[Georgie]

I went to a show this weekend, nice and local.. to Paris France! 720 miles round trip but worth it!

For those who dont understand how the shows work in Europe i'll give a very quick explanation so you understand my results.

there are 4 places available, 1-4.
Dogs are graded Excellent, very good, good, unsatisfactory, disqualified.

Top awards are CAC (you require these for a CH title, different amount in different countries) and a CACIB (Best of breed and required for international titles)

In order to be eligible to challenge for the CAC you need to be graded excellent. You can win a class but the judge does not need to grade you excellent.

Correct me if i am wrong but i am still new to showing out there and it is slightly more complicated than the UK.

We set out on friday morning, late.. as per usual!
Met up with Darren and Sam who own Enzo (Newfords Fame Monster JW) and headed out to the Euro tunnel and in france some 35 minutes later!

We were due to meet the breeder of Zara and Enzos sire for supper but combine my inability to put the correct address in Sat Nav with driving on the wrong side of the road and way way way too many traffic lights we didnt get there till 11 pm!! This didnt stop us from having a nice Curry with great company!

Finally asleep by about 2am, dogs all walked and settled in the hotel room... alarms off for 6am! ha!

Off to the show all settled in after bringing 7 cages and 8 dogs in.. 1st in was Enzo.

Because we are allowed to double handle his owner who normally shows him was better placed outside the ring calling him so his sires breeder handled him for us.
We show the same as the USA pretty much but in europe its very different and Enzo had never been shown this way before but in true Enzo style he took to it with ease and not only showed BEAUTIFULLY.. he also WON his class... and to boot was graded Excellent! Seems this boy can hold his own out of his own country too!! woo!!

Next in the ring was Enzos half brother Storm. There were 5 dogs in the class, Storm was a little too distracted to play the whole double handling so did it normally.. yet this didnt hinder him and he also was graded Excellent and placed 2nd behind the dog i am using on Zara at some point!! So super pleased!! Storm is from my first litter.

Time for Zara... The bum-dog is mental.. she is the most amazing dog to handle like this as she is so fixated on the food and just waits.. and waits.. and waits! Shown like this she comes alive!
Class of 7 for her and the judge moves and moves and moves me.. lining everyone up.. then moving me up a place.. having me and another dog move again... moving me up again.. and again.. then finally settling on 3rd place!! Also graded Excellent! SO happy!!!

Come time for the buka-bum... class of 2, placed 2nd. She didnt have enough bone or was mature enough for the judge (shes 7 months old!!) so cant argue with that but all in all she showed so well and more importantly moved far better than the puppy in her class.

We are back out in March to Luxemboug to try for Enzos CH title there.. which now.. i feel alot more confident about! WOO!!

Enzo in his class

Storm a few days before we left :

Buka a few days before:

and bum at 15 months.. she has changed a lot since here, really need to get a new shot of her! Her tail looks odd as she wouldnt stop wagging!!

All in all incredibly happy with the results, I think the advantage we had over a number of the dogs is movement. The head and fronts on the dogs in our classes are lovely but everything from the withers back just seems sloppy. I like to see my dogs move with power purpose and drive, not just drag the back legs along as they are attached to the front.

 

[akturbo]

I love Enzo

 

[Georgie]

It was definitely fun. Looking forward to the next trip!

 

[Marieldobes]

Congratulations on the wins! Wow, keeping track is confusing...how many CACs are needed in France for a championship?

Jan

 

[Toby'shuman]

Normally you need 3 CAC's from 3 different judges. But it is always wise to check with the relevant Kennel Club in the country you are showing in.

 

[Georgie]

Ch. of France for Dobermanns you need 3 CACs (1 from the National Elevage or the Championate - 1 From a Dobermann Special held at Int.Shows & 1 From an Int. Show) you also must have eye test HD-A or B & as of this year DCM test 2 months before you claim the title + you must have French working tests CSAU TAN & TC. (IPO RCI does not count!!)

 

[LindaH]

How many were in Enzo's class?

So Storm was out of your first breeding??? The breeding with the friend's male doberman that attacked the puppy? I didn't think you kept but one bitch pup out of that litter, Ruby, I believe was her name. Am I wrong? What ever happened to Ruby, anyway?

So who are these dogs, pup out of?

Did they grade the puppy or do they wait till an older age?

Congrats on your placements and grades. Nice to hear you are still showing.

edit: Hooray for the DCM test. That is great to hear!!!

 

[Georgie]

How many were in Enzo's class?

So Storm was out of your first breeding??? The breeding with the friend's male doberman that attacked the puppy? I didn't think you kept but one bitch pup out of that litter, Ruby, I believe was her name. Am I wrong? What ever happened to Ruby, anyway?

So who are these dogs, pup out of?

Did they grade the puppy or do they wait till an older age?

Congrats on your placements and grades. Nice to hear you are still showing.

edit: Hooray for the DCM test. That is great to hear!!!

Morning Linda,

Yes, storm was from the first breeding. I kept Ruby but i show storm for his owners, he now has his stud book number and a life time qualification for crufts along with a RCC (reserve challenge certificate) So all in all he has done fantastically as a show dog. He is at the moment the top winning dog I handle.

Ruby i concentrate on working, about to put an updated post up with some great pics of her, moved her off a sleeve yesterday on to a bite suit and took to it beautifully. She is my princess!! I show her from time to time but she is used more as a junior handling dog as she is so patient with the kiddies and all the training i did with her means shes is pretty bomb proof.
i'll probably take her out to Luxembourg with me as i miss her when i go away!!

There were 3 in Enzos class, full class placings can be seen here. There were 5 in Storms, 7 in Zaras and 2 in Bukas.

Show > 2012 > CACIB Paris, France 2012-01-07

oh i am very much still showing! Out every weekend, husband severely dissaproves! ha. Off to one in a minute infact but thankfully its a local one.

Buka is out of a dog called CH Amazon Talk Of The Devil JW, Enzo is out of a dog called CH Keyalas Dream Machine At Nytbonn BH AD IPO1

They grade the puppies, very promising, promising and something else but not a great one. The judge did say she was very nice but not enough front or bone at this point in time for him.

ha and yes. We finally have a DCM test available which doesn't bankrupt you. You have the blood test and if there are any abnormalities they will refer for a echo/holter but all of mine came back perfect. All dogs had good rhythm, no murmurous and in good health and cleared from DCM at that point in time. I always said i would do it.. it was just a matter of time and resources. I wont be doing the DCM gene as i dont believe it to be the be all and end all. Seeing dogs come back as Negative but in the latter stages of DCM kinda put me off... but i am doing what i can to ensure my beasties are fit and healthy and have a long life.

 

[SchumiTEC]

Storm is a handsome guy.

 

[LindaH]

ha and yes. We finally have a DCM test available which doesn't bankrupt you. You have the blood test and if there are any abnormalities they will refer for a echo/holter but all of mine came back perfect. All dogs had good rhythm, no murmurous and in good health and cleared from DCM at that point in time.

How can a blood test tell you you dogs have no heart problems? I don't understand how that one would work...do they check for oxygen level or something?

So are all those dogs out of the orginal two bitches you got from the puppymill woman? Guess I am confused cause the dam of Enzo has your kennel name on it. Who is Storm out of...

 

[Toby'shuman]

I am confused about the blood test. My vet has told me that the only tests he can do (he doesnt have a Holter and the only place that has one is the Veterinary College in Barcelona and they won't do any tests unless there is a definite indication a dog is suffering from some kind of heart problem) is a measurement test which will tell him if the heart is enlarged and of course he can listen. If there is a test that can be done via bloodwork I would love to know what it is called so I can ask him about it.

 

[iceman]

Congratulations for an excellent weekend Georgie.. :emo1:

In order to be eligible to challenge for the C.A.C you need to be graded excellent. You can win a class but the judge does not need to grade you excellent.

Correct me if i am wrong but i am still new to showing out there and it is slightly more complicated than the UK.

You can win the class and also get excellent grading but the judge does not necessarily have to give you a C.A.C.


Our CKC rules for C.A.C is
In the champion contest the judges have the right to award the Champion Aptitude Certificate (C.A.C) to dogs of every recognized breed,aged 15 months and over.The judges have the right to award to only one male dog and one female dog in Intermediate,Open,Working & Champion class (a total of 8 C.A.C's) of every recognized breed that have been awarded the quality of excelent,and only if,in the judgment,the dog is of such excellent quality and the R.C.A.C (Reserve C.A.C) to the second male and female.


Our CKC requirement for Ch title is
In order for a dog to be able to acquire the title (Champion of Cyprus) must compete and get awarded, three C.A.C's in Cyprus in three dog shows under three different judges.
For those breeds subject to a working trial, an official test specific to this breed is required.(IPO1)


So, without an IPO title, a dog cannot be a champion no matter how many CAC's it wins.

 

[LindaH]

ha and yes. We finally have a DCM test available which doesn't bankrupt you. You have the blood test and if there are any abnormalities they will refer for a echo/holter but all of mine came back perfect. All dogs had good rhythm, no murmurous and in good health and cleared from DCM at that point in time.

How does a blood test tell you there are no heart abnormalties? You got me there?

Okay, so Storm is out of the first litter, but the dog that killed? or attacked? the puppy, right. V2 Newford Cranberry Fizz Storm/Ruby
(Champagne King x Emrichme Bermuda at Newford)

Then you have Enzo and Zara out of the same litter. Newfords Fame MonsterEnzo/ZaraNewfords just Dance
(Keyalas Dream Machine at Nytbonn x Emrichme Bermuda at Newford)

Then you have Buka at 7 months (Amazon Talk of the Devil x Emrichme Belgium at Newford)

So you have had three litters out of this one bitch, right? Whatever happened to the one that killed her puppies?

Okay, I think I am getting all this kind of straight now. Is Enzo out of the return mating you for the litter that was killed? Whew!!! Having a hard time figuring it all out.

Okay, wish I could see a better pic of Enzo? Got an updated one of Ruby?

Congrats on your wins, you must be proud!!!

Sorry, the one above wasn't meant to be posted yet. I lost it switching screens and it got posted before I was thru figuring dogs, questions out.

Dang, I meant to ask what is V1, V2 etc. and SG

 

[Georgie]

How can a blood test tell you you dogs have no heart problems? I don't understand how that one would work...do they check for oxygen level or something?

So are all those dogs out of the orginal two bitches you got from the puppymill woman? Guess I am confused cause the dam of Enzo has your kennel name on it. Who is Storm out of...

Storm and Enzo are both out of the same bitch, different sires. They may have come from a "puppy mill woman" but there is nothing wrong with them (good health results) and their pedigrees are sound. Here we are able to attach our kennel name to a dogs pedigree name, Her KC name when registered was Emrichme(breeders kennel name) Bermuda at Newford (my kennel) She obviously wasnt bred here but resides here if you get my drift.


Below is taken from the Dobermann Breed council website, but the theory behind it is fairly simple. With humans when you are admitted in to A&E with a suspected heart attach they will run a blood test looking for your Troponin I levels, elevated levels of this is an indication that there has been some form of heart strain or trauma. If I have read it correctly it is like a stress hormone released by the heart muscles. This has transferred over to the Dobermanns with Bitten Johnson using the same idea and research has shown that dogs with elevated levels early on will indicate early signs of DCM. By doing this yearly it will identify hopefully the onset of DCM long before even a holter will be able to pick up on tiny chemical changes in a dog.


“Dobermann Cardiac TROPONIN I (cTnI) Testing Scheme”

The Dobermann Breed Council has for many years supported the ‘Protect Study’ for Dobermans over five years and up to nine years of age. This has now stopped recruiting or screening but those Dobermanns still in the study are being followed up until October 2011.

At the DBC Health Day Seminar on the 20/02/2011 reference was made to a Troponin I test which could be made at two years old, at the DBC meeting the following week it was agreed that we should investigate the options of utilising this method with Liverpool University. Recently, Gerhard Wess and his group in Germany identified that cardiac Troponin I levels correlated well with echocardiographic status of Dobermanns.

At the Dobermann Breed Council meeting on 25/06/2011 it was unanimously agreed to establish a “Dobermann Cardiac TROPONIN I (cTnI) Testing Scheme” at the request of the DBC in conjunction with Liverpool University and the only UK laboratory which commercially run this test.
A simple blood sample can be taken by your vet and submitted to the elected laboratory for testing the result will indicate if your Dobermann has a normal value cTnI level or an increased level. If the results come back with an increased level of cTnI than normal the next step would be to get an Echo and Holter so that screening is more focused. It is important that Troponin I (cTnI) testing should be done annually, it is a relatively inexpensive test.

It was also agreed that the DBC will pay up to £50 max towards the cost of each Dobermann tested whilst funds are available in return for making the test results available for publication on the DBC website, the owner should also be a member of a Breed Council member club.

Due to the test being recommended from 12 months of age this is perfect for breeders to adopt as ‘Best Practice’ in their breeding programmes.

It was also mentioned at the Health Seminar that Prof. Jorgen Koch of Copenhagen University initially
showed that some Dobermann pups had juvenile DCM and a high lactate. Other pups with only a slightly increased lactate developed DCM several years later. Ms Bitten Jonsson has followed these Dobermanns over their lives and documented cause of death. It is important to see whether lactate is a marker of actual or future DCM in UK dogs, a lactate test must be done immediately a blood sample has been taken, with this in mind the DBC agreed to arrange for Lactate and Troponin testing at a Breed Club show, details to be announced at a later date.

 

[Georgie]

How does a blood test tell you there are no heart abnormalties? You got me there?

Okay, so Storm is out of the first litter, but the dog that killed? or attacked? the puppy, right. V2 Newford Cranberry Fizz Storm/Ruby
(Champagne King x Emrichme Bermuda at Newford)

Then you have Enzo and Zara out of the same litter. Newfords Fame MonsterEnzo/ZaraNewfords just Dance
(Keyalas Dream Machine at Nytbonn x Emrichme Bermuda at Newford)

Then you have Buka at 7 months (Amazon Talk of the Devil x Emrichme Belgium at Newford)

So you have had three litters out of this one bitch, right? Whatever happened to the one that killed her puppies?

Okay, I think I am getting all this kind of straight now. Is Enzo out of the return mating you for the litter that was killed? Whew!!! Having a hard time figuring it all out.

Okay, wish I could see a better pic of Enzo? Got an updated one of Ruby?

Congrats on your wins, you must be proud!!!

Sorry, the one above wasn't meant to be posted yet. I lost it switching screens and it got posted before I was thru figuring dogs, questions out.

Dang, I meant to ask what is V1, V2 etc. and SG

haha! trust me.. i find the whole showing over there confusing too!
V1 - is excellent 1
v2 - is Excellent 2
SG - is Sehr Gut (very promising)

Okay, so Storm is out of the first litter, but the dog that killed? or attacked? the puppy, right. V2 Newford Cranberry Fizz Storm/Ruby
(Champagne King x Emrichme Bermuda at Newford)

Yes, that is storm. his sire incidental is still alive and well at 10 years old.

Buka is out of Bracken, the bitch which lost the litter. Her 2nd litter was under strict supervision both my care and veterinary care. She was diagnosed with "eclampsia" which explained her behavior, because she had had this before she was on a calcium rich diet and supplemented from whelping and beyond. We had no further problems with her and she raised a litter of 6 with no problems, she was back in the show ring about 12 weeks later and won her class, qualifying for Crufts. I am showing Buka and a dog called Jasper from that litter, Jasper qualified for crufts first time out at 6 months old but his owner prefers to work him so i only get to borrow him from time to time.

Yes Enzo is out of the return mating.. the one if i recall correctly you said would be a waste of time and would never win anything . Enzo has his Junior Warrant title and is a very consistent winner in the UK in his classes.


The most recent pic of Ruby i have is this one. This was taken August last year.. Ideally want to do a new one at some point but its having the hands to take the photos and stack the dogs!

and this one.. which is what i do with her more!

And to Iceman, correct, if we were to continue to campaign Enzo in France he would need to have his FRENCH working titles, ZPT, IPO etc dont count.

 

[LindaH]

Yes Enzo is out of the return mating.. the one if i recall correctly you said would be a waste of time and would never win anything

I don't remember saying that, I deny it.

Been too long to remember, but I do remember saying that a pup wouldn't be worth keeping or something similar. Is that what you are talking about? But I was thinking it was the bitch Bracken as the mother that I was referring to not keeping a pup. I was trying to say, "even it it did show well, it probably wouldn't produce well." At the time, I thought the puppy mill women bred the bitches, but she bought them from a decent breeder or something, right?

How can you qualify for Crufts in only one show? It sounds like it is easy to get into Crufts.

Ruby looks good, for sure.

 

[lelise]

Beautiful dogs, it is wonderful to read your thread and see your excitement...it sounds like you love this! Would love to see some more working photos

 

[Georgie]

I don't remember saying that, I deny it.

Been too long to remember, but I do remember saying that a pup wouldn't be worth keeping or something similar. Is that what you are talking about? But I was thinking it was the bitch Bracken as the mother that I was referring to not keeping a pup. I was trying to say, "even it it did show well, it probably wouldn't produce well." At the time, I thought the puppy mill women bred the bitches, but she bought them from a decent breeder or something, right?

How can you qualify for Crufts in only one show? It sounds like it is easy to get into Crufts.

Ruby looks good, for sure.

ha. If only. Sometimes you get lucky, you need to place 1st-3rd in certain classes at a Champ show to qualify, I know some dogs who never qualify.
I qualified Ruby as a puppy and never managed it again.. not for the lack of trying mind!

The puppy-miller lady thing imported a bitch from a nice polish kennel and mated her to a dog who at the time was one of the top dogs in the UK.

Haha! Ruby is my princess! I love that dog more than the world it self, she is my heart dog. No matter what i try with her she does it with so much enthusiasm. She is by best friend, knows all my secrets, knows how to give me a perfect hug and is the most comfy thing in the world to cuddle to sleep at night. She comes to work with me a lot and the kids i look after love her too, i couldnt ask for a better best friend. the day she leaves me will be one where i will be inconsolable for weeks. I dread the day.

lol.. yes something like that, there are times i wish i had kept him and not given him to his owners but I dont think he would have done as well with me as with him, they are a fantastic team to watch. I have an enourmous sense of pride when they win!

 

[Georgie]

Beautiful dogs, it is wonderful to read your thread and see your excitement...it sounds like you love this! Would love to see some more working photos

hehe.. I put some more up in the working section. For forum gnomes bite at my ankles if i put them in the wrong places!!

http://www.dobermantalk.com/obedien...ings-nommings-all-things-fun-image-heavy.html

 

[Megs]

Way to go, Georgie; keep up the good work :nicejob:

Seems these days I can't even get off my island for a dog show; forget another country! Nice to see you're really getting out there and putting a lot into it. Well done