Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
At the risk of embarassing myself (and Rowan ;)) I am hoping some of you can give me some advice and feedback. I am hoping to enter Rowan in a UKC show in a few weeks to practice my handling skills as well as getting him some more ring experience.

He is not quite 17 months and his handler and some of other show people I've met have suggested giving him some more time to mature before trying the AKC ring again...so hopefully he will still turn out, but any advice or feedback is appreciated. I am a novice to showing and am too nervous to try AKC but I think I can get enough courage to give UKC a try. Any critique on his strenghts/weaknesses and how to maximize or minimize would be nice too...just try to go easy on me!

Here are a few pics from today, sorry not the greatest :/







 

·
Storm's Mom
Joined
·
118 Posts
Two things I can comment on, his hind legs need to be parallel from the ground, so they need to be back just a little bit further and his front legs need to be directly under his shoulder. Other than that, I think you will do awesome! UKC is very fun and you never know, you might get a chance at that BIS ribbon! It's a great place to learn and have people help you. Judges comment often too and don't have any problems stopping for a moment to explain what you could do better to improve your handling skills. Good luck, he is a GORGEOUS red boy! I'm a sucker for the reds ^_^ Please let us know how you do!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you. Yes, I think I need to keep practicing in front of a mirror. Looking at the pics it is so much easier to see the problems.

Should he be sort of leaning forward? I feel like I can get him so that his hocks are perpendicular and the front feet are right under him and then he shifts his weight and throws everything off. :/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Over 100 views and only one comment...I hope that's not a really bad sign :/

I tried again and I think I improved on the front a little, back legs are too far apart I think now...will keep working on it.



Better at all?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
205 Posts
Wow! Beautiful Boy. I know nothing about confirmation but my niece does.
I will have her take a look. Best of luck. I think he looks great.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
I'm sure Illinois must have several good training places for conformation. I've found this class to be a tremendous help to me. And it will help you to calm your nerves before a show because usually in this type of class, they simulate what is going on in a ring as well as you receiving personal critiques from the trainer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I'm sure Illinois must have several good training places for conformation. I've found this class to be a tremendous help to me. And it will help you to calm your nerves before a show because usually in this type of class, they simulate what is going on in a ring as well as you receiving personal critiques from the trainer.
Yes, we have gone to a few classes, but the one we usually go to seems to focus more on moving the dog than perfecting the stack. The doberman people I know have a class sometimes, but haven't lately with the busy show season. I just figured posting on here might be another way to get some help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Wow! Beautiful Boy. I know nothing about confirmation but my niece does.
I will have her take a look. Best of luck. I think he looks great.
Thank you. I appreciate all the help I can get.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
  • Like
Reactions: sam&macksmom

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,944 Posts
Im not an expert, but I'll give it a go if thats ok with you and then someone can correct anything I get wrong :) Im also on my phone so cant see the pics great.

Hes a nice boy; good head and neck, looks a little lippy but difficult to see in the pics for sure. Nice topline and tailset, good legs and feet and nice rear angulation. I think he is short in the shoulder at the front, which is why you cant see a lot of fore chest. Also his elbows dont look very tight to the brisket but that could be the way hes stacked.

For your stacking he should be standing square, so his front legs need to be straight below his shoulder and behind his hocks should be parallel to the ground. The best stack is the last one, though I agree though his legs are way too far apart and his front a little too close together, the front should be about a hands width in-between. Make sure you place the legs so that his paws and hocks are facing straight forward not outward or inwards, twisting them a little if you need to when you place him.

You do want him to lean forward into it, you can train him to lean forward by putting your hand out in front of him with treats in, or by throwing some treats onto the floor in front and making him stare at it. I let my boy lick and chew on the food a little, then make him lean forward and stare at it for a few seconds until I say 'YES' and let him have it and make a fuss. Gradually I lengthen the time before saying 'YES'.

When you're stacking you're aiming so you can only see one front leg and one back leg.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
10,165 Posts
What a dog looks like moving is at least as important as what they look like stacked and novice dogs with novice handler often can get to looking remarkably awful moving so if you know of conformation classes where they put some emphasis on the dog who has another dog behind him and the handlers ability to move the dog at an appropriate speed (for that dog) and to control how the dog looks moving I'd sure be taking advantage of that.

Other than that and what other posters have said--the first couple of pictures he was pulling back and and that makes a front look less than well angulated and tends to also make the rear look overangulated.

In the last picture his is set too far apart in the rear and it straightens his stifle angulation. Use the mirror more unless you can have someone take videos of you stacking the dog. You also really want to learn to stack a dog quickly and the biggest mistake that most novice handlers make is to fuss over the dog so much the dog starts to resist and the whole process becomes no fun for the dog.

Also many people miss the point of using a mirror--at least one of the reasons is that you can look and see when the dog is correctly stacked and looks alert--when you get to that point then LOOK DOWN at the dog--memorize what he looks like from where you are standing to stack him. You won't have that mirror in the ring so you want be able to "know" from looking down at him when he looks right.

Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Im not an expert, but I'll give it a go if thats ok with you and then someone can correct anything I get wrong :) Im also on my phone so cant see the pics great.

Hes a nice boy; good head and neck, looks a little lippy but difficult to see in the pics for sure. Nice topline and tailset, good legs and feet and nice rear angulation. I think he is short in the shoulder at the front, which is why you cant see a lot of fore chest. Also his elbows dont look very tight to the brisket but that could be the way hes stacked.

For your stacking he should be standing square, so his front legs need to be straight below his shoulder and behind his hocks should be parallel to the ground. The best stack is the last one, though I agree though his legs are way too far apart and his front a little too close together, the front should be about a hands width in-between. Make sure you place the legs so that his paws and hocks are facing straight forward not outward or inwards, twisting them a little if you need to when you place him.

You do want him to lean forward into it, you can train him to lean forward by putting your hand out in front of him with treats in, or by throwing some treats onto the floor in front and making him stare at it. I let my boy lick and chew on the food a little, then make him lean forward and stare at it for a few seconds until I say 'YES' and let him have it and make a fuss. Gradually I lengthen the time before saying 'YES'.

When you're stacking you're aiming so you can only see one front leg and one back leg.
Thank you very much! This is exactly what I was hoping for. He is definitely a bit lippy, but I don't really know about the shoulders or elbows (my eye is still not very good at this, still learning). He did grow very tall very fast, so he is still somewhat narrow in the chest and we are waiting/hoping he will fill out a bit more--I think that would help his front, right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
What a dog looks like moving is at least as important as what they look like stacked and novice dogs with novice handler often can get to looking remarkably awful moving so if you know of conformation classes where they put some emphasis on the dog who has another dog behind him and the handlers ability to move the dog at an appropriate speed (for that dog) and to control how the dog looks moving I'd sure be taking advantage of that.

Other than that and what other posters have said--the first couple of pictures he was pulling back and and that makes a front look less than well angulated and tends to also make the rear look overangulated.

In the last picture his is set too far apart in the rear and it straightens his stifle angulation. Use the mirror more unless you can have someone take videos of you stacking the dog. You also really want to learn to stack a dog quickly and the biggest mistake that most novice handlers make is to fuss over the dog so much the dog starts to resist and the whole process becomes no fun for the dog.

Also many people miss the point of using a mirror--at least one of the reasons is that you can look and see when the dog is correctly stacked and looks alert--when you get to that point then LOOK DOWN at the dog--memorize what he looks like from where you are standing to stack him. You won't have that mirror in the ring so you want be able to "know" from looking down at him when he looks right.

Good luck.
Thank you! Yes, the class we go to most is actually AT the venue where this UKC show is going to be, so I think that will be good for both of us. Also, the instructor is a previous handler and judge, he focuses a lot on moving and we seem to be doing pretty well with that.

I have been practicing in the mirror, but I think your point is important about memorizing how he looks because I'm trying to get to the place of being able to stack him the same WITHOUT the mirror. Using the mirror, then coming away from the mirror and taking pics is helping me see where I am still needing improvement.

And yeah, I don't want to overdo it because right now he is still excited when the show lead comes out and I don't want to ruin that! These are really great tips and pointers, and helping me learn more about my dog and conformation as well as handling, so THANKS AGAIN!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,735 Posts
Ditto to everything Bug said - Practice practice practice - and try different handling classes if you can find them - each class is a little different.

He is a young boy - so keep it fun. UKC shows are a great way to get in the ring with him and get some real experience for both of you. Again - don't stress and keep it fun for him. I always talk to my dogs a lot in the ring in a happy voice..... don't care what anyone thinks :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ditto to everything Bug said - Practice practice practice - and try different handling classes if you can find them - each class is a little different.

He is a young boy - so keep it fun. UKC shows are a great way to get in the ring with him and get some real experience for both of you. Again - don't stress and keep it fun for him. I always talk to my dogs a lot in the ring in a happy voice..... don't care what anyone thinks :)
Ha ha ok, thanks!! I think after this first show I might be a little more at ease, knowing what to expect and just having one under my belt.
 

·
Vicious Bitch.
Joined
·
3,079 Posts
No real critique - but he is very handsome and good luck! :) this thread has taught me how to stack my girl. :) you two will rock that show!
 

·
Owned by Dobes since 1975
Joined
·
30,675 Posts
watching pro handlers in the ring is a great way to learn.

maybe buy a couple of 'taped' dog shows like the DPCA annual specialties and watch them over and over and over. :)

and, just because one way of handling might work with one or more dogs, sometimes certain dogs need to be handled differently.

such as, when a dog likes to rack/post, maybe handling/baiting the dog from in front may help him 'come forward' in a stack. Free baiting and stacking works well with some dogs too.

in the first photo, your stack is good, all you needed to do was bait him forward.............hard to explain..........watch how pro handlers position the show chain, do they pull up, back or forward................watch how and where they hold the bait to get a dog to lean ahead..............etc.

but as said, KEEP IT FUN!

Hugz to Rowan!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
No real critique - but he is very handsome and good luck! :) this thread has taught me how to stack my girl. :) you two will rock that show!
Thanks! Still a lot to learn, but practice makes perfect, right? ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sinister

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,273 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
watching pro handlers in the ring is a great way to learn.

maybe buy a couple of 'taped' dog shows like the DPCA annual specialties and watch them over and over and over. :)

and, just because one way of handling might work with one or more dogs, sometimes certain dogs need to be handled differently.

such as, when a dog likes to rack/post, maybe handling/baiting the dog from in front may help him 'come forward' in a stack. Free baiting and stacking works well with some dogs too.

but as said, KEEP IT FUN!

Hugz to Rowan!
Thank you! I actually went up to the show in Dekalb yesterday for the dobe judging :)

It is a lot to take in all at once, but I think we will learn by doing. I appreciate getting the feedback from people though so I can improve instead of just repeating the same mistakes and getting into a pattern of doing something wrong.

Is "rack/post" what he is doing? How he is shifting his weight back instead of leaning more toward the front? And this may be a dumb question, but does that have anything to do with the fact that he seems to be more developed in the rear than front?
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top