Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums banner
1 - 20 of 66 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am currently looking into this type of training for Ajax. I am wondering if anyone has any sort of experience with it. If so what are some of the things that I should look for in a competent trainer, seems like every trainer I run across claims to be the best... hahah YAY Capitalism!

Anyhoo any advice I might be able to receive would be great!

Thanks )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,589 Posts
I'm pretty sure BackinBlack is working on this with Rommel.... hopefully she'll come around and give some insight:)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
880 Posts
Hi Jason,

Yup, BiB is into that.

I would love to get into it, but I don't have enough free time on my hands to devote to the training. Are you talking about choosing a specific trainer or a club? I would immagine you should be able to find information about specific clubs either on the net or through word of mouth at local trials, etc.

You also might get some more help in finding info here:

http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php

http://www.usadobermann.com./
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
665 Posts
I've heard of this Shutzhund type of training, what exactly is it? Thanks in advance, just curious.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,037 Posts
Ok I will try to explain, my English is may be not the way it must be but I will try.

IPO excist out of 3 diciplines part 1 the tracking, part 2 the obedience, and the 3 rd part is biting.

We never start early about 8 months depend on the dog he must have his normal teeth for the biting, we started with a jute rag, just to see if he wants to bite, the dog must see the rag as a toy and he may have him as a reward, later on you learn the biting on the sleeve or bite arm. When he is more experienced and he likes the game, you will send him to find the decoy the man with the sleeve and when he found him he must bark, hold and bark, picture 1the handler walks in and call the dog beside him, then tell the decoy stand ready for we called it in dutch the vlucht when I translate it letterly it means flight, you put the decoy in position and when he try to escape you send the dog to catch the sleeve picture 2



then when the decoy stand still he had to sit in front of the decoy just to watch the decoy, after that you send him on the distance ,that is it just a bit for biting, you have IPO1 IPO2 and IPO3 when you do a examination and you do is succesfully you go a step further. when you become further you get more handlings to do.

The obedience part exist out of several things with IPO 1 your dog must follow you close to you like this


The sit, down, stay on his place, apport, also jump over the fence, and send out,





The same for tracking, you make a track for the one you walk a track that looks like a U 2 corners and 2 articels, when the dog found the articels he must go down and the handler had to pick it up shown it and follow the track, when you go further you get more corners and articels to make it a bit diffecult.
here some pictures of tracking


this is what you need, the beginning of the track from were you start


this are the articels


and at the end the reward


Its been a whole story by now, it is diffecult to write it all you must see it and then you know the IPO hopefully I made it a bit clear and understandable

But it is nice to do it, but it takes a lot of your time to do it all, we are training 3 times a week, and beside that we go for tracking 2 or 3 times a week, but tracking is something when you understand it you can do on your own.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
880 Posts
well... put simply it's a sport. It is a sport created with the purpose to evaluate a dog's character by giving it specific tasks to perform.

It consists of 3 phases: tracking, obedience, and protection. You can earn titles (just like in akc obedience, or agility) and with each progressing title, more is expected of the dog and handler in each phase.

As an example, the tracking requirement for a Sch1 trial is for the dog to navigate a track about 300-400 paces long and about 20minutes old, the track included 2 articles the dog needs to find. For a Sch2 trial, the track is about 400-500 paces long and is about 30 minutes old.

For the obedience requirement of the trial for a Sch1 the dog needs to heel off leash, sit in motion, down and recall, retrieve on the flat, retrieve over a jump, send away and down, and do a long down under distraction. Obiously things get more difficult and new requirements are added for the subsequent titles.

The protection requirement of a Sch1 is for the dog to hold and bark the helper (the bad guy), protect the handler from an attack by the helper, and run at and attack an aggressive fast approaching helper (that's called the courage test).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,752 Posts
Thank You Elly and Zucker.

You did more to explain to me just what it is you guys are doing than anything else I've read.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
880 Posts
elly said:
sorry for that, it took some time finding the right words and pictures!:emo11:

no don't be sorry!! lol you managed to write all that AND you had pictures!! :D I didn't have pictures :(

your english is very good! don't feel bad if you're not sure about a word here or there, I'm sure every one here knows exactly what you're saying
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
665 Posts
Thank you so much guys, the pictures and explanations were very informative. So, much of this has to do with K-9 police and military dogs too? That was/has always been a dream job of mine...to work in law enforcement with a k-9. What a job nevermind you also obtain the most loyal partner when working in dangerous situations...your dog at your side.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,169 Posts
I second Chaz! Thanks for the explanations and pics! (I love the Dobie with the dumbell!)

I have a question though. With the bite work: For pet dogs that are learning this sport basically for fun, are they taught only to bite a catch sleeve? I realize military working dogs and police dogs need to be taught to bite clothing/flesh. Or I guess, since I doubt anyone is brave enough to offer their bare arm up for these lessons. How do people training working dogs teach the dogs to bite something other than the sleeve? I would imagine that the dogs become used to the sleeve and as pets too are taught from a young age that teeth on the skin is a bad thing... Just curious really...
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,743 Posts
Rommel and I do Schutzhund together. There seems to be alot of controversy over the sport, but we really really enjoy it.

CARA Dobermans has alot of good information about the sport, here is a link to their website http://www.caradobe.com/schutzhund.html

The main Schutzhund organizations in the US are AWDF American Working Dog Federation http://www.awdf.net/ and USA United Schutzhund Clubs of America http://www.germanshepherddog.com/

If I were you, I would also check out UDC http://www.uniteddobermanclub.com/ and see if they have any clubs in your area.

Depending on where you live, there may be several clubs nearby (which would be ideal) or just 1 or 2. There is only one near me, and they are a great bunch, I just got lucky. I have visted a few others, some I would say I like, others....not so much.

The only thing to keep in mind, is that this sport is very demanding, it takes ALOT of time and work, and if you are not dedicated to it, I would not reccomend it, because you will be more frustrated than anything.

I am a newbie to the sport, and like I said, so far....so good, we love it, but it is not for everyone, or every dog. Like everyone said, there are 3 phases Tracking, Obedience and Protection. If you want my opinion, try to find a trainer who focus's on the obedience portion. The rest of it is important as well, but some trainers FOCUS on protection, and the rest is secondary. In my opinion, the obedience is the most important, because if you dont have that...you have nothing. Tracking should be second nature, but they have to learn it the "schutzhund way" and they need to track at least 3-5 days a week, at LEAST....and Protection, they have it or they dont. They can be taught it, but that goes back to obedience. Being consistant is the key.

Good Luck :)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,743 Posts
Tracy in the USA as far as I know, all Schutzhund dogs are only taught to bite the sleeve. They are DQ'd if they were to bite anywhere else. From what I have read, Police and Military Dogs are taught very differently. We have a police officer who is training her "pet" mal in Schutzhund, she said the training is very different. I have seen her police dog work on the bite suit, and it is awesome to watch, but it is very different.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
64 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks all you guys for the great info and links, this is something that I have wanted to do with Ajax for a while... He is so smart and eager to please (all of us can attest to their dobies being brilliant) sometimes it seems as if his regular obedience and off leash work doesn't seem to be enough for him anymore.

Thanks again

Jason
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
880 Posts
TracyJo said:
I second Chaz! Thanks for the explanations and pics! (I love the Dobie with the dumbell!)

I have a question though. With the bite work: For pet dogs that are learning this sport basically for fun, are they taught only to bite a catch sleeve? I realize military working dogs and police dogs need to be taught to bite clothing/flesh. Or I guess, since I doubt anyone is brave enough to offer their bare arm up for these lessons. How do people training working dogs teach the dogs to bite something other than the sleeve? I would imagine that the dogs become used to the sleeve and as pets too are taught from a young age that teeth on the skin is a bad thing... Just curious really...

Yup, you got it right Tracy. Keep in mind Sch. training is essentially just a game with some strict rules as to how the dog is to behave. Even the protection faze begins as a game to the dog. It's almost like an overblown game of tug with the sleeve being the toy. With progressive training, the dog is gradually pushed to the point where the game takes on a more serious note and the dog feels threatened by the decoy to the point that it's defensive drives kick in.

I can relate that to track lapping in a car. You can lap the track at a slower pace, making sure your driving is technical and correct. However as you gradually add speed, your attitude and pulse changes. Things start feeling more "life or death" as opposed to "just fun", but it's still all just a game.

When it comes to training a police dog, you obviously don't want a dog who is plaing the game just for the sleeve. A Sch. trained dog would be too predictable and wouldn't be usefull in a variety of different situations. Those dogs therefore go through very different training. The dogs need to be able to adapt their skills to the different situations they're faced with. They need to be able to perform many more tasks for their handler then a sch. dog would. "How do people training working dogs teach the dogs to bite something other than the sleeve?" Easy, they don't use a sleeve, they use full body suits.

The amount and level of training that goes into a police dog is trully remarkable. Those animals and the people working with them are amazing.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
6,743 Posts
Zucker, when Rommel was really really little, I started tracking with him only 1 day a week. (He was only 9 weeks old) I wouldnt even call it tracking... I put him in "the box" He sniffed out my footprints in a flagged off box, while he ate his food. Then I started really short tracks, with no articles. Just alot of reward at the end. I would do it Saturdays with the club, and usually one night a week on my own. We did imprinting 3 days a week, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday, where they were just "playing with him" with a rag on the end of a stick, and I would hold him back on the leash. When he had a full grip, or re-gripped, he gets the rag, YAYYYYY until he drops it, then we start over. This progressed to the puppy tug, now the larger tug, and the sleeve. Before I came to Texas I was meeting with some of our club trainers every morning except Sunday. We were at the tracking field between 6:30 and 7, he tracked for his breakfast, then when we left, we went to the club field and did bite work and obedience. If he didnt track well in the morning, sometimes I would take him back out to the field to track for his dinner. Not always, but sometimes. So, to awnser your question, 6 days a week, every morning. He knows when he sees the club field, its time to work..and he gets so excited. Since I have been visiting my family here, I have layed him a few tracks, and obedience is a 24/7 thing, but nothing formal. We will get right back into our routine when we get back though.
 
1 - 20 of 66 Posts
Top