Unfortunately I don't think you're going to get very good feedback on what you're looking for. Shipping is nothing, I shipped my puppy and I don't regret it at all. 
Sierra Doberman Farm
I live in northern california in the woods on a fair size piece of land. I have been scouring the internet looking at different breeder websites and talking to them for the last month. I'm not wanting an american size dog, I want a larger muscular european dog and could care less about 'dog shows'. It seems like all the breeders i have looked at are very similar. They all have their 'champ' sires and 'champ' bitches, but im not looking for show dogs and the breeders im more interested in have breeding dogs that produce dogs that are too large to be in shows. So far i have come to 3 different breeders that have large dogs, one of which is sierra doberman farms, but it sounds like people in this forum are not fans of them. If they take care of the pups with shots and socialization, and have a strong looking sire and bitch, what else is there to look for besides price. I also want to have the option of breeding down the road if I want. I dont want to pay 1500 for a dog that I cant do what I want with it.
Please help me out with advice or what not. The other breeders im looking at are charging 2500 + 300 shipping which i think is just outrageous.
Please help me out with advice or what not. The other breeders im looking at are charging 2500 + 300 shipping which i think is just outrageous.
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You aren't going to find a reputable Doberman breeder who breeds "large" dogs. The Doberman standard is for a medium-sized breed. If you are looking for a large breed, have you considered maybe a Great Dane, some sort of molosser (I like English Mastiffs), or even a Saint Bernard?
Sorry, I have no experience with Sierra Dobermans, so I have no advice there. But I am sure there are people on this forum who can chime in that have experience with them.
Good luck!
Sorry, I have no experience with Sierra Dobermans, so I have no advice there. But I am sure there are people on this forum who can chime in that have experience with them.
Good luck!
Im just wanting a doberman that is on the larger size of the doberman breed. There are quite a few breeders which breed for this characteristic, one of which is Doberman Pinschers for Family Guard Dogs and Personal Protection. But what im really wanting to get is some feedback on sierradobiefarms.com if anyone has experience with them. Maybe a little feedback on their stud dog and bitch from their recent litter.
Also, the papers are important to me, but what exactly are the 'papers'? Some breeders say on their sites that you cant register your dogs offspring with AKC if you dont get the breeding rights or something along those lines.
Also, the papers are important to me, but what exactly are the 'papers'? Some breeders say on their sites that you cant register your dogs offspring with AKC if you dont get the breeding rights or something along those lines.
If you're only concerned about breeding and not titling dogs and everything else that goes along with being a reputable breeder, I'm surely not going to suggest breeders to you. You've read the opinions on SD. There's really nothing else to say about them.
http://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding-breeders/47441-reputable-breeders-new-folks.html
http://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding-breeders/47441-reputable-breeders-new-folks.html
What exactly needs to happen for a dog to be 'titled'? Does he have to run through obstacles and have the correct bodily measurements? If a dog is 'titled' does it mean that it has a good personality? Please excuse my ignorance. Surely having a lot of champion dogs in the pedigree doesn't ensure you get a good dog with a good personality or physique, but it probably helps the percentage right? If a dog is too muscular or large can it be shown?
I havent read any opinions on sierradobiefarms.com, thats why im asking for some here. Maybe someone has dealt with them in the past
I havent read any opinions on sierradobiefarms.com, thats why im asking for some here. Maybe someone has dealt with them in the past
why do you want a Doberman?
So far i have come to 3 different breeders that have large dogs, one of which is sierra doberman farms, but it sounds like people in this forum are not fans of them.
You got me a bit confused there. If you haven't read any opinions on here how do you know the people in this forum aren't fans?I havent read any opinions on sierradobiefarms.com, thats why im asking for some here. Maybe someone has dealt with them in the past
I highly suggest you read the DT Manifesto. We have strong beliefs here on DT about supporting responsible, ethical breeders to preserve the breed we love. (Manifesto here: Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums - Announcements in Forum : Site News). You will not get any support if you are looking for an oversized dog.
The reason we support only ethical breeders is because our breed has many, many health issues. Championship parents (and grandparents, great-grandparents, etc.) show that the dogs being bred are within the Doberman standard. Dobermans are medium sized dogs and are built that way for a reason. They need to be agile and sound in order to do their job. Oversized dogs cannot move as quickly and often have serious joint issues. Breeders should also be testing for the huge number of health conditions found in this breed.
As someone who bought a dog from a breeder who didn't meet the high standards set here (before I knew any better and before I found DT), you will regret it.
The reason we support only ethical breeders is because our breed has many, many health issues. Championship parents (and grandparents, great-grandparents, etc.) show that the dogs being bred are within the Doberman standard. Dobermans are medium sized dogs and are built that way for a reason. They need to be agile and sound in order to do their job. Oversized dogs cannot move as quickly and often have serious joint issues. Breeders should also be testing for the huge number of health conditions found in this breed.
As someone who bought a dog from a breeder who didn't meet the high standards set here (before I knew any better and before I found DT), you will regret it.
My opinion... Anyone that breeds a 7 year old bitch is scum, and personally I don't think they care about their dog at that point...I havent read any opinions on sierradobiefarms.com, thats why im asking for some here. Maybe someone has dealt with them in the past
Any breeder that mentions Oversized/Supierior/Large/Etc is just in to get your money... Their dogs tend to have fairly poor health as well...
Titling depends on the event....
Some dogs are Agility dogs and run courses... Some are show dogs, and have Confomation titles... Some have Working titles (like Schutzhund)... And some dogs have a mixture of all these....
A title shows or proves the dog is of good "stock" and goes hand in hand with correct health testing...
DCM is a big killer in the breed... DCM is a heart disorder, and if a breeder doesn't Holter their dogs I'd run away....
If you are in Nor Cal near Sacramento, the NW Regional SchH Championships are this weekend. Why not come out and watch what it takes to trial and title in SchH? Also, the Sac Doberman Club is having a specialty outside Sac on Oct 7th. You could come out and see what it takes to title in conformation.
There are lots of things to do with dogs. Personally, I am not a fan of breeders who breed just because they have a dog with testicles and a dog with a uterus.
Let me know if you want more info on either of these events coming up.
There are lots of things to do with dogs. Personally, I am not a fan of breeders who breed just because they have a dog with testicles and a dog with a uterus.
Let me know if you want more info on either of these events coming up.
Chances are you won't be getting many opinions on the person/dogs that you are asking about because they are not an ethical breeder. Therefore most of the people here won't have a dog from somebody like that. The ones that do are either few and far between OR they got their dog from a rescue (where most of these dogs end up) and don't actually know who the "breeder" is.
Yes, some people advertise for larger than standard dobermans but that doesn't make it ethical. "Warlock" and "King" dobermans, as they are often called, are a marketing ploy that works REALLY well on Americans who think that bigger is better. It's not. The doberman is made to be a medium sized breed and they function correctly when they are the right size. A medium sized doberman will tend to be faster and stronger than a doberman bred to be larger than standard because dobermans aren't meant to a large breed dog.
Also, a doberman doesn't have to be XXL to look intimidating. My 9 month old sends people to the other side of the street just by looking at them with his tongue hanging out. Oh, and he's only about 70lbs right now. Size means nothing to a doberman when it comes to looking intimidating.
Please read the forums, there are threads about the pains that "warlock" dobies have to go through and there are threads about painful losses of dogs from BYBs who died far too young. Also, please do some real research on the breed and the health issues that come with it.
Edit: It took me two seconds to find plenty of threads on Sierra and FamilyDobes. Here are a few threads...
Sierra Dobe Farm
Good, reasonable breeders?
This one is about "Super Sized" dobes
http://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding-breeders/36430-doberman-pinschers-desert-legend.html
http://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding-breeders/14216-desert-legend.html
Yes, some people advertise for larger than standard dobermans but that doesn't make it ethical. "Warlock" and "King" dobermans, as they are often called, are a marketing ploy that works REALLY well on Americans who think that bigger is better. It's not. The doberman is made to be a medium sized breed and they function correctly when they are the right size. A medium sized doberman will tend to be faster and stronger than a doberman bred to be larger than standard because dobermans aren't meant to a large breed dog.
Also, a doberman doesn't have to be XXL to look intimidating. My 9 month old sends people to the other side of the street just by looking at them with his tongue hanging out. Oh, and he's only about 70lbs right now. Size means nothing to a doberman when it comes to looking intimidating.
Please read the forums, there are threads about the pains that "warlock" dobies have to go through and there are threads about painful losses of dogs from BYBs who died far too young. Also, please do some real research on the breed and the health issues that come with it.
Edit: It took me two seconds to find plenty of threads on Sierra and FamilyDobes. Here are a few threads...
Sierra Dobe Farm
Good, reasonable breeders?
This one is about "Super Sized" dobes
http://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding-breeders/36430-doberman-pinschers-desert-legend.html
http://www.dobermantalk.com/breeding-breeders/14216-desert-legend.html
Why do you want a Doberman, exactly?
Did you know that the size of Dobermans first imported to this country, the ones that were closely related to the original dogs bred by Louis Dobermann, the "real, old style, German Dobermanns" were about the size of a Whippet? The original standard (which is really just characteristics that the people who love the breed wrote down) the bitches could be as little as 18.8" and the dogs could be as large as 23.6." I'd be surprised if they were even 50 lbs.
The real, tough, working dogs are often petite, much smaller than the large dogs in the American show rings. And the massive things being bred by US euro trash mills don't fit anyone's standards, and would wear out too quickly to be satisfactory working dogs.
Also, to address the idea of breeding a litter, all the health testing, stud fees, and vet bills, start at about 10 grand, and ethical breeders rarely come close to making that back. The original price tag and shipping is the cheap part of owning a dog.
Did you know that the size of Dobermans first imported to this country, the ones that were closely related to the original dogs bred by Louis Dobermann, the "real, old style, German Dobermanns" were about the size of a Whippet? The original standard (which is really just characteristics that the people who love the breed wrote down) the bitches could be as little as 18.8" and the dogs could be as large as 23.6." I'd be surprised if they were even 50 lbs.
The real, tough, working dogs are often petite, much smaller than the large dogs in the American show rings. And the massive things being bred by US euro trash mills don't fit anyone's standards, and would wear out too quickly to be satisfactory working dogs.
Also, to address the idea of breeding a litter, all the health testing, stud fees, and vet bills, start at about 10 grand, and ethical breeders rarely come close to making that back. The original price tag and shipping is the cheap part of owning a dog.
Have you considered a rescue? Since you aren't concerned with the dog's pedigree and you prefer a larger than standard dog, a rescue dog could be ideal! Oversized dobes are a dime a dozen in rescues! And a rescue would be much much cheaper, more in the $100 - 300 range.
The questions asked of you here are good ones. But I think you need to get out and really see some dobes. If you think Euro dobes are larger, massive dobes than the "show" dogs, you need to look again. There are plenty of males out there of great substance from American lines too. There is not really that much difference in height, maybe in bone but I see plenty of American lines with real substance.
That said, no one but a unethical person is going to sell you a puppy on full registration. No one reputable is going to want their dogs names on the pedigree that ends up in the hands of a backyard breeder and the dogs in the shelter.
That said, no one but a unethical person is going to sell you a puppy on full registration. No one reputable is going to want their dogs names on the pedigree that ends up in the hands of a backyard breeder and the dogs in the shelter.
I live in northern california in the woods on a fair size piece of land. I have been scouring the internet looking at different breeder websites and talking to them for the last month. I'm not wanting an american size dog, I want a larger muscular european dog and could care less about 'dog shows'. It seems like all the breeders i have looked at are very similar. They all have their 'champ' sires and 'champ' bitches, but im not looking for show dogs and the breeders im more interested in have breeding dogs that produce dogs that are too large to be in shows. So far i have come to 3 different breeders that have large dogs, one of which is sierra doberman farms, but it sounds like people in this forum are not fans of them. If they take care of the pups with shots and socialization, and have a strong looking sire and bitch, what else is there to look for besides price. I also want to have the option of breeding down the road if I want. I dont want to pay 1500 for a dog that I cant do what I want with it.
Please help me out with advice or what not. The other breeders im looking at are charging 2500 + 300 shipping which i think is just outrageous.
Would you like a healthy dog? Would you like a dog with a good temperament? Would you like lifelong support/mentoring from your breeder? Would you like dog that looks and acts like a Doberman? If by chance this is wht you are looking for, RUN away from the breeder you're looking at and find a REPUTABLE breeder.
You breed pedigrees not dogs. What does the PEDIGREE look like for the sire and dam? If they don't have any titles (Ch), how can they say they are good looking? What have they done to "prove" the dog in any venue?
You know the saying, "You get what you pay for." Keep that in mind when out looking for these cheap BYBs who don't give a crap about what they breed.
Do you know what it costs to ship a puppy? Why shouldn't the buyer pay shipping? The airlines have their fees listed. I suggest you go check it out.
He is just another byb that Kimbertal put into business. Simply a cheaper version of Kimbertal. A larger than standard doberman will not have the stamina and agility that is needed to work and perform guard duties for the long term. The larger dogs are simply going to break down over time. Just like a 30 lb pit bull can defeat a 60 lb pitbull, the standard dobe can get the job done easier. If you want an oversize dog that will more than likely be unable to do the job at 6 or7 then there are a lot of breeders to choose from. Take your pick, but dont be surprised if you dont hear from them if problems arise. Well, you can usually get a replacement if you are willing to return your dog that you have raised and loved. You really should go to the sch trials and the show like Incredible suggested.
I don't think the OP wants a quality, agile, healthy Doberman, just this:
http://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman-related-chat/57775-two-words.html
http://www.dobermantalk.com/doberman-related-chat/57775-two-words.html
Good breeders do not breed oversized dogs. Bad breeders, who know they won't get the business of educated buyers have to cater to the general public. To the general public, bigger is better. To people that understand dogs, they know that standards are in place for a reason, and they choose breeders who follow that standard. Whether or not you want to compete in shows, the standard is there for a reason. People think oversized dogs are bad ass, but the truth is they are slower, less powerful, have less stamina, and have more health problems than a healthy dog bred to standard. But, people think they look cool, so they buy them. I would recomend doing some more reading before you decide on a breeder to make sure you make a good decision.
Dobermans are a medium sized dog. If you are looking for a bigger dog, there are plenty of other breeds available. But a breeder who is selling over-sized dobermans is not the kind of breeder that you will get recommendations for, whether you're on this site, any other doberman site, or talking to people that know dogs in general.
Dobermans are a medium sized dog. If you are looking for a bigger dog, there are plenty of other breeds available. But a breeder who is selling over-sized dobermans is not the kind of breeder that you will get recommendations for, whether you're on this site, any other doberman site, or talking to people that know dogs in general.
Titles suggest that the dog is of quality. A championship means that the dog is to conformational standard, which is different depending on the breed. A conformationally correct dog ought to be well-built, square, and able to move well and athletically. Titles that come after a dog's name are working titles (typically), and also mean that the dog is correctly built and able to perform his or her job. A poorly bred dog far enough out of standard won't be able to title in many venues.
And, I'm curious as well, OP: why do you want a Doberman? Also, unless I'm misreading, you want to get into breeding? Do you feel that will be a moneymaker for you?
I second the suggestion to look into rescue, if titles and papers don't matter.
And, I'm curious as well, OP: why do you want a Doberman? Also, unless I'm misreading, you want to get into breeding? Do you feel that will be a moneymaker for you?
I second the suggestion to look into rescue, if titles and papers don't matter.
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