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carpe noctem
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello. I've come here a lot over the past few months researching feedback on breeders and lines, etc. Finally thought maybe I should join.

My names Trilby and I'm looking for my fourth working dog. I've not yet had a doberman, but am familiar with the breed by association - when I was small family friends had one named Idmi. She was so gentle and motherly to my sister and I that my family has had an affection for the breed ever since.

I have had German Shepherds. My oldest is eleven, and I just lost my beloved male (who was eight years young) to cancer this past august. Last month I added his portrait to my arm. I also have a 7yr golden retriever who thinks he's a german shepherd... as do my rescue cats come to think of it - all would bark if they could.

It has taken me many months to get my head above the loss of my male, the tattoo helped the most. It's now time to start looking for and training my next working dog, so that when my golden is ready to retired my new addition will be ready to step up.

I'm searching working line male shepherds and also same for dobermans. If anyone has any suggested kennels and would be willing to PM me I'd be grateful for the tips. As I am new to the breed I'm not as familiar with dobie lines. Of course I will be asking on the forum too.

I have a few Qs to ask that my trainer (who grew up with dobies herself) has aired to me in caution. Something about aggression in the breed, she's seen a lot of mentally unstable dobies come through her classes, etc. in the past couple decades. She wants me to stay with the GSD because of it. I'd like to know all of your thoughts.

*waves to everyone* looking forward to learning as much as possible. I research things far too much before jumping in.
 

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Got mutt?
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I would say that unstable Dobes most likely come from BYBs and puppy mills, same as unstable dogs of any other breed or "designer" mix. A good breeder will consider temperament when selecting breeding stock. A lousy breed won't care.
 

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Quality breed dobes have excellent temperment and balanced with smart brains, to match.
- early socialization and training, sets the stage...for what one ends up with, in picking a puppy
Dobe failure, is part BYB selection &/or related to lazy owner or human error (improper methods or lack of teaching).
 

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Hairy Dog, RIP Caesar, Katana, Kip, Capri
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I'm a little unclear about how many dogs you have and what sex they are. The reason I ask is that dobes are known for same sex aggression--male dobes may not get along with other male dogs and likewise, though it is not as common, females may not get along with female dogs.

Not every dobe shows this kind of aggression, but it can show up unexpectedly and make it very difficult to keep the two male dogs together in your household without a crate and rotate sort of routine.

The way to circumvent this problem is for you to get a dobe of the opposite sex to whatever other dog you may have.

I hope you can find what you need in a dobe--you should get plenty of suggestions here. Welcome to DT.
 

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carpe noctem
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64 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
..Rosemary & Beaumont67, Hello. It's nice to meet you both. I agree on what you both said on the side of if the dog comes from a BYB the chances of it having a super life are less then coming from a decent breeder. I also agree that even a well bred dog can get massively mucked up all by owner error. My trainer is a professional, has experience in all aspects of training from Schutz (has her own club) worked in Service Dog work, wolves, etc. She isn't talking about BYB's. She's talking about dogs from really good kennels and really good lines based on her own experiences (she loves the breed and gave up on them herself "as the new lines weren't like the old lines" - or words to that effect) as well as clients who have brought well-bred dobies to her for help with aggression. Turned out to be mental insatiable rather then a learned behavior. No litter is going to be perfect and there are genetic flaws in the best, she's just talking about seeing far more duds then stars lately. I'm hoping to find that the breed isn't getting burned out as I really would love to add one to my family. Looking forward to reading more personal stories here about decent dogs.


melbrod, Ah. Good to know. With shepherds its the opposite. Less chance for two females to get a long then two males, you really want only one female shepherd in the house. My 11yr old shepherd is female and a diva female so I was leaning towards a male dobie (or shepherd which ever I end up with). My golden is also not a push-over male. I want to be careful not to add another dominant addition to the home. Good info to have I'll ask my trainer about it too.

Amelia_, Thanks. You're in England? I used to live just above London (Brookmans Park) before I came to the states.
 

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Hello from CA.

**Disclaimer** My comments below are of my observations and are in no way supposed to be all encompassing. Obviously there are variations and each dog is different.

Just like with GSDs, there seems to be three different "types" of Doberman.

The North American Doberman tends to be more showy and tamer of temperament. They have had most of the drive bred out of them. Some have lots of energy though, just not a lot of drive and temperament for work.

The Euro show Doberman (like the Euro show GSD) usually has a fairly environmentally stable temperament but has large variations in workability. I have seen a few Fedor del Nasi offspring and they all tend to be mushy and not good for work. I have seen a number of F'Hiram Abif Royal Bell progeny and they all seem to be able to make at least club level dogs with most being higher level. These dogs tend to be large, clunky dogs with variations of athleticism.

The Euro working line Doberman tends to be smaller of build. They tend to be sharper, more suspicious. What I would *think* to be more of what they were originally like in temperament. Some are very environmentally stable, others not as much.

So, really you have to just go and see some dogs and meet some Doberman people. It is hard to have Dobermans in sport sometimes. Not everyone is accepting and not everyone is friendly, but if you have any experience in IPO you should know that by now. :)

Where are you located and what is your time frame? There aren’t a huge number of litters with working capabilities born each year (unlike GSDs), so planning out may be necessary.
 

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Please listen to everyone here, they are a wealth of information. Our last boy was from a BYB and was sold to a family with 6 small children. I don't think any breeder worth they salt would have sold a dobe to a family like this. They locked him in a bedroom for most of his short life. At 4 months old we adopted him. He was so fearful and not socialized. We had to let him go last month at 17 months old. He became so aggressive. At the end he was aggressive with us. He had something wrong and a switch would flip (almost like a seizure) and turned on us several times. It broke our hearts to put down a physically health dog. Please, please do your research. Don't suffer the heartache we and others on DT have endured.
 

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Sirai Dobermans
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..My golden is also not a push-over male. I want to be careful not to add another dominant addition to the home.
Welcome to DT! I'm glad you're doing some research.

I wanted to caution you on what you said above. With Dobermans and male-male aggression, choosing a puppy that isn't "dominant" is not necessarily the answer. For most people this is a risky chance to take and that's why you'll see countless threads and advice against adding a second male to your home. Because sometimes that non-dominant puppy is very different as a full grown adult.

I have successfully kept a two intact males together and so have a few others on this board. I think some of it was experience in choosing personalities that would mix well with the others and simply age, but I KNOW some of it was just plain luck. The thing is that its not really something you can train out of the dog--and you always have to be on your toes anticipating something will happen. Currently I've got one male and 2 females. It's a lot easier!
 
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carpe noctem
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hello Erynn, Funny how you should have replied to me here, I found your kennel googling 'old line Dobie'. What are the odds? :) Thanks again for all the tips, etc.

Darkevs, thx for the warm welcome. I can tell. :) This is a popular place!

madmony, I can feel how much you loved him, he was lucky to have you. I'm sorry for your loss. May I ask what his name was?

Dobiewankanobi, First I love your handle. lol.A good friend of mine used to call me 'obiwan' growing up. I really like the dobie add-in. Clever.
My dogs are heavily socialized to all things for the job they will do as adults, I need them to be bombproof. I am also being very, very picky of what dogs I choose and passing the info through my trainer and other working teams for final advice. I have had to retire dogs to health issues and others. When I bring home an animal it becomes family, I call them my furkids. I'm not the type to return or ditch, we make adjustments and make it work. I try my best to avoid any problems, but sometimes, or most times in my case it doesn't work. It's why I'm being so picky and educating myself as much as possible before choosing this breed. I must admit though this forum is a diamond of a find for those of us wanting to learn.
I want to retract the 'dominant' statement I made earlier as it's not really accurate, and change it to that they are both very 'confident'. Confidence (next to health) is what I am looking for in my next dog, be it shepherd or doberman. They are both confident, but also level headed. I need that with the work they do for me. Dominant wouldn't let my cats become discount muzzles or winter beanies… (pictures below)

My girl Duchovny asleep with one of my cats Moroi (you would think he wasn't comfy):


My male Krycek ('03-'11) with my cat Dhampir and again with Moroi:


My Golden Snitch with Dhampir:


And here is my fav picture of my trio (2yrs ago):
 

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#1 Stunner
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Welcome to DT. As another poster said, listen to what more experienced members have to say, they are an unbelievably diverse and extensive source of information. I've never seen a breed forum quite on par with this one. Sounds like you're pretty knowledgeable of working dogs, probably more so than I am, so I won't offer advice beyond that, but welcome to DT and good luck in your search. :) You have a lovely set of dogs, the one in the middle is particularly striking. My fiance is involved with GSDs, they are just amazing.

Madmony, I just wanted to say that I'm so sorry for your loss. We had to make the exact same decision for the exact same reason for our GSD several months ago. Heartbreaking is an understatement, and if you ever need an ear, please feel free to PM me. I understand all too well.
 

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Hello Erynn, Funny how you should have replied to me here, I found your kennel googling 'old line Dobie'. What are the odds? :) Thanks again for all the tips, etc.

Darkevs, thx for the warm welcome. I can tell. :) This is a popular place!

madmony, I can feel how much you loved him, he was lucky to have you. I'm sorry for your loss. May I ask what his name was?

Dobiewankanobi, First I love your handle. lol.A good friend of mine used to call me 'obiwan' growing up. I really like the dobie add-in. Clever.
My dogs are heavily socialized to all things for the job they will do as adults, I need them to be bombproof. I am also being very, very picky of what dogs I choose and passing the info through my trainer and other working teams for final advice. I have had to retire dogs to health issues and others. When I bring home an animal it becomes family, I call them my furkids. I'm not the type to return or ditch, we make adjustments and make it work. I try my best to avoid any problems, but sometimes, or most times in my case it doesn't work. It's why I'm being so picky and educating myself as much as possible before choosing this breed. I must admit though this forum is a diamond of a find for those of us wanting to learn.
I want to retract the 'dominant' statement I made earlier as it's not really accurate, and change it to that they are both very 'confident'. Confidence (next to health) is what I am looking for in my next dog, be it shepherd or doberman. They are both confident, but also level headed. I need that with the work they do for me. Dominant wouldn't let my cats become discount muzzles or winter beanies… (pictures below)

My girl Duchovny asleep with one of my cats Moroi (you would think he wasn't comfy):


My male Krycek ('03-'11) with my cat Dhampir and again with Moroi:


My Golden Snitch with Dhampir:


And here is my fav picture of my trio (2yrs ago):
Lol, I didn't put two and two together until now. Nice to see you here and I wish you success in finding the right companion!
 

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carpe noctem
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64 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Erynn, Thank you. :)

Thanks for the kind comments on my dogs and my bushes.

This may just end up being one of the few places I post on here. lol Every question I have had I ran a search first, only to come up with pages of research already answering my Q's. This is a lovely place! Just as good as the GSD main forum only they don't keep as much invaluable post/thread history as here, which is a shame. Definitely learning a lot.
 
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