Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums banner

1 - 20 of 46 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,142 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now I know their will be a lot of different opinions on this. Some prefer taking professional classes which is what I have always done and others prefer to do it themselves. Call me crazy but I want to try to train Diesel myself.

I took my lab to basic training classes and he did learn a lot but a lot of what he ended up learning my dad and I taught him ourselves so I've been going back and forth trying to decide if I take Diesel or if I just do it myself and teach him what I want him to know and do. Theres a lot more I want him to know besides just your basic commands I also want to get him CGC certified.

I'm not worried with the social part of it because Diesel gets a lot of interaction with a lot of different dogs on a daily basis so he is becoming very well rounded when it comes to dealing with hyper dogs and dogs that have no interest in playing with him.

What do you suggest I do? Also for those who train themselves, do you have any books or DVDs or anything you use to help you? Did you think training yourself was more effective then professional training classes?

I am open to opinions so please feel free to share your stories and any help you can offer me. I'm at that point where I need to sign him up for classes if I decide to take him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,705 Posts
I have always done both. I train at home, and also in class. I teach all of the basics at home and then go to class to teach the dog that sit means sit regardless of what is going on around him/her.

Currently, I do 2 - 10 to 15 minute training sessions at home, daily. We also go to class Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,650 Posts
I prefer to train in a class situation, my guys tend to be very social so I want them to learn to focus on me with a lot of distractions. I also like feedback, I am currently working in rally and its good to have suggestions to improve on what I am doing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,142 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I have always done both. I train at home, and also in class. I teach all of the basics at home and then go to class to teach the dog that sit means sit regardless of what is going on around him/her.

Currently, I do 2 - 10 to 15 minute training sessions at home, daily. We also go to class Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday.
I do like the idea of classes cause of the distractions. I just feel like its kind of pointless now cause he knows all the basic commands cause I've taught them at home.

Do you just use the techniques you learn in class to teach at home? My problem is its been 9 years since my last pup so I'm a little rusty on how to train some things.

Also I seem to find something wrong with every place I look at haha I could just be being picky.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,142 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I prefer to train in a class situation, my guys tend to be very social so I want them to learn to focus on me with a lot of distractions. I also like feedback, I am currently working in rally and its good to have suggestions to improve on what I am doing.
I agree. That's why I like classes for the distraction but I feel like I could do the same thing outside my house. This is why I'm torn cause I see advantages on both sides.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
I trained Phoenix myself. I have never been to a training class with any of my dogs. I would like to start an agility class but that is in future. I also do things at the park to get him to focus on me when there are dogs around and playing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,142 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I trained Phoenix myself. I have never been to a training class with any of my dogs. I would like to start an agility class but that is in future. I also do things at the park to get him to focus on me when there are dogs around and playing.
If you don't mind me asking, how do you train? What do you use or how did you learn different training techniques?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
Alot of talking to different people and talking about what they do and what works for me. As far as basics like sit and lay down I would give him a treat when he was for example sitting. And say good sit and praise him. I did this at the beginning as a puppy and then eventually when I would ask for command he would do it. I did it this way instead of constantly pushing his butt down and making him do it. He knows about 10 of the stupid tricks just like pray,peek a boo, French kiss, turn around,army crawl,salute,gives both paws,play dead but those are just because we go to Alot of events( like rescue events) where they have trick competitions! Lol
I have never used a clicker before. I have a friend that used one and she would click it and give her dog a treat after a command. I just never understood why both? I feel like treat is enough. So I have never learned about clickers or used them.

I take Phoenix out and work on making him sit and telling him to stay then I walk away and then he gets the Comand to come.

Did you mean train all around or anything specific? I use Alot of praise and treats( a hint with treats is you can take one and break it up because they are happy about taste not size of treat )

My neighbor is k9 cop so he helps out if I need help but I have not had many problems. The only problem I have is recently he does not like dogs approaching him while leashed. But events he goes to will be Jammed packed with about 300 dogs and he is fine. So that is my latest project with him.

I have never had a jumping problem with him. He has never been allowed to stretch on put paws on me even at 15 lbs so I guess he never wanted to jump?
I laugh though because there is this guy at dog park and his dog is older than old and he comes to park just to try to hump everyone. But this guy literally tries to lecture everyone on how to train their dog because he watches cease Millan. Mean while his dog is having a grand ole time ontop of another dog. :p

I looked into doing a training class and went to talk to lady. She told me if I leave a sandwich on the counter and walk out of the room then my dog will be trained and will not jump up nd get it. It was hard to talk because she had 4 dogs that were barking whole time and jumping up on fence. I asked about her experience. She began to tell me she has read Alot of book.... On that note I walked out.

I hope I answered you. I am no pro but I have a very well behaved boy that is socialized from the 5 different dogs that visit weekly and our private dog park.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,142 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Alot of talking to different people and talking about what they do and what works for me. As far as basics like sit and lay down I would give him a treat when he was for example sitting. And say good sit and praise him. I did this at the beginning as a puppy and then eventually when I would ask for command he would do it. I did it this way instead of constantly pushing his butt down and making him do it. He knows about 10 of the stupid tricks just like pray,peek a boo, French kiss, turn around,army crawl,salute,gives both paws,play dead but those are just because we go to Alot of events( like rescue events) where they have trick competitions! Lol
I have never used a clicker before. I have a friend that used one and she would click it and give her dog a treat after a command. I just never understood why both? I feel like treat is enough. So I have never learned about clickers or used them.

I take Phoenix out and work on making him sit and telling him to stay then I walk away and then he gets the Comand to come.

Did you mean train all around or anything specific? I use Alot of praise and treats( a hint with treats is you can take one and break it up because they are happy about taste not size of treat )

My neighbor is k9 cop so he helps out if I need help but I have not had many problems. The only problem I have is recently he does not like dogs approaching him while leashed. But events he goes to will be Jammed packed with about 300 dogs and he is fine. So that is my latest project with him.

I have never had a jumping problem with him. He has never been allowed to stretch on put paws on me even at 15 lbs so I guess he never wanted to jump?
I laugh though because there is this guy at dog park and his dog is older than old and he comes to park just to try to hump everyone. But this guy literally tries to lecture everyone on how to train their dog because he watches cease Millan. Mean while his dog is having a grand ole time ontop of another dog. :p

I looked into doing a training class and went to talk to lady. She told me if I leave a sandwich on the counter and walk out of the room then my dog will be trained and will not jump up nd get it. It was hard to talk because she had 4 dogs that were barking whole time and jumping up on fence. I asked about her experience. She began to tell me she has read Alot of book.... On that note I walked out.

I hope I answered you. I am no pro but I have a very well behaved boy that is socialized from the 5 different dogs that visit weekly and our private dog park.
That answers my question perfectly :) I want him to be very well trained when it comes to all different kinds of situations. My boyfriend teaches the tricks haha

Everyone I have checked out seems to teach things he already knows so it just seems kind of pointless to pay money for things he already knows. Plus I'm just really picky. I want the best of the best to train him if I were to go to a class and there just doesn't seem to be that many options around me. Not to mention I want someone who has experience with dobermans.

I want to find a book or DVD that helps teach me how to teach him things because there are some commands I just don't know how to teach or remember how to teach.
 

·
joie de vivre
Joined
·
11,274 Posts
I train in group classes at my club and I train at home. I also get together occasionally with some friends from my club and we train in small groups at one of the women's homes (she has a private training facility).

I think there's benefits to all of it. I feel like I/we really need the class setting for agility training. The dogs need to be able to deal with the constant distractions as well as the pressure it adds to have some strangers around, dogs barking and running on other courses, noises of equipment from other rings, and so on.

Group training for agility has been really helpful with Fiona because she's so high prey drive that I struggled for a while with keeping her attention when a small dog would be running a course next to ours and it would zip past the fence near-by. Fi would try to break and chase it down (she couldn't get it to it for the fencing) so it's been priceless in helping break her of that. If we were training alone or in privates she wouldn't have been exposed to that for me to be able to work with her on it.

But we also do our own agility training at home with some equipment I have, as well as during off peak hours at the training club (I have 24-hour access to the facilities). How much independent training we do depends on my school load.

Obedience is basically the same. We're in formal classes but we also work on that stuff at home and other locations I find. Obedience is easier to work on independently because, until you get more advance in obedience, it doesn't require the equipment that even basic agility does.

Right now we're training 3 nights per week, 2 hours each, in formal classes. And we train about 30-45 minutes (give or take; depends on what we need to work on) per dog at home on the days we're not in class. For our independent training I use what I've learned at my training club both from other members whose experience and knowledge I trust and what we've learned in classes; I also use books I've read.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
609 Posts
I am not interested in going to training class for training under distraction. I can go to the pet store and train and get the same, if not more distractions. I will not go somewhere and have someone handle my dog. Training a dog is the foundation of the relationship dog and handler both share.

I train my own dog. But I am being trained by someone else. I work with my club once a week for a few hours. The rest of the week is on me. Whatever problem I encounter or goal we set at club, I try to perfect through the week. Not sure what people would consider this.

As for you training a dog, that is a question you have to ask yourself. Your dog will then be limited to your level as a trainer. This can be good and bad depending on your ability and goal you have for the dog.

As for a professional keep in mind that the level of training you get will only be as good as the trainer giving it.

I think a club setting is Ideal. It allows you to be the handler, trainer. But it gives you a network of other experienced handlers and their insights into how to reach your goals. For the most part I know how to handle my dog and get him to where I want.(I have to credit this knowledge to being mentored, and constantly trying to better myself as a trainer) But all to often I find myself seeking others opinions on how I can do this, or how can I do this better.


I feel as long as you are happy with the level of training you have given your dog, that is what matters. Regardless of who,when,where, it was done. Their are tons of book, DVD, and online articles/video you can use to train. The only thing I caution is everything is easy in theory, its the application of those theories that can be tricky.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,142 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I train in group classes at my club and I train at home. I also get together occasionally with some friends from my club and we train in small groups at one of the women's homes (she has a private training facility).

I think there's benefits to all of it. I feel like I/we really need the class setting for agility training. The dogs need to be able to deal with the constant distractions as well as the pressure it adds to have some strangers around, dogs barking and running on other courses, noises of equipment from other rings, and so on.

Group training for agility has been really helpful with Fiona because she's so high prey drive that I struggled for a while with keeping her attention when a small dog would be running a course next to ours and it would zip past the fence near-by. Fi would try to break and chase it down (she couldn't get it to it for the fencing) so it's been priceless in helping break her of that. If we were training alone or in privates she wouldn't have been exposed to that for me to be able to work with her on it.

But we also do our own agility training at home with some equipment I have, as well as during off peak hours at the training club (I have 24-hour access to the facilities). How much independent training we do depends on my school load.

Obedience is basically the same. We're in formal classes but we also work on that stuff at home and other locations I find. Obedience is easier to work on independently because, until you get more advance in obedience, it doesn't require the equipment that even basic agility does.

Right now we're training 3 nights per week, 2 hours each, in formal classes. And we train about 30-45 minutes (give or take; depends on what we need to work on) per dog at home on the days we're not in class. For our independent training I use what I've learned at my training club both from other members whose experience and knowledge I trust and what we've learned in classes; I also use books I've read.
When you say obedience is easier to work on independently do you mean it's easier for you to teach them at home instead of in a class? What books have you read for training?

Diesel is very distracted by other dogs which is my other problem. I think a class he would loose all focus on me which makes me want to make his training amazing at home before we work on dealing with other dogs.
 

·
Paralibrarian
Joined
·
6,168 Posts
I would have loved to go to classes, for the socialization.

I trained her on my own, though. I essentially read all of the books on training at my library (well, skimmed some. They were bad) and ordered others on ILL. Bought some. Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt and When Pigs Fly by Jane Killion are really useful, as well as The Thinking Dog by Gail Tamases Fisher(if you feel you're going to be into clicker training. I wish I'd gotten into it sooner) and Reaching the Animal Mind by Karen Pryor. The Kyra Sundance books are fun for tricks. We do "manners training" and "trick training", essentially. I used treats, sometimes luring, and frequently markers (clicker or "yes!"). I have a dog training ebook that I'm working on but need to 1. finish it and 2. come up with a witty title.

I don't have any DVD recommendations, but Kikkopup has a Youtube channel that can't be beat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,142 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I am not interested in going to training class for training under distraction. I can go to the pet store and train and get the same, if not more distractions. I will not go somewhere and have someone handle my dog. Training a dog is the foundation of the relationship dog and handler both share.

I train my own dog. But I am being trained by someone else. I work with my club once a week for a few hours. The rest of the week is on me. Whatever problem I encounter or goal we set at club, I try to perfect through the week. Not sure what people would consider this.

As for you training a dog, that is a question you have to ask yourself. Your dog will then be limited to your level as a trainer. This can be good and bad depending on your ability and goal you have for the dog.

As for a professional keep in mind that the level of training you get will only be as good as the trainer giving it.

I think a club setting is Ideal. It allows you to be the handler, trainer. But it gives you a network of other experienced handlers and their insights into how to reach your goals. For the most part I know how to handle my dog and get him to where I want.(I have to credit this knowledge to being mentored, and constantly trying to better myself as a trainer) But all to often I find myself seeking others opinions on how I can do this, or how can I do this better.


I feel as long as you are happy with the level of training you have given your dog, that is what matters. Regardless of who,when,where, it was done. Their are tons of book, DVD, and online articles/video you can use to train. The only thing I caution is everything is easy in theory, its the application of those theories that can be tricky.
My experience is what I'm nervous about. I agree with that I might not be able to give him the best level of training possible that's why I was wondering if there was a way for me to learn so I can then teach him.

I've looked at the akc clubs in my area and there aren't any close to me except for one and that's for sheepdogs. It gets frustrating because I want to be able to have someone to learn from but be able to teach diesel on my own if that makes sense.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
21,988 Posts
I do both. One reason I really like classes is that it helps keep me accountable. I am more likely to stick to my home training sessions when I am reporting back to an instructor. I also need a class setting for Shanoa to work in, because we do reactive dog stuff.

As far as being picky about trainers, I'm absolutely, incredibly picky. Here's a good place to search for trainers: Search for Professionals
 
  • Like
Reactions: kwhite30

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,142 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I would have loved to go to classes, for the socialization.

I trained her on my own, though. I essentially read all of the books on training at my library (well, skimmed some. They were bad) and ordered others on ILL. Bought some. Control Unleashed by Leslie McDevitt and When Pigs Fly by Jane Killion are really useful, as well as The Thinking Dog by Gail Tamases Fisher(if you feel you're going to be into clicker training. I wish I'd gotten into it sooner) and Reaching the Animal Mind by Karen Pryor. The Kyra Sundance books are fun for tricks. We do "manners training" and "trick training", essentially. I used treats, sometimes luring, and frequently markers (clicker or "yes!"). I have a dog training ebook that I'm working on but need to 1. finish it and 2. come up with a witty title.

I don't have any DVD recommendations, but Kikkopup has a Youtube channel that can't be beat.
We do clicker training but sometimes I don't always have it which I feel hurts his training. I have used some of kikopups videos. I love her. I wish she could come train Diesel haha

Finish your book so I can use it :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,142 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I do both. One reason I really like classes is that it helps keep me accountable. I am more likely to stick to my home training sessions when I am reporting back to an instructor. I also need a class setting for Shanoa to work in, because we do reactive dog stuff.

As far as being picky about trainers, I'm absolutely, incredibly picky. Here's a good place to search for trainers: Search for Professionals
I 100% agree with it keeps you on track. I've been bad the last couple days and slacked on his training which is horrible I know.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. I just got off the phone with a trainer but I'm not sure about them. She said she worked at a Doberman rescue and fostered a lot of them but was very quick to say they are easily aggressive dogs which kind of turned me off to them. I will check out that link. Thank you!

Should I just email some of the people on that list and tell them what I'm looking for?
 

·
Got mutt?
Joined
·
13,839 Posts
I train mainly on my own, with the occasional class at PetsMart thrown in (my Petsmart actually has a very good trainer) for help. Ilka was giving me fits when I got her (under-socialized, probably no training what-so-ever) and taking her to a class with a trainer who taught me how to clicker train has helped immensely. It had been 9 years since I'd had a pup, also, and Ilka was THE most hyper, active, hard-headed pup I've ever had.

If you want to check out some videos before you buy them, I reccommend going to bowwowflix.com. You can rent them (I guess it's like netflix), check out if you think it would help you, then send it back and get another one. Most of those DVDs I've seen are well over $50 to purchase, which is quite a chunk of change if you find out you hate it, and then can't return it.

ETA: The nearest AKC training club is about a 2 hour drive from me, so that's just not an option. I have to made do with what I've got.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kwhite30

·
joie de vivre
Joined
·
11,274 Posts
I am not interested in going to training class for training under distraction. I can go to the pet store and train and get the same, if not more distractions. I will not go somewhere and have someone handle my dog. Training a dog is the foundation of the relationship dog and handler both share.

Just curious about this statement...is that common? I always handle my own dogs but I train in AKC sports. There have been a few times a trainer has asked to work with my dog for a minute to try something or demonstrate something but I am their handler. Always. I wouldn't pay someone else to train my dog either. They're supposed to be educating me and giving me the tools so I can train my dogs.

I train my own dog. But I am being trained by someone else. I work with my club once a week for a few hours. The rest of the week is on me. Whatever problem I encounter or goal we set at club, I try to perfect through the week. Not sure what people would consider this.

As for you training a dog, that is a question you have to ask yourself. Your dog will then be limited to your level as a trainer. This can be good and bad depending on your ability and goal you have for the dog.

Agreed, completely. I have been my biggest training challenge because I'm such a novice. I am the single biggest limiting factor for my dogs. They're brilliant and they can and have done everything I've asked of them...but I have to know what and how to command it. And I don't always, which is why classes and training mentors have been an invaluable resource for me.

As for a professional keep in mind that the level of training you get will only be as good as the trainer giving it.

So, so true. And not all trainers are created equal. I know some people who are generally pretty good trainers in that they can literally train you how to do something. Sometimes just the one thing. They do well with most easy dogs and people but they aren't incredibly good problem solvers. Rather they're good at teaching a method and if that method doesn't work, they're at a loss as to how to help you move forward. Those 'trainers' seem to be a dime a dozen IME. I want a problem solver who really understands dog psychology and communication.

I think a club setting is Ideal. It allows you to be the handler, trainer. But it gives you a network of other experienced handlers and their insights into how to reach your goals. For the most part I know how to handle my dog and get him to where I want.(I have to credit this knowledge to being mentored, and constantly trying to better myself as a trainer) But all to often I find myself seeking others opinions on how I can do this, or how can I do this better.


I feel as long as you are happy with the level of training you have given your dog, that is what matters. Regardless of who,when,where, it was done. Their are tons of book, DVD, and online articles/video you can use to train. The only thing I caution is everything is easy in theory, its the application of those theories that can be tricky.
Good post.

When you say obedience is easier to work on independently do you mean it's easier for you to teach them at home instead of in a class? What books have you read for training?

By saying obedience is easier to work on at home I mean that I have the space and tools at home for obedience. I don't have all the necessary space and tools at home for agility.

It's much easier to work on heeling patterns and long downs in my home or backyard for obedience than it is to try to construct a really good agility sequence with approaches I need to work on. I have some contact tools and weaves and jumps but not enough to construct a course or even pair up pieces for a good sequence/practice run. Tools and resources I use for obedience training are more easily used at home and readily available than the tools and equipment that I need for agility.

Also, I still really benefit from having an outside perspective on what I'm doing when working agility. It's very helpful to me to have an experienced trainer standing near-by on the course with me and telling me 'you angled your shoulders this way and that's why she blew by the table' or yelling at me to back off my approach on the weaves or Fi's going to miss the entry or telling me to move faster or whatever it is.

There's just so much going on during agility training and it moves at such a high rate of speed that I appreciate and learn and grow each time we run with a trainer giving feedback. Well, with my dogs it moves at an incredibly high rate of speed. LOL There are people with syrupy gooey slow dogs who give them all the time in the world to think about what they're doing - not my dogs though! LOL

Anyway, long story short (too late) :), I don't have the benefit of a trainer at home with agility and that's the sport for which I most need and desire that feedback.

Diesel is very distracted by other dogs which is my other problem. I think a class he would loose all focus on me which makes me want to make his training amazing at home before we work on dealing with other dogs.
Fiona was super distracted by other dogs and that was actually my reason for continuing to push her in group training. She needed to mature quite a bit in the head too, but constantly working with her around distractions helped desensitize her to other dogs that she so desperately wanted to engage. It took the fascination, allure, and uniqueness out of being surrounded by other dogs because we were always around various other dogs. It also helped me learn to step up my creative thinking and really work to find what drives Fiona and how to be more interesting than our surroundings.

I think it was really good in helping her learn that sometimes it's fine if she wants to play with other dogs, but sometimes she's can't and she's expected to focus and work and that's okay too. She would throw a fit at first and be a general PITA when not allowed to play but she learned there's a time and place for play and there's a time and place for work, and when we work you aren't allowed to lose your mind just because another dog is around.

It's just what has worked (and continues to work) for us. Every dog is different, every human-dog relationship/bond is different. Every training style is different. You just gotta do what you feel is right for you and your dog.

Books. Oi. LOL I've read LOTS of books! I honestly couldn't give you a list off the top of my head. Some of them I own and have at home, some of them I've borrowed from friends and returned, some of them I've checked out from my training club (we have a pretty good library!). Some of them have been recommended by members here on DT. Right now all my books are still sitting in boxes in my spare room (to be organized this weekend) because I just moved. I'll try to write down some of the titles as I go through them this weekend and come back and post them for you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kwhite30

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,438 Posts
I train at an AKC Dog Training Club. I enjoy going there as it gives me a chance to interact with fellow trainers and also to see various styles of training. I like the distractions as there are a mutiple of avenues always going on. I like being held accountable. You would think as a classroom teacher that I dont need that however I do. I begin at home with all my dogs on the basics as a fun time to bond with them. I read alot of training books and watched DVD's yet I enjoy going to classes as it's a time away from home for my dog and me to work together
 
1 - 20 of 46 Posts
Top