain levels of X I need to tell them to look for? Thanks!!!

Her breath is also metallic smelling.... This just occurred to me as a potential problem since I read about pimples being a symptom and never thought anything of it. She did have a baby canine tooth that never came out, and I coaxed it out about a week ago (very loose, no protest from her or I would have had a vet remove it under anesthetic) I do not think it could be vWD as she's cropped, docked, and had just a tiny speck of blood when her baby tooth came out. Ugh, now I'm worrying! Off to the vet we go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,037 Posts
If you say full panel that should do it. Most just run a T3 or T4. I dont know much about throid either as never had trouble with it yet, thank goodness. Dont know about the metallic breath either, except blood will smell metallic, so maybe teething has been causing it. There is more to the vWD, too. If you dont know your dogs status, I would find out before any potential problems crop up. vWD testing is a DNA test thru Vet Gen. Most vets try to run the Elisha, which is no good. Remember dna, cheek swab or blood, only. There is another company that does dna cheaper, but I cant remember the name of it. Ask if you need anything special run to check her kidneys if she is drinking excess water, tho it is probably the hot weather. Good luck and keep us informed. PS, we would love to see pictures of your new baby!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,228 Posts
Actually, thyroid issues are rather common in this breed.
Thyroid issues are very common in Dobermans (and many other breeds) but the common problem is HYPOthyroidism not HYPER thyroidism.

Hyperthyroidism is the common thyroid problem in cats. In dogs it would be very rare. Hypothyroidism, low thyroid levels, is common in dogs and rare in cats.

That having been said--she does sound too thin--I agree that while I want to see the shadow of the last two or three ribs I don't want to see hip bones.

I would not be feeding Evo to a puppy--the manufacturer has always said that it is not an appropriate diet for puppies. And I'd be looking for a more calory dense food (look for the calory ratings) so that you don't have to keep increasing the amount of food to get a few more calories in her.

Doberman puppies and young adults are normally very active, busy dogs--I wouldn't think that there was anything wrong with that. But just to check everything out I might have a full thyroid panel done even at her age.

Good luck...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thank you all again. I have a sneaking suspicion I know which breeder she came from (about 10 minutes from the woman I got her from, and all her other homes were) and lets just say she's not breeding tested dogs (actually she breeds an albino)

I'm writing all of this down to take to a vet with me. Do you think it's okay to wait about 2 weeks until we're firmly moved or does she need to go, now? I'd like to get this going with a vet we'll continue to see, but if it might be damaging her organs or something we'll be more expedient.

since I am on mobile I can't post pics, but here is a link to a few pics of Missy to show her body condition. You can see the thin hair near her eye in the 2nd pic. You can also see her gimpy ear is doing a lot better (one was folded over her head completely when I got her)

Pictures by ThatDogLady - Photobucket
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,037 Posts
Heck, my phone wont display her pics, will have to get on a computer. Since you are feeding Evo, you might like Innova Red Meat, which is basically Evo w/grain. If you want to go grainless Orijen or Acana are the best and a good kibble. Orijen has a puppy formula, cant remember about Acana. But introduce gradually, plus you wont be feeding 6 cups as thats a Pro Plan amount. If you like Evo, you will LOVE Orijen. Stay away from lamb based kibbles as lamb doesnt build muscle like the other proteins. Whether you take her to the vet now is up to you as we cant tell much about her over the internet. But my thoughts are things dont usually get better by themselves, if something is wrong. You can always have her records transferred to the new vet...Meant to ask, how is her stool with her eating that much food? I wonder if some is just going thru her. Try putting her on some probiotics too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks LindaH! I think I've tried Innova Red Meat (has a Rottie on the bag?) and I did like the size of the kibble. We're in about the least pet friendly area I can think of, and finding a decent selection of dog food is tough. Moving to Tampa will be a huge improvement. I didn't know that about lamb! I thought it was good to rotate protein sources for dogs who can tolerate it. Maybe she's still too young for all this food shuffling. My GSD has bad diarrhea with most foods and is doing well on this combo do I put her on it too. She also gets an AKC multivitamin everyday, rinsed salmon/mackerel, or blanched eggs a few times a week. She had zero tolerance for are meaty bones for recreation so I stopped giving her those. She poops 3 or more times a day, small but bulky in consistency. She also has constant and horrific gas. Her coat is so shiny though, much improved from when she came to me. I'll look into the Orijen or back to the Acana. I'm wondering if Royal Canin makes a Doberman formula, and if they do, if it's any good...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,037 Posts
Shuffling, rotating foods...you said you were feeding Pro Plan/Evo mix? You're confusing me. Lamb is okay to rotate. You just dont want to raise a pup exclusively or heavily on it. I rotate close to every bag I buy or one can rotate every 2 or 3 bags. Have you fed Acana, why did you stop? Large amounts of gas are a sign the food doesnt agree with your pup. Really look at Orijen puppy. Its the best if you can afford it and it agrees with your girl. The supplimenting with fish/eggs is good. You might add sardines to the mix. Rotating should be great for a puppy, but stick to close the same calories. Later on, you can add Natures Variety Instinct, but it has too high calcium for puppies. You can read up on the sites below in my signature. Sorry, dont know what to tell you on your GSD. If its ok on current food, you may have to keep PP as its base food. Royal Canine isnt that good either. Read the sites below, especially the second one on how to read a label.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Sorry for not being very clear! I am currently feeding proplan/EVO as it's a good combo for my GSD who has always had issues, but in the past I've shuffled around and tried several foods. When I said "maybe she's too young for all this shuffling" it's because she's tried the same things he has, though she didn't have the issues he does. She seems to tolerate everything pretty well, even when it's mixed in faster than it probably should be. (he's been experimenting for almost a couple years now though, oi!) I'm sure you can understand why when I found a winning combo I grabbed onto it. Since I have used Acana before I'm comfortable putting Missy on it. I'm surprised Royal Canin isn't very good... As far as I can tell it's as expensive as it gets. Good to know!!

I'm going to look at the links provided mow. As far as raw bones for recreation, do you think if she kept getting them she'd stop getting diarrhea from them? I always freeze them well before hand, and don't offer a bone with too much meat. She loves them so much and I know they're good for her teeth, I'd like to let her have them once or twice a week.

Thanks bunches for answering all of my questions. It's a confusing world of canine nutrition!!
 

·
terriorist entertainer
Joined
·
2,404 Posts
bones usually have the opposite effect of binding up...so I suspect there's something funny going on in her tummy (the gas points to that too).
In that last photo, her hindquarters look like they're wasting a bit, so I'd be inclined to see a vet sooner rather than later, and have a full blood panel run.

As for food...you could also try a probiotic like wheat grass juice (I was put onto this when Zil got sick and it was a g-d-send!) and also slippery elm bark powder, just incase there's some irritable bowel stuff going on. With the amounts you are feeding her, it points towards a mal-absorbtion problem of some sort.
adding boiled rice, and/or oatmeal to her food might help to regulate the transit times in her GI tract. ...and I would probably try adding small amounts of raw chicken or turkey and see how she handles it.

This could take a while to pinpoint what the problem is....but a full blood panel is the only way to start to see what's really going on, on the inside.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,037 Posts
Why dont you try a small bag of Orijen Puppy and add it to the PP for the GSD in place of Evo while feeding it exclusively to Missy and see if it works for both of them. Orijen really is the best you can buy and is like 80% meat before processing. You shouldnt be feeding near as much as it is calorie dense. Her stool sounds okay, so I dont get why she is thin. I am really curious to see if she gains weight on Orijen. Sorry, never had that problem with bones. Maybe not let her chew it for long or try giving her 2 to 3 tablespoons of plain canned pumpkin before she gets the bone as it is good to cure diarrhea. I know I am pushing Orijen, but it is just such a superior food, cant seem to help myself.:)
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top