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OK I have a stupid question.... I am also someone who prefers a shorter crop - not a show crop. Now it's my understanding that Dobes are not truly judged on their ear length so really if the ears are a little bit shorter in the show ring are they going to be penalized on the length? I have seen dogs in the show ring with the same length as my dogs ears which is not a show crop and placed if not won. Heck some natural eared dobes are wining. I have also seen some crops that look terrible who place.
 

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Sea Hag
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OK I have a stupid question.... I am also someone who prefers a shorter crop - not a show crop. Now it's my understanding that Dobes are not truly judged on their ear length so really if the ears are a little bit shorter in the show ring are they going to be penalized on the length? I have seen dogs in the show ring with the same length as my dogs ears which is not a show crop and placed if not won. Heck some natural eared dobes are wining. I have also seen some crops that look terrible who place.
The problem with using terms like "short" or "long" crops is it's all relative, and can change with the times. What *used* to be considered a long show crop would be considered medium-short show crop now.

Razzle's ears aren't anywhere near as long as many dogs with the long show crops of today. She doesn't have pit bull ears, doesn't have a pet crop-but they're not very long for a show dog in this day and age. She finished pretty quickly, with 4 majors.

I think the big thing is are the ears long enough to compliment their head, rather than detract from it. VERY few dogs have a head good enough for a really short crop- longer ears can mask/minimize a lot.
 

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...there are darn few supposedly reputable breeders that I will vehemently warn people away from... Eileen Holtz is one of them...anyone who knows me KNOWS that I would not normally say this...I really feel that strongly.
I apologize for "resuscitating" a dead thread, but just in case anyone thought velmadobe was posting out of personal spite:

From 1990: http://articles.mcall.com/1990-11-12/news/2771308_1_training-dogs-four-dogs-american-kennel-club

05/28/06 Two weeks ago, I got an URGENT e-mail from Melanie, one of our weekend playdate foster Moms, who told me about a backyard breeder, Eileen Holtz, who has recently relocated from Allentown PA to Newark, DE and was about to put down three healthy 10 week old Doberman pups because they were born deaf.
Excerpted from: Kila is Deaf/ADOPTED!!'s Web Page
 

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The problem with using terms like "short" or "long" crops is it's all relative, and can change with the times. What *used* to be considered a long show crop would be considered medium-short show crop now.

Razzle's ears aren't anywhere near as long as many dogs with the long show crops of today. She doesn't have pit bull ears, doesn't have a pet crop-but they're not very long for a show dog in this day and age. She finished pretty quickly, with 4 majors.

I think the big thing is are the ears long enough to compliment their head, rather than detract from it. VERY few dogs have a head good enough for a really short crop- longer ears can mask/minimize a lot.
Razzle is such a beauty ....!!!!
 

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There are alot of "pet people" who are pushed to BYB's. I contacted a few locak breeders back when I wanted Emma. I was snotted off so bad I went to a pet store. I wouldnt trade Emma's 4 1/2 years on earth for anything, however had I stuck it out and contacted a few more breeders I might have been saved the heart break of loosing my heart dog after a short 4 1/2 years.

So please, if you are turned away by some breeders, please, please stick it out. There are nice breeders out there, and there are snots.
 

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Sea Hag
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I apologize for "resuscitating" a dead thread, but just in case anyone thought velmadobe was posting out of personal spite:

From 1990: Lower Macungie Neighbors Sue `Kennel' Owner - Morning Call

05/28/06 Two weeks ago, I got an URGENT e-mail from Melanie, one of our weekend playdate foster Moms, who told me about a backyard breeder, Eileen Holtz, who has recently relocated from Allentown PA to Newark, DE and was about to put down three healthy 10 week old Doberman pups because they were born deaf.
Excerpted from: Kila is Deaf/ADOPTED!!'s Web Page
This is the same "breeder" who had the 12 dogs seized who are going to DVDPA this weekend.
 

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I was actually about to ask a similar question. I, too, prefer something shorter than today's show crop.
My question is, is it rude to ask my breeder if she will allow my pup's ears to be cropped shorter than the other pups? I love medium lenth ears, but I certainly don't want to offend my breeder.
With that being said, ear length will never be a deal breaker for me- I am only truly concerned with health and temperament. I just wanted to know your opinions on the subject.
Thank you.



OK I have a stupid question.... I am also someone who prefers a shorter crop - not a show crop. Now it's my understanding that Dobes are not truly judged on their ear length so really if the ears are a little bit shorter in the show ring are they going to be penalized on the length? I have seen dogs in the show ring with the same length as my dogs ears which is not a show crop and placed if not won. Heck some natural eared dobes are wining. I have also seen some crops that look terrible who place.
 

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There are alot of "pet people" who are pushed to BYB's. I contacted a few locak breeders back when I wanted Emma. I was snotted off so bad I went to a pet store. I wouldnt trade Emma's 4 1/2 years on earth for anything, however had I stuck it out and contacted a few more breeders I might have been saved the heart break of loosing my heart dog after a short 4 1/2 years.

So please, if you are turned away by some breeders, please, please stick it out. There are nice breeders out there, and there are snots.
Another lifetime ago I was snotted out hard by a Tx borzoi breeder whose rehome ad I'd responded to in the paper. I was *very* tweaked by her...but luckily the next was super sweet. (I'd love a dog from him period-nicest man ever)
Fast forward into the next lifetime I recontact the super sweet breeder & get to hear what a nutter the lady devolved into, BAD STUFF.

So my point is getting snotted out, as awful as it is, can save you from dealing w/a jerk or perhaps out of your margins.
My view is if they're good they will want to keep in contact & do you really want to talk to a snot box for years?

About 4 weeks later by chance I ran into my 1st doberman...at the pound, no snots there but he was $pendy (tho worth every second).
 

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So my point is getting snotted out, as awful as it is, can save you from dealing w/a jerk or perhaps out of your margins.
My view is if they're good they will want to keep in contact & do you really want to talk to a snot box for years?
This is a great point!! A Dobe breeder I admire told me once that "You are not just buying a dog, you are buying a breeder too!" How true these word are (or should be) I wouldn't deal with a breeder that I felt I had to *put up with* for 10 plus years.
 
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This is a great point!! A Dobe breeder I admire told me once that "You are not just buying a dog, you are buying a breeder too!" How true these word are (or should be) I wouldn't deal with a breeder that I felt I had to *put up with* for 10 plus years.
That is a really great point too. The whole process is like aligning stars, not usually an overnight thing.
 

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I have heard of Echo, and personally would not touch her with a 10 foot pole. IMHO she is an embarrassment to anyone who is a good breeder - and I'd like to see her get kicked out of the DPCA. Ask about the dogs that were confiscated from her several years back and what condition they were in. Ask her why she moved away from PA. This is more than just my opinion..... ask rescue about her! There may be breeders out there that I don't personally agree with on some practices, but there are darn few supposedly reputable breeders that I will vehemently warn people away from... Eileen Holtz is one of them. She should not be breeding .... ever!! JMHO

I'm going to add to this and say that I'd rather see you buy a Doberman from someone who may not do all the titling they should but who does the health testing, loves their dogs - and takes care of them the way that they should - than see you buy from Echo. Now anyone who knows me KNOWS that I would not normally say this..... I really feel that strongly.
Early in my search for a new puppy (last spring) I met Eileen of Echo. I visited her home and met her dogs. I have not met a Dobe that I did not like but in hindsight there is a huge difference between Echo and Sharjets. I am so happy with my puppy from Sharjets. In my search I found 3 breeders that really stood out: Kershaw, Sharjets, and Raindance. I'm sure there are many, many more reputable breeders out there but IMO you can not go wrong with any of these 3 breeders.
 
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