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Bladerator
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Discussion Starter #1
Blade is 5.5 month old and I think he's starting to become very strong minded. I'm sure that's just his personality and character.
Well I started training with the "Command Collar".. "Yank & Crank" method.
After reading up on it, I quickly ended that CRAP!!
He was only obeying out of fear of a correction..
Now he is so happy and has a very positive drive.
The problem is that now I don't really know a positive way to make corrections, besides putting him in time out, which he HATES!!
Example:: He bits on my shoes, I kneel down to him, show him the shoe and tell him NO... Then lock up for about 5-10 min.
Few minutes later, or later that night, I find him in his favorite spot(bathroom) with the same shoe again!!
Lock up for even longer but the problem still keeps on.
He also likes to sniff the garbage and pull things out if he wants it..

I don't want to hit or yell.. I know there has to be something i'm doing wrong.. Does anyone have any suggestions??

BTW- He does his other commands perfect without breaking or releasing without the ok.. Sit, down, stay, come, turn, off,...
 

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terriorist entertainer
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With a good solid handle on the basics....you have great tools to redirect him to something he can chew on and play with!

Look at it from his child-like non english speaking perspective...he chews on a shoe...it feels good, it smells of you ....you catch him at it, and show him the shoe and then hide it, with all its wonderful tracking scent for him to go find it. ;) ...reward...om nom nom on the shoe (feels so good!) :D

Time to play the switch game...stock up on fun and permissable chew toys! If he's chewing something you don't want him to....just take it off him, make no fuss or even act as if it's important ( a simple, unemotional "no" is sufficient)....then bring out the really important chew toy. offer it to him, let him chew for a while...play hide and seek with it....handle it frequently so it gets that nice smell of you on it. Reward: he gets to chew on it and lots of "good boys" from you.

oh & hide your shoes etc where he absolutely can't get at them until the chew toys become his chew of preference (and he gets through the teething teenager stage). ;)
 

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NewDobieParents - glad to see you back and I remember Blade & you in the posted video w/the yank&crank collar (it takes a big man, to change).
- but you got it through the many DT's that gave you good advice...well done and thanks for listening.

Check out this on puppy biting...I never train with an "ignore" princple, but it can work very well for many.
- my approach, is all supervision (I can't fix what I can't see) and am always direct...with a verbal correction.
http://www.dobermantalk.com/puppy-corner/65452-i-need-help-my-doberman-puppy-play-biting.html

The fact that he is re-chewing shoes...5 minutes after being corrected, tells me your allowing bad habits to go unnoticed (90% supervision, doesn't always work well), and this just makes the pup with house manner's...harder to achieve quickly.

Re. quote:
He was only obeying out of fear of a correction.
Now he is so happy and has a very positive drive.
^^^^ I could tell from your early video, you seemed to give out commands like a drill sergant.
(pls. don't take offense, only trying to help....it was the tone of your voice, that bothered me the most / not condusive for a true desire to please you)
One can always attract more flies with honey...just relax, have fun together and show lots of love.
The perfect dog will come, as you two learn together...learn to read your dog and watch it communicate back to you.
All takes time and looking for perfection should go on the back burner for finding the process that works for Blade and renewing the bond of trust and desire to focus on you.
 

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As far as garbage cans in the past I tried all the standard things hot mustard mice traps etc never worked. So for the 30 yrs I either have a cover on the can with a heavy weight. Now I keep garbage can under counter out of reach.
 

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Part of the problem I see it using the crate as a punishment. To me the crate should be a great place, that is conflict free. With a negative association like that it is no wonder he breaks out of it.

To me these problems are due to a lack of structure, or a lack of the dog knowing what you expect from him.

To answer your question about corrections using positive methods, the answer depends on your training methodology. With a puppy I wont use a physical correction, I will do one of two things. I will withhold whatever it is they want, or I will redirect them to something that is acceptable to(bite,chew,chase, ect..). It easier to teach a dog what to do , than to teach a dog to not do behavior they learned themselves. So in the simplest form, you have to offer something to the dog more fun than chewing on your shoe, or digging in the trash. The biggest thing is to not put the dog in a position to be able to do the things wrong. The more times the dog is able to repeat the behavior the harder the behavior will be to correct.So remove the dog from the situation, or remove the problem from the dog. Don't leave the shoe on the ground where the dog is, put the trash in a room or place he cannot reach. Utilize baby gates, x-pens, a tether, all these things will prevent these things from happening. The crate can also be used, but under the pretense it is a positive place the dog wants to go. When my dog was a puppy, and with every foster I have had, the dog does not enter the crate without some sort of reward being inside for them. I can say crate under my breath and the dogs nearly knock the back out running into it.

If he likes chewing give him something to chew on, a puppy rag(leather, or fleece). Make it a fun game that you control.

If he likes to sniff around, hide treats around the house/yard and let him sniff them out.

The things your dog are doing are things dogs do. You just need to structure them so he does them on your terms. These little exercise will also build behaviors that you want, all the while you will be building a positive relationship with your dog.
 

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Have you been able to find a good trainer who uses positive techniques? I would get in touch with someone who can show you how to give consequences without physical punishment. Check this listing: Search for Professionals for trainers.
 
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Thanks

Part of the problem I see it using the crate as a punishment. To me the crate should be a great place, that is conflict free. With a negative association like that it is no wonder he breaks out of it.

To me these problems are due to a lack of structure, or a lack of the dog knowing what you expect from him.

To answer your question about corrections using positive methods, the answer depends on your training methodology. With a puppy I wont use a physical correction, I will do one of two things. I will withhold whatever it is they want, or I will redirect them to something that is acceptable to(bite,chew,chase, ect..). It easier to teach a dog what to do , than to teach a dog to not do behavior they learned themselves. So in the simplest form, you have to offer something to the dog more fun than chewing on your shoe, or digging in the trash. The biggest thing is to not put the dog in a position to be able to do the things wrong. The more times the dog is able to repeat the behavior the harder the behavior will be to correct.So remove the dog from the situation, or remove the problem from the dog. Don't leave the shoe on the ground where the dog is, put the trash in a room or place he cannot reach. Utilize baby gates, x-pens, a tether, all these things will prevent these things from happening. The crate can also be used, but under the pretense it is a positive place the dog wants to go. When my dog was a puppy, and with every foster I have had, the dog does not enter the crate without some sort of reward being inside for them. I can say crate under my breath and the dogs nearly knock the back out running into it.

If he likes chewing give him something to chew on, a puppy rag(leather, or fleece). Make it a fun game that you control.

If he likes to sniff around, hide treats around the house/yard and let him sniff them out.

The things your dog are doing are things dogs do. You just need to structure them so he does them on your terms. These little exercise will also build behaviors that you want, all the while you will be building a positive relationship with your dog.
Tperkins - I really liked your advice here...especially that "it's easier to teach a dog to do what you want it to do, instead of what you don't want it to do"...
 

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With young dogs especially, I try to minimize the things he can get into--that means shoes go in the closet, clothes in the hamper, throw rugs off the floor, trash cans have a lid and are out of sight if possible, no food is on the countertops or tables, etc.--and most importantly, puppy is in the room with me and is being watched!

I figure that way he can't start to form any bad habits. As he grows older, you may be able to bring out some of your *valuables* and let him know what is forbidden and what is allowable, and he will have the maturity to actually be able to overcome the impulse to explore new things by shaking and chewing them up. (Of course, with dobes, maturity may come v-e-r-y slowly!)

I used to do that when my kids were little too--if there is something breakable on the table, rather than spend my time saying "No, don't touch!", I'd just put it up out of sight. Life is too short to be saying NO! all the time.
 

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Bladerator
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Discussion Starter #9
Wow.. Great advice everyone!!
It does make sense to just put my things away and out of his reach.
I will work on showing him what is ok to play with, and use that as
a positive way of correcting..
He LOVES tug of war... He could do it all day if I had the strength.. lol

I feel 100% better about this situation.
Thanks again!!!
Updates + more pics will be coming soon! :D
 

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Only thing I want to add is that you can teach him to bring you the shoe or things when he finds them. Trade him a yummy treat or other toy as stated. I taught Kyrah to bring me things. Then she was so cute when we were eating she would go and find things to bring to us. She wanted to trade. She still does it but not as often. I would prefer her to bring things and me happily take them than her chew things up that could harm her.

I was teaching her to throw things in the garbage. I used empty toilet paper rolls. Now anytime I change the roll and she sees she insists I give her the empty roll so she can take it in the front to throw in the garbage. She thinks she gets a treat for that...which I have now started giving sometimes and sometimes not.

Hubby and I play a game with her bringing things back and forth between us. When he is in the kitchen and I in the living room. He or I get anything a kitchen rag/toy/ball/empty paper towel roll and say "bring to momma" or "bring to daddy." She gets so excited running back and forth. (yes, hubby's in the kitchen...he cooks way better than me)
 

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Better to put the shoes up, trade him a shoe for a Kong with peanut butter in it, use the crate for good not time outs not really sure a dog has a sense of time,Example: when you leave no matter if it is 5 minutes or all day a dog greets you the same.Good Luck with your pup glad to hear you have given up on the crank & yank not a good way to train. Have you looked up NILF dog training Nothing in Life is Free it is good way as long as you do not go over board with it.Read where some one gave there dog a whole meal one piece of kibble at a time that is over board. Common Sense is the best way to train if it feels right it is usually good if it feels wrong it usually is.Good Luck training ask you vet,a groomer. Look for a dog class you can go to together once a week they will train you to train your dog usually you will get home work to do during the week the classes are about 6-8 weeks long those are the good way to train your dog.Leaving your pup some where is not a good way to train your dog.
 

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I took a much different approach with my current puppy then those kiddos I have had in the past and I actually think she has the BEST "mine/yours" discrimination of any of my dogs. What I did that was different was I told her what was appropriate to chew on versus scolding her for chewing on the wrong thing.

One game that we played was I would lay a bunch of objects out on the floor. Her toys and my stuff. If she showed interest in one of her toys I would click and giver her a treat or play a game of fetch or tug with the toy she picked. If she mouthed one of my objects I would ask her to bring it to me, at which point I gave her a treat or appropriate toy and a game. (I did this because I wanted to encourage retrieving my stuff as I hoped she would be a service dog, someday).

Today, at almost a year of age, she has never been kenneled and has always had free range in my house, has never chewed up or stolen something she was supposed to, and is terribly respectful of my things. If I drop anything, she brings it right to me. in fact a few days ago I had dropped my car keys and couldnt find them in my purse. then she walked up and dropped them right in my hand. I laughed so hard.

Obviously, you may not want to encourage the retrieve part. What you could do, is ask your puppy to give you the "naughty object" and then when he does, reward him with a super fun game of tug with an appropriate toy. Soon he will learn that your stuff is boring and his stuff means all sorts of fun. Just keep a rope toy or other fun toy in your back pocket, at all times, that way you are always ready to find your pup with your shoe. lol

Another thing is, at your pups age, 30 sec to a min of you actively ignoring him (so turn your back and dont acknowledge him at all) will probably suffice as enough of a "time out". or you could act really offended and leave the room for like 30 sec.

I also agree that trying to keep anything you dont want chewed up, or dangerous (like the trash) kept somewhere that he cant get at it. I always tell my husband, if you leave it out, it must be OK for the dog to ruin it.

Thats my two cents- I really think dogs respond better to being taught appropriate behavior instead of only telling them no. If you think of it this way. What if every time you went to sit in your favorite chair with your favorite book, someone yelled at you in a strange language? You probably know that they are upset, but why? on the flip side, if every time you sat on the couch you were praised, it would be much more clear that you were supposed to sit on the couch.
 
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