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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello DT members,
So i need some help/suggestions. I feel like I want to explore more of the potential of my dog and give her something to do. I have a Shutzund club about 45 mins from me and thats about it as far as dog clubs unless you own a hunting dog. I read all the reviews about non working line dogs not making it in SCh and not even sure if thats what i want to persue with my dog. im not trying to win a national event. I have a champion sired dog that will do awsome in conformation, but not really interrested in that because I dont think i'll ever breed her. Mainly because if i was to breed, id health test, title, etc etc. .. not for me i dont think. I have contacted the club, they invited me out, said they can evaluate my dog. So from what i have read they will probably tell me my dog doesnt have what it takes to be a sport dog? If thats the case, is there other things i should look into with her? agility? obediance? She does fine in obediance, but i dont think she loves it. She wants to chase, chew, tug, etc. The breeder said when she was a puppy she liked to tunnel and climb. Im not really sure what my end goal is with her and looking for help on constructive play/competion things i can do with my dobie. I understand all these things take lots of work so i better decide soon as she is 17.5 weeks. Any questions i should ask this club? Im scrambling for info so i am some what informed to evaluate how much these ppl know. Anyone know how their "evaluation" of my puppy will go? They said they test as early as 16 weeks, if i go sat she will be old enough for an evaluation. Thanks!
 

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They will likely just test your dogs drives, instincts, etc. If your dog is not from working lines, I wouldn't expect too much, any true ability will be a bonus. But, that doesn't mean you still can't do it, if your dog enjoys it and has the right temperement for it. There are some dogs that should not be trained in this type of thing... I'm not sure that my girl would ever have a chance of being truly competitive, but it's something that we both love to do, and we do alot of bitework at home for fun. I even taught her to avoid kicks! lol. Great way to burn some energy.
 

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Just because your dog isn't from working lines doesn't mean you can't do Schutzhund. People do Schutzhund with anything from Labradors to rescue mutts. You probably won't be attaining a SchIII but that doesn't mean you can't go and have fun, maybe put a lower level title on your dog. But hey, who knows... You might have a diamond in the rough! ;)

Check it out... Schutzhund Jack Russell Terrier!
Claudia Romard & Mr. Murphy - YouTube

Any dog with the right drives and temperament can do Schutzhund recreationally, regardless of how it's bred.
 

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Just because your dog isn't from working lines doesn't mean you can't do Schutzhund. People do Schutzhund with anything from Labradors to rescue mutts. You probably won't be attaining a SchIII but that doesn't mean you can't go and have fun, maybe put a lower level title on your dog. But hey, who knows... You might have a diamond in the rough! ;)

Check it out... Schutzhund Jack Russell Terrier!
Claudia Romard & Mr. Murphy - YouTube

Any dog with the right drives and temperament can do Schutzhund recreationally, regardless of how it's bred.

I just have to say- that video was awesome! Go go little guy! :) Carry on..
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
id be happy with a SCHI title. :) Question is... does my pup want to do it. If she does, i'll probably persue it. I hope the club can help me determine that. They are busy training for the region championships or something like that in march so i should get to see some cool dogs.
 

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I would go for it. My boy isn't from all working lines but we are currently training in Schutzhund. I have found that for him, this style of obedience works well for us in incorporating his drive. It also gives you the chance to train in three different disciplines...obedience, tracking, and protection. It depends on the club, but my club has dogs that only train in obedience and tracking because either the owner isn't interested in protection, or the dog just doesn't have it. I actually love the obedience work the most over tracking and protection.

Agility could work great for you too...try both and see which "clicks". At only 17 weeks I would just focus on building a bond and playing a ton, interact with her.
 
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I am attending a Shutzhund Club with my boy, thing is, I have no interest what so ever in doing any kind of test and certainly have no interest in doing bitework. Having told them this they said they would happily help me explore the other things they do. Tracking, Obediance, Agility, Search and Rescue etc or I can simply go along (which is what we are doing at the moment) to socialise him with other dogs and people with no pressure what so ever.
 

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There are a couple of show dogs that are dabbling in the sport in my clubs. Train the dog to the best of its ability. Just see how it goes. If there is some drive then you could do some work. You don't need to go in to it looking to be on the podium. There are lots of people who just do SchH for fun.
 

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I'd try out whatever interests you and see if your pup likes it, too. I think doing anything with your dog, whether it's bite sports, agility, nose work, tracking, or dock diving, any of the dog sports out there, will help you build a wonderful relationship with your dog and will challenge her mentally and physically. Do whatever you enjoy together! Like others have said, if your pup enjoys Schutzhund, and you have a club that will let you participate without a dog capable of high level competition, why not?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
ok so I spoke with the club presidents wife last night. She invited us out saturday. Said we can look around, ask questions and have our dog evaluated. She said they teach you how to train obediance and tracking on your own time and protection is done at the club. She said her husband has titled many dogs and he is the one she recommended I speak with saturday. I have been looking at lots of Michael Ellis dvds on leerburgs site and you tube, I like everything this guy says, I wish he had a club near me. Anyways, Im learning all i can so I wont be completely uninformed. I think Michael has a vast understanding of this work and a great way of explaining it... he talks about threasholds for defense, forward and backward responses, what dogs he wouldnt train, etc. If these ppl are not on this level of knowledge and understanding I'll probably pass. They dont do agility training so i guess thats out.
 

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If you are like me and don't have much choice in Dog Training Clubs I can understand your using this one, but is there really no club closer to you, you could check out. From what I have seen on this site it seems to be the case that in the US most folk are never far from a club or three.

Regards Agility, if this is where your heart lies then why not do as my friend did, she built her own course in her own backyard and what's more she hasnt spent a fortune on equipment, building most of it herself, so why not consider following suit.

As I have said, I have no inclination to do Shutzhund, to be honest my boy is terrified of everything and the training club we are going to is run by a guy whilst nice, actually scares the crap out of my boy. If he raises his voice to give us instructions my boy looks at me as if to say, 'Mum the nasty man is shouting at me again.' Even though he isn't, I guess my boy is still too sensitive to differentiate between general commands being called out so a group can hear and him being shouted at. Add to this whenever he sees any of the dogs being corrected I often have to take Toby well away from the class to calm him down as he looks at me as if to say, 'mum you aren't going to do that to me are you, and please mum don't let the trainer come any closer will you.'

Now as I have said, in my case I have no choice in clubs I can go to, the only other club I could go to is a French / Mundo (I think that is what it is called) Ring Club and it is 4 hours up the Autopista from my home. Add to this I need a certificate from a registered dog training club to show Toby is controllable (long story but it is to do with the Spanish perceiving Dobes as being Dangerous Dogs and the paranoia of the police around these parts) I have to go where I can.

But do you have to go to this club, really or are you choosing to go because you want too????
 

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ok so I spoke with the club presidents wife last night. She invited us out saturday. Said we can look around, ask questions and have our dog evaluated. She said they teach you how to train obediance and tracking on your own time and protection is done at the club. She said her husband has titled many dogs and he is the one she recommended I speak with saturday. I have been looking at lots of Michael Ellis dvds on leerburgs site and you tube, I like everything this guy says, I wish he had a club near me. Anyways, Im learning all i can so I wont be completely uninformed. I think Michael has a vast understanding of this work and a great way of explaining it... he talks about threasholds for defense, forward and backward responses, what dogs he wouldnt train, etc. If these ppl are not on this level of knowledge and understanding I'll probably pass. They dont do agility training so i guess thats out.
Every trainer and every club is different, don't expect to go and it be like going to a Michael Ellis seminar or watching one of his videos. There are lots of training philosophies / methodologies, of which Michael Ellis' is just one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I am interrested in an IPO 1 title... the president of the club is competiting an IPO III dog in the region chapionships as well as another member of the club so they must know something about all this. There are only 8 dogs competing and 2 are from this club. I just want to make sure first and foremost my pup wants to do this work, if she does, awsome, if not then ok. I think it will be fun, and I am hoping its the right call as this club I hope knows what they are doing. I dont think you can get IPO3 dogs without knowing i guess.
 

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I do schutzhund with a show dog. We wont see a podium, we might not even see a club trial. We go very slow, as long as he enjoys the work we will continue. Point being you cant have un-realistic goals, as long as your honest with yourself you'll be fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I do schutzhund with a show dog. We wont see a podium, we might not even see a club trial. We go very slow, as long as he enjoys the work we will continue. Point being you cant have un-realistic goals, as long as your honest with yourself you'll be fine.
So where is your dog lacking? courage? attention? across the board? How long have you been training and have you taken the BH yet?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
just found out her sister started her show career with a bang! Her first weekend out at UKC Shows, she won BIS Puppy 3 times and RBIS Puppy once! She was just 3 1/2 months old. maybe i should be showing mine and becoming a breeder instead of trying to work her??? dont know if i have the time/money for all that though... getting a working title seems easier than breeding and im more interrested in that.
 

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We've been training since he was 10 wks, we have been a member of a club since he was around a year old. I wouldn't say he was "lacking" anywhere or he doesn't have certain drives.(though his are far below that of a good working bred dog) The thing with him is the duration he will actively engage me and want to work. In these moments he is driven and ready to go. But he is only like this for such a short time in the big picture.Thus why it is a long road, I am not able to train him continually, complex behaviors take time to build up. If I stopped training him today and never worked with him again, he would have no problem sitting on the couch the rest of his days. He doesnt have the piss and fire inside him to NEED to do the work. He does the work for me. He's an amazing dog, I have learned so much working with him. But I realize I will probably not be on a podium anytime soon. No biggie, I had no intention of even doing bite work in the beginning anyway. But alas I am hooked!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Have you looked into developing the drives? Im sure you have. I guess thats a pretty tough one to address anyways. I think the obedience trial part of the IPO1 is like around 7 mins on average. I guess thats where the genetics of wanting to please the handler come in. Any reason why you chose working over show? My breeder wants me to show, but I think I like working better. This club visit should help alot. Plus, not sure if the dog really gets anything out of showing. Im doing this to keep her from getting bored.

its not impossible
http://www.familydobes.com/uragan.htm

i know this breeder doesnt have a good rep, but they seem to health test and have titled dogs on both sides.
 

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I did not reply to this thread for advice.


Im sure you meant well by it but it came off all wrong. Your asking about a sport ect, but then shelling out advice on how I can work my dog. Then throwing out a link to family dobes.

The only reason my dog is where he is, is because of drive building. Drive building will cap off at some point. You cannot make a dog something it genetically isn't. You took the whole work duration the wrong way. Its not like he will go on the field and stop, after a set time and lay belly up. The point i was trying to make is he is not driven to need to work 24/7. Even with all the drive building I have done his drives are minimal in comparison to many dogs who have been competitive in the sport. Maybe I said it in a misleading way. Another thing for you to realize is I compare my dog and my definition of drive off a multitude of dogs. My definition of low drive may not be anywhere near someone else's. I have a great dog, not driven like many working bred dogs. I think for a Completely show line dog he has performed beyond anyone's expectation. He is a super dog at home, he is wonderful with my kids. He is my first working breed, and the first dog I've had since I was a kid. I couldnt be happier with my "show" dog!

To answer your question about showing, I just have no interest in it. I think showings great, but its not my cup of tea.


Again Im not mad and sorry If it seemed that way.

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
No I didnt mean it that way at all. My breeder wants me to show and id rather do the working sports. I was just posting the family dobes one to show there are dogs that do both because maybe ill do both. But I doubt it. I dont have a whole lot of understanding about this and ppl tell me she likly lacks the drives to do this work, I was just asking if that was the case. Sorry it came off wrong.
 
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