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i'm new to this forum and i have been doing research on breeders because we are looking to get a doberman. we had a dobe for 12 years but she was purchased when we were very young. the only input we had when picking her out was weather we thought she was cute or not. now as an adult i am looking to get another one.we have been researching breeders, health concerns in the breed, ect. i have now become aware of line breeding. what sort of questions and concerns should we have when speaking to a potential breeder about this.i'm not sure that this is the place to post this question, but you'll have to bare with me, as i said, i'm new here.
 

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joie de vivre
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Line breeding, when done with thoughtful consideration, doesn't bother me a bit. Many breeders use line breeding as a way to stamp certain characteristics/traits into their bloodlines. I am cautious of inbreeding though and it's unlikely that I would ever purchase a pup from inbreeding. From what I understand, outcross breedings are not as common as line breedings, so that's probably not something you're likely to encounter as often in your breeder/puppy search. Also, with outcross breedings it's hard to know with any certainty what characteristics may or may not present in the offspring, so there may be less consistency among the litter, or maybe not. Hard to guess accurately with outcrosses. It's generally a little easier to safely assume what you'll get in pups from line breedings.

I think it's a matter of what you're comfortable with personally. Assuming you like the appearance/type of Dobes being bred, since you'll be doubling up on some dogs and relatives with a line breeding I would research the pedigree's health, longevity, temperaments, sport aptitude - whatever is a factor for you - in depth and make my decision based on that information.

Good luck!
 

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great post Brigette.

i must second everything the previous poster said. the thing i would be most cautious of is doubling, tripling etc. of dogs who lived relatively short lives. personally, i cringe at seeing Eddie (Ch Cambria's Cactus Cash) three or so times in a few generations. just research the pedigrees, including the dog they are linebreeding on.
 

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Don't shoot me, but I have always considered 'Line Breeding' and 'Inbreeding' to be one and the same thing.
I know it is relatively common practice to put say a grandfather to his grand-daughter if the line is considered to be a good one but it is not something I like to see in any dogs pedigree. However, this is purely a personal viewpoint.
 

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great post Brigette.

i must second everything the previous poster said. the thing i would be most cautious of is doubling, tripling etc. of dogs who lived relatively short lives. personally, i cringe at seeing Eddie (Ch Cambria's Cactus Cash) three or so times in a few generations. just research the pedigrees, including the dog they are linebreeding on.
It's almost hard not to find Eddie a few times. He shows up 3 times in my current litters pedigree. Nothing wrong with that - he died at age 8 after prostrate surgery.... some people will tell you that he died of greed. If he had been neutered when he started having prostrate problems instead of continually bred and collected.....who knows how long he might have lived! Eddie is still producing from frozen.
 

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It's almost hard not to find Eddie a few times. He shows up 3 times in my current litters pedigree. Nothing wrong with that - he died at age 8 after prostrate surgery.... some people will tell you that he died of greed. If he had been neutered when he started having prostrate problems instead of continually bred and collected.....who knows how long he might have lived! Eddie is still producing from frozen.
personally, and again i won't claim to be an expert since i'm not a breeder, but i think line breeding heavily and strictly on one dog--especially one dog who has pretty much permeated the entire NA Doberman gene pool--is silly, for lack of a better word.

having Eddie, for example since i brought him up, as the grandsire on both sides of a litter's sire's pedigree then again on the dam's side is.. too much. at least for my taste.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
grandfather to granddaughter seems very close to me. the fact that that is "common" in line breeding frightens me.what questions would you ask to make sure they are not inbreeding?
 

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joie de vivre
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grandfather to granddaughter seems very close to me. the fact that that is "common" in line breeding frightens me.what questions would you ask to make sure they are not inbreeding?
A quick look at the breeding pair's pedigrees will tell you whether or not they're inbreeding.

If you have the names of the dogs being bred, pedigrees are easy to find.
 
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we are still researching breeders. so, no confirmation on which dogs are going to be bred. when that happens we'll definitely look into both dogs pedigrees. this is nothing that we ever were aware of until we started speaking with breeders and looking at forums like this one. it's amazing how much information we need to get before we make a decision.
 

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personally, and again i won't claim to be an expert since i'm not a breeder, but i think line breeding heavily and strictly on one dog--especially one dog who has pretty much permeated the entire NA Doberman gene pool--is silly, for lack of a better word.

having Eddie, for example since i brought him up, as the grandsire on both sides of a litter's sire's pedigree then again on the dam's side is.. too much. at least for my taste.
I don't breed to the fad of the year, but Eddie is in my lines and so he shows up in my pedigree. I line bred my litter on a son of Eddies that I loved - not Eddie himself.

So thanks for calling me silly - guess it is good that you are not interested in one of my puppies. There are lots of decisions that go into breeding - I really don't expect someone who has never bred a litter to understand that.

BTW - Eddie shows up 3 times in the 5th generation back - not exactly the grandsire.
 

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I don't breed to the fad of the year, but Eddie is in my lines and so he shows up in my pedigree. I line bred my litter on a son of Eddies that I loved - not Eddie himself.

So thanks for calling me silly - guess it is good that you are not interested in one of my puppies. There are lots of decisions that go into breeding - I really don't expect someone who has never bred a litter to understand that.

BTW - Eddie shows up 3 times in the 5th generation back - not exactly the grandsire.
this exactly, for the most part reputable breeders arent breeding multiple times to certain dogs just because they are popular but because they are the right choice for their program.
I may have my reservations personally to certain amounts of line breeding or how much some dogs show up, but i trust and respect the thought, experience, and personal investment made by reputable breeders when they make the decision to create the dogs and pedigrees they do!
 

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joie de vivre
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this exactly, for the most part reputable breeders arent breeding multiple times to certain dogs just because they are popular but because they are the right choice for their program.
I may have my reservations personally to certain amounts of line breeding or how much some dogs show up, but i trust and respect the thought, experience, and personal investment made by reputable breeders when they make the decision to create the dogs and pedigrees they do!
I think some people forget this. Breeders are breeding for themselves. They make their breeding decisions because they want to produce the type of dog they want. Pet homes, even show homes, are not their concern. They want a pup, or pups, they can keep for themselves and show, who will hopefully contribute to their lines in the future further molding their type how they see fit. Pet homes and show homes aren't hard to find for good breeders - they don't have to do anything to make sure they have homes lined up.

There are some expectations I have as a puppy buyer that I apply across the board - health testing, titling, proper care and ethical treatment of their dogs. If a breeder doesn't meet those points then I wouldn't consider them. But there are a million other factors about breeding a litter that exist in a big gray area for me and I respect the fact that good breeders have their own personal reasons for the choices they make.

If there's a breeding you (general 'you') are interested in but you have questions about something, just ask. It's incredible the things you can learn when you admit what you don't know and you just listen to what they have to say. And if something they say isn't quite what you're looking for, you move on in your search. IME, finding a breeder you see eye-to-eye with is just as big a deal as purchasing a pup from a specific breeding you like and feel comfortable with.

(Sam1491 - I'm not specifically responding to you, just posting in general, but your post spurred my train of thought and it was a good launching off point. :))
 

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couldnt agree more Brw glad I could spark up even more good points!

you don't know, what you never try to find out.....
 

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I don't breed to the fad of the year, but Eddie is in my lines and so he shows up in my pedigree. I line bred my litter on a son of Eddies that I loved - not Eddie himself.

So thanks for calling me silly - guess it is good that you are not interested in one of my puppies. There are lots of decisions that go into breeding - I really don't expect someone who has never bred a litter to understand that.

BTW - Eddie shows up 3 times in the 5th generation back - not exactly the grandsire.
i'm confused, were we not talking about a hypothetical litter? i wasn't talking about yours, and if you decide that you want to line breed on a specific dog, that's your prerogative.

don't take my personal opinion on a the specific topic of line breeding as a personal insult, so i'm not sure what your angle is regarding me not wanting one of your puppies.
 

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Prostate?

Good luck with your search!
Even though Eddie died of complications of prostate surgery there are some serious questions about the owners not having a post mortem done to eliminate speculation about DCM. It's not Eddie so much as DCM coming down through Cryptonite. There has been a lot of DCM in those lines.

I don't think you have to be a breeder to understand that the decisions about breeding choices are very complex. This is particularly so with a breed that has so many health issues to consider.
 

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i'm confused, were we not talking about a hypothetical litter? i wasn't talking about yours, and if you decide that you want to line breed on a specific dog, that's your prerogative.

don't take my personal opinion on a the specific topic of line breeding as a personal insult, so i'm not sure what your angle is regarding me not wanting one of your puppies.
Hello? You quoted me and then called line breeding on one dog silly? Sorry, but I call that personal! And I don't have a hypothetical litter, I have a 7 1/2 week old line bred litter. Sorry if I tend to be get my hackles up when someone appears to directly be calling me silly to do such a litter!
 
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