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RockhillK9
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Discussion Starter #1
I am on the waiting list for a female with a reputable breeder that has a long waiting list. I have asked for one that would be a good show prospect. This would be my 1st venture on the confirmation side. I have been researching other breeders as well and noticed some only sell show puppies under co-ownership contract. How does that work? it the cost the same? does have give them breeding rights, 1st pick if ever bred? Do they split medical costs? I'm not against it, Just curious what to possibly expect.
 

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Got mutt?
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13,604 Posts
Co-ownership contracts can vary wildly, ranging from the breeder being listed as co-owner simply so they can show in Bred By classes to the breeder having control over the dog to the extent that the only thing the co-owner does is live with the dog. If you decide to co-ownership with the breeder, you and they need to sit down and go over each and every item in the contract, and make sure that both of you are comfortable with the terms.
 

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sandy2233
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Personally, I wouldn't own a "co-owned" anything. I think you are just setting yourself up for some issues. Some one always ends up on the short side.
 

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Any puppy that leaves here on full registration does so on a co-ownership. I do not charge more for show puppies, although I do sometimes require a puppy back, if female, or breeding rights, if Male. I do remain on the registration as co-owner. Show puppies are sold on show contracts which basically state the buyer will show the puppy to it's AKC CH title, dog will not be bred until title has been obtained and all health testing has been completed. I retain the right to approve any breeding partners. There is quite a bit more, such as what happens if puppy doesn't grow to be a show puppy, disqualifying faults, etc. But that is the gist. The buyer is responsible for the care, maintenance of the dog, as well as the costs of showing and health testing. All breeders are different and in fact contracts on show puppies are highly individual, depending on the breeding, what the breeder wants from that particular breeding, etc.

Generally, you can expect a well bred puppy with show potential and a mentor to guide you.
 

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Premium Member
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Mostly ditto to Shelian Dobe - I also do not sell show prospects without a co-ownership especially if it is a person new to the ring. You want to find a breeder that you like and click with - and make sure that the contract is something you can live with and fair to both parties. I've seen some contracts that are totally unfair to the owner and expect way too much. Most are negotiable to a point. I've co-owned two Dobermans that I bought from other breeders and never regretted it - the contracts were fair, and I got a lot of support from the breeders.
 

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Super Moderator
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I agree with what both of the breeders have said - you need to read the contract and make sure it's something you can live with, as well as feel comfortable with the breeder as someone you want to have a relationship with for the life of your dog (which I think is even more important, as that will really set the tone for how the contract "lives" in your life). Some pets are now even sold on co-ownership to protect the dogs in the case of life events. Some people are uncomfortable with that and look for breeders that don't do that, some are fine with it. I think you need to decide what you are comfortable with, make sure you are REALLY comfortable with and confident in the breeder, and go from there.
 

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you want details. different breeders use co-ownership for different reasons. let's say you pay 3000 for a dog on co-ownership. If the co-ownership is to make sure and to help the pup on through their championship it will help you out greatly. Now some co-ownership's are settled by them having a pick of a litter of their approving. If the pups are sold at 3000 and you figure ear crops, tails and dewclaws along with all the equipment like bowls, whelping boxes etc. as well as food and lets say it comes up to 1200 a pup. The breeder takes their pick and you sell the remainder of the pups. then basically they were paid 1800 for their time and efforts in helping you. Some would say fair and some would not. but total cost for you now for your original pup is now at 4800 (your initial 3000 plus the other 1800 that didn't go to you for the sale of the pup) Now if the breeder is like some breeders where they want to sell all the pups after you raised them and want to split the profits with you 50/50 Now the cost of that initial pup starts to become expensive, as in lost revenue to you. So all your expense in showing will probably never be recouped from breeder number two. The advantage of breeder number one if you are new to showing can be great. Not only in raising and showing but also in the selection of a suitable breeding partner for your dog. I'm telling you this from personal experience. I have been down both roads with multiple breeders. Breeder number two never works out for your favor. It always works for theirs. More money in their pocket without the work. There is a lot of work in raising a litter. It also isn't cheap to show a pup to their championship. 28 per entry fee and at least 80 per show for handling then expenses are split between the dogs the handler is showing as well as boarding fees. A weekend of three days is going to be around close to 500 dollars. multiply that out for the average dog, and that champion has cost you a pretty penny. It would be nice to recoup some of that money.
 

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RockhillK9
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Discussion Starter #10
Thank you for your feedback. All very interesting. Are newer breeders working on their lines maybe more apt to do option 2? ...just thinking out loud . I completely understand the cost and time to breed and raise a litter. I would never would consider purchasing or working with a breeder that doesn?t health test.
 

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Linda - I see you are in SE Minnesota...I'm a member of the Greater Twin Cities Doberman Pinscher Club. We have a lot of members that are really active in the local show circuit. If you haven't made contact with anyone locally, we have a lot of nice people that would be happy to help you get started in the show world, talk to you about breeders, etc. Feel free to send me a PM about getting involved in the club. We do have members who can't make the meetings up here in the Twin Cities but are still members and still are involved. We have lots of people who show and some good breeders who are club members and are kind people who would probably be more than happy to just chat with you about the local show world.
 

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Thank you for your feedback. All very interesting. Are newer breeders working on their lines maybe more apt to do option 2? ...just thinking out loud . I completely understand the cost and time to breed and raise a litter. I would never would consider purchasing or working with a breeder that doesn?t health test.
the ones who I have run across who do that are more apt to be ones who have been in the breed some time. I got taken pretty good by a person in the GSD German show lines. Make sure you ask to see the results from the health testing. It should not just be them saying that the dogs elbows and hips were x-rayed out at a particular result but they should be able to show you at least a copy of the original. If they seem to get upset because you aren't taking their word, WALK FAST.
 

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Sirai Dobermans
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As many have said, co ownership requirements and contracts will vary from breeder to breeder.

I co own most of my pups. Even the companions. I happen to take great pride in showing my show pups in the Bred By Exhibitor classes. In order to show in the BBE class you must be the breeder of that pup, but you must also be the registered co owner of it.

Any bitch that leaves my property, leaves on a co ownership. At the very least until she's spayed. This is really the only control I have other than a contract in order to ensure that my bloodline doesn't end up in the wrong hands. The AKC requires that ALL owners listed on a bitch must sign off on the registration papers of any puppies that bitch produces.

I've recently had an experience that confirmed I will likely continue co owning my dogs. In my state (TX) dogs are considered nothing more than property in the eyes of the law. I sold a beautiful show prospect to a very lovely family. The dog was primarily under the care of the wife who had big dreams to show him and eventually move on to therapy work and agility. She was diagnosed with an aggressive form of cancer that quickly spread to her brain and she passed away just after that puppy was 7 months old. Her husband suddenly found himself without a wife, the primary care taker of two pre-teen daughters, the sole provider and was struggling not only with a young and active puppy, but with a puppy that very much reminded him of his wife. While I did eventually get that puppy back in agreement with the husband, it was a bit of a struggle. He couldn't adequately care for the dog but wanted him to remain in the family for the girls. He was considering giving him away to some random family member. If I had to, I had a contract I was very much prepared to enforce in addition to being an actual registered owner of the dog.

I think people need to understand that when they're being sold a show prospect, that you're being sold the future of someone's breeding program. That doesn't mean that every breeder will want to breed your dog, but some will. We can only keep so many so we have to allow those puppies to go to other homes. My point is, read your contract. DO NOT SIGN if you do not agree. Approach the breeder with anything you need clarified. I have changed my contract for some who request small changes. It's not that big of a deal. But if you sign it, I absolutely expect that you will uphold your end of the contract.
 
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