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Big Lil pup
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Hey bug...

"Boy, do I wish HavenMae would show up again--I also hope that they got her down to Texas A & M -excellent clinic and clinicians there associated with the vet school."

I PM'd him a few days ago. No response. Ugh.... I have a sinking feeling that this crap went downhill real fast. I really hope not.

John
Portland OR
 

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Hey bug...

"Boy, do I wish HavenMae would show up again--I also hope that they got her down to Texas A & M -excellent clinic and clinicians there associated with the vet school."

I PM'd him a few days ago. No response. Ugh.... I have a sinking feeling that this crap went downhill real fast. I really hope not.

John
Portland OR
I fear things aren't good also, I hope we're all wrong!! She's just a baby and her dad obviously adores her
 

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OP's Been Back

Hey bug...

"Boy, do I wish HavenMae would show up again--I also hope that they got her down to Texas A & M -excellent clinic and clinicians there associated with the vet school."

I PM'd him a few days ago. No response. Ugh.... I have a sinking feeling that this crap went downhill real fast. I really hope not.

John
Portland OR
Sorry to read that the OP has not replied. It does look like they have returned to the forum, and have been reading. If you click on the OP's User Name...and the click on View Public Profile...it shows that they were reading the forums last evening at 9:19 p.m.

I wonder if they were trolling??:frown3:
 

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Discussion Starter #45
Haven Mae was walking on Mother's Day and playing in the yard and I noticed her stutter step like she short circuited or something for a minute but then she was fine. 10 minutes later it looked like she had stepped in a hole and lost her footing but there was no hole. This week my gf walks her at night and she said she fell three times last night. My friend walks her and runs with her during the day and he is very good with dogs as fat as attentiveness and handling and he says she has been fine. Well today I take her to work with me and we get to the house and the customers are petting her and she walks by me and she dropped straight down like she passed out. I mean it was all the sudden no staggering or nothing she dropped all the way to the ground and I heard her chin hit the ground and make that closing whop! Sound like when you get a uppercut and your mouth is open. Once she hit she popped back up and was all fine. The customer was outside and came in 30 minutes later and said she did it again. I've been watching her all day and she hasn't done it anymore but something is wrong. It was like your playing a string puppet and you cut the string that's how she fell. She had zero control of her muscles until she hit the ground. Scariest **** I've ever seen an animal do and I'm worried to death what could be wrong with her. Any info on this?


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Update:
First off let me apologize for the sudden disappearing act and leaving the situation open ended. I shouldn't have handled it like that but I did for a few reasons. I don't post on here every time there's an issue. I have a few posts from when Haven was young but then nothing until this most recent issue. We have been constantly back and forth to the vet for numerous things since she was 6 weeks old. It is very draining. We want her to just be a pup and us be the owners and all to just settle down and go smooth for a while. We've dealt with worms, ear mites, (both when we got her from the breeder) stomach infection, fractured paw, bouts of throwing up, two obstructions (PICA), a scare with sago palms, 7 weeks of trips for the ear cropping and now this: Haven starts fainting. As expected as soon as I posted the replies were "take her to the vet" This is always the answer on this site. Emotions run high and since people can't physically see what's going on it's "Take her to the vet" So as I was scheduled to see a vet anyway that day - I took her. He thought nothing of it. Said to control her environment and keep her calm and see what happens. Possibly she's getting excited. That wasn't what you guys wanted to hear. I wanted a better evaluation as well so off to another vet. Everyone on this site says it's DCM. We are straight tripping after reading up on DCM. My thoughts are preparing for the worst news and If something happens to Haven how the f*#$ do you tell a 8 year old this? So my girl is with her at the vet and I'm on pins and needles awaiting the news. Keep in mind here that we arent rolling in the dough and while alot of you don't bat an eye at a trip to the vet - it isn't like that for us. We just bought our first home and this is our second year here so as a family goes we are just getting started. I realize some of you are of the opinion "shouldn't get a pet if you can't afford one." To that I can only say that nobody expects to be at the vet every week with their pet if so most of you wouldn't have pets. So spare me the lecture. That being said I assure you that Haven Mae is the most spoiled and loved Doberman on the planet. (She gets only the best of the best at all times. We make it work. I don't know how but we do. So please do not think that we are skimping on any aspect where she is concerned. We have sacrificed alot for Haven because we want her to have the best life possible. I wouldn't have it any other way and I'm just shedding light on this for those that don't know and may develop an opinion thats not exactly true.) So when I get the call with the news from my girl about Haven I was really frustrated. The bloodwork came back fine. The EKG came back fine. The vet said other than our words describing what happened Haven is a healthy pup. So she left there with nothing more than she entered with. No answers. However we are free to go to A and M if we'd like to further pursue the issue. We do have a refferal for that. So again a trip to the vet and we are no better off than before. Here lies my main source of frustration. I feel that we have been let down by the veteranarians we have taken her to. Is it bad luck on our part I don't know. I do know that I know my pup better than anyone and I know when something is wrong. Ever since Haven was a puppy I've watched her very closely. Before our first vet visit i suspected something was wrong with her. I'm a picture taker and so naturally I have tons of videos of her from day 1. I showed the videos to a couple of vets who I feel didnt really look at them close. They would say she's just a pup or she was dreaming. I disagreed but who am I. More on the videos and that later. I'm hounded on here to "get her to a vet asap!!" by the majority. It's a life or death issue!!! Well here we are two vet appts later - still no answers and our girl is still with us. It's really frustrating. It's costly and to get zero answers well - what do you do? So I decided to try to see what triggers her to collapse. We are certain that she is unaware of it and that she is in no pain. We took her off of all treats and any food that she would get other than her 3 meals a day and milkbones. A week went by and no collapsing. The walker didn't walk her for that week either. The second week we went back to walking but only once during the day with the walker. Then that friday my girl gets home and is playing with her and she collapses three times. Once a total collapse the other two she acted like she was trying to sit down. Like her back legs would give out. Every afternoon when my girl would get home no matter what they did walk or no walk play in the back yard whatever Haven would collapse a couple of times. The walker checks on her and let's her out about 4 times a day. He has never seen her collapse or even stumble. The dude is spot on with dogs - like a dog whisperer so he's not missing it either. This is puzzling to us and him. So last week Haven was all rowdy in the kitchen and I decided to give her a pig ear (please refrain from schooling me) she absolutely loves them. About 30 seconds after giving her the pig earshe lays down to chew on it and I notice she kind of stops and her head goes to the side. I had told my girl to video all of her outings with her so we can catch this on video and I can see it as well as the vet. So Reghina grabs her phone next to her and gets a pretty shaky video because she was panicking. Havens not moving. She says her name Haven and eyes open up as she continues to eat the pig ear like nothing happened. Chomping on it in about 15 seconds later again Haven head goes limp. We say her name and she wakes up finishes eating the pig ear and go to lay on the couch. The night goes by and she was acting normal the next day goes by I stay home Haven acts normal. No fainting or anything. Keep in mind when I say collapse every time I've seen her she has been walking and will just hit the floor like she's out cold and get right back up as soon as she hits the floor. This time with the pig ear though it was more of a falling to sleep look. So after two days I decide to give Haven a pig ear against Reghinas suggestions. I' take out the pig ear Haven is dancing around excited because she loves them I gave her the pig ear she jumps up on the couch start crunching on it and 10 seconds later her head falls to the side and she's out. I have this on video. I'll post it. She Finished the pig ear and goes to sleep. Certainly the pig ears aren't doing it. The next day the walker comes over he gives her a pig ear about a minute into boom she's out. So we know that the pig ears at least trigger it. But the first time she was collapsing she had no pig ears or anything like that. So what is going on. I start looking at videos from when she was a puppy. I get a sense from some of these videos that this is been an issue from the beginning. I'll post the one of her in the pink sweater where it looks like she's looking at something far off and falls over After watching videos of dogs with narcolepsy this looks exactly like what Haven Mae has. I think she was only collapsing when my girl gets home and takes her out because she was so excited to see her. That's why she doesn't collapse with the walker. She loves him no doubt but she absolutely adores my girl and she must miss her more. She will be outback going to town on her rope spring and you would think she would get tired and fall out but she doesn't. She doesn't collapse hard-core 9000 miles an hour. Those pig ears though she super excited to get one and she lays down she's out cold until I say her name. So is this narcolepsy or is it a side effect of some other issue? The next time it happens I will check her gum color and see if it is pink. All in all Haven May is doing well. I guess narcolepsy is the best thing we can hope for that it is. I am very impressed by the concern a few of you have had and the private messages you have sent. This means a lot to us.I shouldn't judge the website as a whole based on just a couple of responses. We appreciate the concern and I will keep you updated on Haven Mae and any findings that we may uncover. Any advice from someone who had dealt with this is appreciated.



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Discussion Starter #46
Haven Mae was walking on Mother's Day and playing in the yard and I noticed her stutter step like she short circuited or something for a minute but then she was fine. 10 minutes later it looked like she had stepped in a hole and lost her footing but there was no hole. This week my gf walks her at night and she said she fell three times last night. My friend walks her and runs with her during the day and he is very good with dogs as fat as attentiveness and handling and he says she has been fine. Well today I take her to work with me and we get to the house and the customers are petting her and she walks by me and she dropped straight down like she passed out. I mean it was all the sudden no staggering or nothing she dropped all the way to the ground and I heard her chin hit the ground and make that closing whop! Sound like when you get a uppercut and your mouth is open. Once she hit she popped back up and was all fine. The customer was outside and came in 30 minutes later and said she did it again. I've been watching her all day and she hasn't done it anymore but something is wrong. It was like your playing a string puppet and you cut the string that's how she fell. She had zero control of her muscles until she hit the ground. Scariest **** I've ever seen an animal do and I'm worried to death what could be wrong with her. Any info on this?


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I'm posting the videos to my YouTube because they won't post here it gives me an error message.


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Big Lil pup
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Oh... I feel for you and your family. Not knowing can be the absolute worst. When are oldest was a young puppy, he became basically paralyzed. Nobody was sure what it was. Even the specialists were miffed. It took exploratory spinal surgery to figure it out and even then the prognosis was very poor. We refused to give up. We persevered and today, years later, we have a healthy happy senior.

I guess, that my point is that there are happy endings.

My best to you, your family and your pup And.... Thank you so much for getting back on and keeping us updated.

John
Portland OR
 

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Do you have any more videos of this particular behavior (Haven Mae appearing to pass out) to give us a link to?
 

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I posted some information about narcolepsy in dogs and said that I thought that there was a gene test for it. I went to VetGen's site because I thought that they were the gene testing lab that had the test available and posted again and I just found that the second post never showed up. So I'll repost the information again.

Stanford did a study some while back on narcolepsy and it was done on an available colony of Doberman Pinschers that were more or less local. In the course of the study they determined that it is genetic and also developed a gene test for it. Today this test is available through VetGen (a gene testing lab) Google VetGen for the web address--you can track tests available by breed and it looked like they now have narcolepsy tests available for three breeds.

I couldn't see any videos since I'm dial-up but the bottom line is that if you suspect narcolepsy perhaps the fastest, easiest and probably the least expensive way of finding out for sure would be to order the gene test swab kit and test her.

Having a dog with a condition that isn't getting diagnosed but is still producing symptoms is totally frustrating and I understand that and to say that I was horrified when I read your post catching us up on Haven Mae's problems and I discovered that the post I put up about there being a test for narcolepsy didn't show up is an understatement to say the least.

Not every vet knows about every test for every condition--and when it comes to things like the gene test for narcolepsy in Dobes I KNOW a lot of general practice vets have never heard of it. Hell, a lot of vets don't know about the gene test for vWD and that has been available for over 20 years. A couple of my favorite vets, over many years of Dobermans and other pure bred dogs are the two who told me when I first started seeing them that they relied on breeders and the conformation owners to keep them up to date on the newest information on breed specific medical problems including new test that show up on a regular basis.

Good luck--I sure hope that you can track the root of her problem down--at least you know now that you can test for narcolepsy and since it's a gene test you can get a positive yes or no to it. Judging from the information I have on "fainting goats" (caused be a type narcolepsy) victims evidently can live full lives even though sudden noises will cause them to faint.
 

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3R5JZ4Y6-g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W852c78wR70

Video: Narcoleptic dog drops unconscious at arrival of postman - Telegraph

https://www.animalinfo.com.au/fact_sheets/view/2/3/149/fs:Narcolepsy_in_Dobermans

I am SO thankful that she appears to be in good health other than the dropping episodes! I found some videos etc of narcoleptic dogs for you to look at. AS much as it's a pain in the neck for all of you, if it is narcolepsy, it could be far far worse.
 

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I took her to the vet Friday shortly after posting this. If this forum is for help and advice it's probably best to not call people liars just because they don't post what your expecting them too. I came to this forum for helpful advice.. Wheb I said I took her to the vet and you reply that it sounds like I didn't take her to the vet- it really rubs me the wrong way. The whole reason she was with me Friday is because I was already scheduled to take her to the vet friday afternoon. I agree it's very serious but the man with the degree didn't seem to think it was as serious as I'm reading here. So we are trying to find a specialist close by. I called the er we usually use an Sunday and no one answered for hours- found out they don't open till 5 pm. I'll keep the forum posted to any changes. We are north of Houston so any names of specialist in the Cypress area would be helpful.


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Do not trust your normal vet.
Our vet mis-diagnosed our girl, and when we finally found out what it was, she lasted 3 days.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE see a cardiologist NOW!!!
Dobermann's need a vet very familiar with the breed.
Good luck with your girl.
 

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You can see her fall here. She's not stumbling as in stepping in a hole. Her back legs are collapsing first then the body follows.

https://youtu.be/PmsMtoLyQdI




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First of all, I'm taking a bit of a liberty as I only know some of the posters here in real life, but trust me we really do understand how expensive and heartbreaking vet bills can be. My personal dog is a rescue, and I jokingly refer to him as "the lemon", but in reality he is an unending stream of compromises at the veterinarian due to his numerous health issues. All we can do is the best that we can do.

One thought might be to grab some more video of Haven, and/or combine all of your clips into a larger video. Write up a summary of what each clip is showing, date/time/circumstances. Send that along with your vet records over to TAMU and ask them what they think they would want to do for testing, if any, and for an estimate. That way you can go in with 1) cost awareness or 2) have a discussion about prioritizing due to budget. Maybe work with your insurance on a pre-authorization to see what you'd be responsible for as well?
 

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It looks like she is having small seizures to me. It wouldn't hurt to bring that up at an upcoming visit.
This is what I thought as well. I don't know how common epilepsy is in dobes, but as someone who has it myself, that's exactly what I thought.
 
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