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Go Dog Go
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606 Posts
He is cute - and he certainly looks very focussed.

Would the harness or thicker collar change what's happening to his neck? Maybe the trainer can't see it because of his angle to the dog?
Kate
 

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Vicious Bitch.
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3,079 Posts
Hi, that's awesome. Love to see dobes work. But he would really benefit from an agitation harness or collar. My girl has one from activedogs.com. she also works in IPO, as you can see in my signature.
 

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sadder but wiser girl
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9,688 Posts
I agree... either a much wider collar that can't damage his trachea, or a harness.
 

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Banned
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Re

Thanks for all the advise. I feel telling my trainer what equipment to use for his training is like telling Sidney Crosby what stick he should be using to play hockey. I am sure you all mean well however it is hard to argue against results.
 

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Bad Wolf
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960 Posts
Hi,

My name is Cassie and I too live in Brampton, On. I have a 7 month old bitch who I will be training IPO with. You are not being attacked by the members here. They are lovers of the breed and are trying to guide you. Some have multiple titles under their belts. I would really recommend a harness or agitation collar. The breed has a predisposition for wobblers and I would hate for it to happen to you.

Schutzhund-Training.com - Puppy Tips

This is a great website with another point of why the wide collar or harness is more suitable. I see the puppy straining at the end of the leash focused on the decoy. Good puppy! Now during the next session, what if puppies throat hurts a little? He won't pull nearly as hard. You'll be training him to not go full bore at the decoy, which could be an issue on the long bite if it crosses over.

Just trying to help you and your pup on your path...
 

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Banned
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Maybe we can meet and you can show me your tools and how you use it with your bitch.My trainer has trained over 30 some years with collar had great results and no issues.I sincerely mean no disrespect to you and your training methods. You are welcome to see MAXX being trained. :)
 

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Premium Member
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8,740 Posts
I'm not a working sport person, however, I know plenty of them. We use a 1" thick leather collar for the WAE, but that is a one time test... not weekly training. Anyone I know (and I know several) that trains a Doberman in protection sports, uses either a very thick (say at least 2") agitation collar or an agitation harness... or both. This is a breed with neck issues - and it is not an "American" or "Euro" issue... it IS a Doberman issue. As your puppy gets older, the very real possibility of a neck injury will get greater.

No one is saying boo about your trainer, but really, why would he care if you got good equipment?? Just because he has trained a dog to a high level of protection does not make him infallible - you need to do what is best for your puppy .... and if the word of a trainer is more important than the long term health of your puppy .... then that really is too bad.

Something like this:

Leerburg | Padded Leather Agitation Harness

or this:

agitation collar | eBay

IMHO - you need to put your puppy before your trainer and stop being so star struck by what he has done. Good luck to you
 

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Go Dog Go
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606 Posts
Take a look at your picture in post #3. (I'm not good enough to repost it or make it bigger.)

It was the perspective of this picture that made me wonder if the trainer's angle wasn't the best - from in front or behind you couldn't see how the collar is digging in or how far extended your dog's neck is. If he's working the dog he can't see what's happening from the side.

Maybe think of it this way - a wider collar, or a harness won't hurt him & a harness might even help by giving him a more even 'hold' to strain against.
Kate
 

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We use a 1" thick leather collar for the WAE
Actually, the current regulations do not specify collar width. The leash is to be 6' long and 1" wide... the collar is just a wide, leather, buckle collar. I am pretty sure that the three times I have taken dogs to fail the WAE, the collar has been much wider than 1".
 

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Maybe we can meet and you can show me your tools and how you use it with your bitch.My trainer has trained over 30 some years with collar had great results and no issues.I sincerely mean no disrespect to you and your training methods. You are welcome to see MAXX being trained. :)
Just curious what is the name of this trainer and where does he train from and with?
 

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Premium Member
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8,740 Posts
Actually, the current regulations do not specify collar width. The leash is to be 6' long and 1" wide... the collar is just a wide, leather, buckle collar. I am pretty sure that the three times I have taken dogs to fail the WAE, the collar has been much wider than 1".
For a WAE, the club I am (Quaker City DPC) in does not use a collar that is less than 1", but most of what we use are closer to 2" padded agitation collars. You do have to use a choke chain (and not a thin show one) along with the collar in case a dog backs out of the buckle collar.
 

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Back Off
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Maybe we can meet and you can show me your tools and how you use it with your bitch.My trainer has trained over 30 some years with collar had great results and no issues.I sincerely mean no disrespect to you and your training methods. You are welcome to see MAXX being trained. :)
I'm sorry but a trainer who thinks everything they do is perfect and is not willing to change their ways to adapt to better, safer, and proven methods, is NOT a trainer I would like to train with.

The best trainers I've heard of are continually improving and trying to better their training methods, and many trainers have made drastic changes away from the old popular crank and yank methods to a more positive approach. (Even after being successful on the Schutzhund field for 30 years). No training method is 100% perfect for every dog and if you think that, then I wish you luck in IPO or whatever you are training for.
 

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Holier Than Now
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22,475 Posts
Thanks for all the advise. I feel telling my trainer what equipment to use for his training is like telling Sidney Crosby what stick he should be using to play hockey. I am sure you all mean well however it is hard to argue against results.
Oh, some of the best results out there, well as far as ego-driven-wins, come from trainers who use crap methods--in both horses and dogs.

It's your puppy, not his, right?

It's your money you are paying, correct? I mean, he's not working with you for free, as a favor, right?

Maybe we can meet and you can show me your tools and how you use it with your bitch.My trainer has trained over 30 some years with collar had great results and no issues.I sincerely mean no disrespect to you and your training methods. You are welcome to see MAXX being trained. :)
Let's see the necropsies on those dogs, for 30 years, and see what kind of tracheal and cervical damage they've suffered.

If you're so star-struck, or bumfuzzled, that you see "no issues" where common sense says otherwise...well, vibes for that pup of yours.

Judging by this thread, and MadMaxx's previous DT history, good luck getting a straight response :nicejob:

ETA: The helper is Stanisa Melekovici
Training | Bodyguard K9
Oh well, anyone associated with that group is, as Steve once said, "snot-flinging nuts," so it's a lost cause, more's the pity for that nice lil pup.
 
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