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I don't think he will...he isn't much of a forum kinda guy.....He is a brick layer in Illinois and spends most of his time outside...so pictures and info might have to come from me...but I will ask him :)
 

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Best wishes for Summer. It does sound like she will have a good forever home.

My two cents.... I didn't find Mary rude this time either. She doesn't know Frznbuns from Adam, and it is only fair to the dog to ask these questions. Whether they come from a person involved in rescue or not. That was the priority here and now. I do believe in the past things have not always been handled appropriately for the situation (from any member not just Mary), but don't believe this is an instance of such behavior.

My personal opinion. Any time a dog is given up for adoption, I believe they should be spayed or neutered. Just me though. I do understand that Frznbuns is not a rescue, I just feel that way regardless. I am still glad never the less, that Frznbuns took Summer in and cared for her.

I took in an registered Aussie bitch years ago and found a great home for her with a co-worker I knew well who had kids and such, but DID foot the bill and have her altered prior to placement. Even in light of that, if I had another foster, I would expect one of the first questions of this forum to be - are you making sure to alter it prior to placement.
 

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i agree with mary and lexus. i dont care if someone isnt a rescue - if you arent prepared to do rescue RIGHT then dont do it at all. and doing it right, is altering the animal before it is rehomed.
 

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maryanddobes, i am thrilled to have as many people on this forum who are as passionate as you are about dobes. that passion is indicative of great love, but once in a while some of us get a little hot under the collar (yes, I still feel guilty about my recent outburst:( bad me) Please don't leave us - we need all opinions - it makes us all smarter.

yes pollo is neutered, but by the looks of him, he got his bits snipped before he was given to rescue and DAR&E NEVER allows an unaltered dog/bitch be adopted.

mariposa, please don't hesitate to post an opinion. most everyone here has only the best in mind for our doberkids and the breed. some times it can be very difficult to tell the difference between someone being very direct and someone being snarkey when reading an email, but please share how you feel with us. that's what we are all here for!

carrie
 

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Frznbuns,

Can you put our minds all at rest and at least tell us that he will plan to have her fixed. Also that you will follow up with him to make sure this is done ? I know your intentions were good at the time to find a home for this girl but maybe you could work something out with him so that she will for sure be fixed. Better late than never. :)
 

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MaryAndDobes said:
I don't think so.

What you described is rather typical for a responsible rescue organization. You nailed all the things that a responsible rescue does in placing a dog carefully, and I'm quite sure Pollo was neutered too, right?

Well, on April 7, frznbuns posted that they were adopting Summer themselves, but then stated that if it didn't work out for some reason, they'd foster until they found another home.

By April 10, 9 am, Summer is looking for a new home and being advertised as intact. A huge no-no when it comes to rescue.

Less than 24 hours after that, a new home is found and the foster person is only *thinking* about spaying Summer.

I'm stating the obvious. That is not the way that responsible rescue people operate.
I see your points Mary.
 

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Valid points Mary. I think these are all important things to think about and important to talk about out in the open. Also good points by Lexus.

I also agree she should be spayed before placement or at the very least followed up on to make an appointment for a spay. I understand the importance of not letting a rescue be adopted intact.

I haven't been paying that close of attention to the exact details, but if I read the thread right did a Doberman breeder advertise her as intact and then decide to place a rescue Doberman bitch intact with potential adopters before spaying? If so, very strange.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
MaryAndDobes said:
The problem is that too many people have their rose-coloured glasses on and want to believe everything will be fine and want to believe people will do the right thing. Step into a rescue role and you'll soon see that this is rarely true, and the reason why I'm trying to drive home the point that if we take responsibility for "rescuing" a dog, we better make sure we do a complete job. Talking to someone about altering the dog doesn't ensure it is done.

I don't know all the circumstances? Neither do you. We have no reason, NO REASON, to believe that everything is peachy just because it's a fellow person that we talk to here on dobermantalk. In case you've forgotten, we've got albino breeders here for one thing - just because people find their way here doesn't automatically make them great Doberman people that are doing the right thing for the breed or for the individual dogs for that matter.

Once again, I find myself trying to be educational. Trying to let people know how responsible rescue people operate, in this particular case. Once again, I get illustrated as the rude one and it's perfectly fine for someone else to be advertising intact rescue dogs. Once again, I find people here resistant to education. You find me rude? Well, what are you doing for this dog? What are you doing to try to educate in this situation? Personally, I find it rude that you felt it necessary to criticize me when I'm trying to help the dog.
Alright I guess I am going to respond to you, which I really do not want too...
Anyone who know me knows that I care more about my dogs than I do my own life!! I am not just saying that I really mean it!
I just spent over $800 on Raven at the VET! and would do it again and again! Why because I love my dog! I now have to go without my own Meds because of this Vet bill! this last week I took Raven back to the vet for another $80 because I accidently pocked her in the eye while playing. The very next day Gypsy goes to the Vet because she tried to go between our new fence in the yard to get to a restricted side to eat our new grass. Result.. $200 and 5 stitches!!
I just sent a member over $75 worth of dogs shampoos and vitamins because they could not afford it and their dog was having skin and coat problems.. and you think I am not caring!
As for Summer, the ad was in the paper for her less that 1 hour."Free purebred Doberman Pinscher intact needs good home"
I was so upset! that I waited for a decent hour of the morning and called at 8:00am and then every half hour after that until I got ahold of the lady.
She explained the problem of her being sick and her son moving away and that she could not keep the Summer. I told her I would take Summer sight unseen!
I picked her up Friday night!! Slept with her Friday, Saturday and Sunday, and Monday, and Tuesday All the while looking for a home and talking to people about adopting her.
I talked to about 25 people for Saturday thru Monday morning! All were turned down!
I was talking to another couple when Mariposa called me and asked if she was adopted yet. I liked the other couple but the husband was not friendly with our girl Raven.. who is a big baby just wanting to be petted all the time!
I know mariposa and her family! And she knows me very well also. I knew what sort of home they would give Summer! even though the other family wanted Summer (while the wife did)
I told them that to go home and I would think about it! I called mariposa back and then talked to her brother for 3 hours!
I found that he would be a good match and we talked about when he would get her and how to pick her up as we live 7 or more hours away from each other.
We talked about the Vet and her shots and spaying or showing her!
Hubby was off on Wednesday at short notice and we called and left to deliver Summer at 5am to drive 5 hours one way! and he about 4 to meet!
Now he signed a paper that she would be taken to the Vet asap, That I would deliver AKC papers only after I was told if she would be good to Show or she was Spay!

Now I talked to the first owners Vet Finally!! as they are very busy and also had to confirm that I was truly the new owner! Summer had not been to the Vet since she had her ears cropped at 9 weeks!!! And she had not had all her shots! That is the type of owner she came from!
Oh by the way,Maryanddobes, I did call our local Doberman rescue 10 times and never!!! got a call back!!!
I would have loved to keep Summer like I said before But!! I live in a small house in the Middle of town!! 4 dobermans and 2 indoor cats is all I can have!!and that is according to our City!! and don't any one start with "if you live in such a small house then why do you have 4 doberman anyhow!"
That is my business and no one else..
right now there is a 6month AKC doberman at our pound and I have done everything I can not to go and get her or him! Today is its last day and no one has come forward to adopt! How sad! Oh by the way.. I called Doberman rescue again yesterday about this one too and still no return calls!!!!!
Great way to run a rescue! Oh it is in a big city too by the way!!! only 45 miles from me!! Way too go Doberman rescue!!
Now that I have said my piece.. I hope that this is it! I am a good member here and I love this board! I tell all my friends that have Dobermans to join and lots have!!! Oh by the way our vet has a back log of appointment to spay or neuter of 2 to 3 weeks!! Summer had an appointment for the end of the month!! there!
I enjoy being a member and have always felt welcome! but I will leave if I have to, I have left several Doberman forums because of negative posting and bitching from other members! enough said by me!
Oh by the way, Gypsy was not excepting of Summer and it was not fair to Summer! Gypsy is a funny dog some dogs she like others she doesn't! I do not need any dog fights!!
 

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Frznbuns, good for you. Mary didn't mean disrespect (IMO), don't take offence, we don't know you other then from the forum, she was just concerned for the dog.

After hearing all that you did for Summer, I apologize if I sounded harsh, but not knowing all this, you can see our concerns. I hope to hear that Summer is going to be spayed, will you be following up on him to see if he is taking care of it?

Please don't take offense and say "and don't any one start with "if you live in such a small house then why do you have 4 doberman anyhow!"
That is my business and no one else.. "
To my knowledge no one has ever insiuated anything negative toward this situation.

Everything was said for the dog's welfare, not to "pick on you". By posting anything at all on a public forum, we ask for comments and questions. All and all, we love having you here :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I am sorry if I sounded off today..it really upset me!:sadcry: I care so much for my dogs! I just hate when people do not take care of a dog! I was crying the whole time i was posting my responce!! as I am now..Oh yes I do intend to Keep up on what is being done with Summer!!!!! That is the way I am!!
again sorry if I sounded off! again I care deeply about animals and would do anything I could to help one! I keep trying to get on Deal or No Deal.. I am hoping!! I would take the $1,000,000 and start a rescue!!!!!
I hope that everyone understands my feeling as I try to understand where everyone is coming from in their opinions!! Sorry again for sounding off!:emo11:
 

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My hat goes off to you, Frznbuns, You have been around here for a long time and participated plenty for me to get the feeling that you would do the right thing for Summer, the best way you could. Thumbs up in my books.
 

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Frznbuns, and many more people here -- you need to stop making everything about you and consider that this is about the situation and the dogs.

You've brought a whole lot of other stuff into this that doesn't belong. The fact that I have recently had a ton of vet bills on my own dogs has nothing to do with what I do when it comes to rescue. It's separate and it has no bearing.

If one is going to take on fostering and adopting Dobermans out to the public, it should be done in a responsible way, and I'm sorry but adopting them out intact is irresponsible. I'm sure you're a very nice person - this is not an attack on you. It is a comment on something you've done.

Another question on this situation -- was the breeder of the dog ever contacted??? While I realize that many breeders could care less what happens to their dogs after purchase, was there an attempt to find out if this is the case? That is usually the first thing a rescue person does, and while I realize you may not consider yourself a rescue person, you thrust yourself into the role and now it would be a good thing for you to learn how rescue operates, especially since you are loudly criticizing the existing rescue in your area. If you intend to pick up any of their slack, it would be a good idea for you to learn how to deal with rescue situations. You may not like me and I don't really care, but 2 important things are to contact the breeder and to spay/neuter any dogs you "rescue" regardless of whether they would be "good to show" or not.

Now, for criticizing the existing rescue in your area -- have you offered to help them in any way? I'm not saying all rescues are above reproach by any means. The fact that they didn't call back is pretty dismal. However, there may also be good reason. I can certainly speak to the fact that rescue is inundated with calls, every day, every week, every month and yes, sometimes it takes some time to get back to everyone. Keep in mind that rescue is volunteer work. They're not at your beck and call. And rescue does get pretty sick of people who "rescue" a dog and then expect rescue to take it, which is what you did. As a rescue person, I have people calling me to tell me that there is a dog in the pound here, there and everywhere. Sometimes I can help, sometimes I can't. That's life. I want to help, but realistically, sometimes I can't and sometimes the rescue near you can't whether you like it or not. It really does boil down to if you don't like the way rescue in your area is working, either do it yourself, offer to help and make it better or get over it.
 

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TracyJo said:
Totally OT but I love your avatar Dobesanddragons :)
Thanks TracyJo!
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
yes the breeder was the first contact that I did! yes I have donated to the doberman rescue in our area every quarter. and I have sent in information to help them out for the last year. I also donated my time to our local Friends of the Shelter enough said.
 

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I'm sure that Frznbuns wouldn't let the Dobie come to any harm and I'm sure the Dobie is breathing a sigh of relief right now!

Thanks to Frznbuns.
 

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MaryAndDobes said:
while I realize you may not consider yourself a rescue person, you thrust yourself into the role and now it would be a good thing for you to learn how rescue operates, especially since you are loudly criticizing the existing rescue in your area. If you intend to pick up any of their slack, it would be a good idea for you to learn how to deal with rescue situations. You may not like me and I don't really care, but 2 important things are to contact the breeder and to spay/neuter any dogs you "rescue" regardless of whether they would be "good to show" or not.
I agree with Mary 100% about this.
 

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Mary, I think you and I would get on great. Your idea of how rescue is run is exactly how my friend and I run Boxer Rescue :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm: (and we don't just home Boxers). Nothing, but nothing, is homed entire. Every animal is assessed in a home environment and each one is vet checked and chipped before homing. All homes are vetted by ourselves, we NEVER ask someone else to do it for us, their standards may not be as high as ours. After all every dog that comes through our rescue depends on us to get it right. We never give out Kennel Club papers no matter how 'good' a dog is, that dog is still a rescue dog.

I wonder, will Summer's papers get handed over if she turns out to be good enough to show????

And you are right, we are volunteers, I get particularly sick of those who firstly say "I couldn't do your job" which assumes we get paid - wrong.
And secondly "If I won the lottery I would set up a sanctuary for all these poor dogs" Wrong - of course they wouldn't - does anyone know someone who did?
 
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