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For all of you looking for a great breeder, I applaud you for taking the time and effort that thins out bad breeders. For this reason, I want to warn you of Shadeko Dobermans. Do not go to this breeder. The owner is very unstable and ripped me off by not returning my emails and keeping my $500 deposit. If anyone would like to have full access to the emails, please dont hesitate to request them.
 

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Brian, I am so happy you don't have one of my puppies. For you to do something like this absolutely proves to me you are not a good home, and I feel very lucky. You know you backed out on this puppy at the very last minute, the day of or day before you were supposed to pick him up, which you delayed for a few weeks. When you were here for the second time, the puppies were 5 weeks old. At the time you gave me a first pick and a second pick, I told you that you would most likely get at least your second pick. I also told you if you were not happy at that time you would receive your deposit back in full. You gave no indication that you were unnhappy, matter of fact just the opposite, if I remember correctly you wanted to look at the puppies one more time and I asked if something was wrong, you said no. I had no warning that you were unhappy with your second pick, you wanted my pick show puppy who went to a show home. You had no desire to show. So, at the last minute you backed out. This was all after I've turned down several people for him. You wanted your deposit back. Weeks later I ended up selling the puppy to a great home who has one of my dogs from nine years ago but for a few hundred dollars less than the 2000 price. At that late time your deposit is non refundable, if I had backed out, it would be a totally different story. You wouldn't have had to ask for it back. And you know I answered your emails, and we've spoken numerous times on the phone about this. I've discussed this whole situation with several breeders and all agreed with me. I might add this all occured six months ago, I can't help but wonder why you would come on here at this time with all kinds of accusations.
 

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Brian....

Before you come on this forum and make disparaging remarks about another DT member you better have your ducks in a row. This breeder has been a valued member and contributor here for quite some time and to my knowledge has never had a problem dropped on this forum's doorstep. I would not have a problem submitting a puppy application to her or having any financial dealings with her.
 

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A friend and neighbor purchased a puppy girl from Pat, probably from the same litter. She is on cloud nine with her girl and Pat went above and beyond in her dealings with her, including making arrangements to get the puppy to a city in another state for a direct flight to Seattle.

The breeder of at least one of my dogs has a non-refundable policy as well for buyers that back out.
 

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I have a question. Regardless of what happened, the OP did not get a puppy. Is it typical for a breeder to keep the ENTIRE deposit? Pat, you said that you sold the puppy a few weeks later and lost a few hundred dollars. I don't understand why the OP wouldn't have recieved at least part of his deposit back. I may be wrong, but it sounds like even though you sold the pup to someone else for less than what you would've sold him to the OP for, you ended up making MORE money than you would have originally because you kept the entire $500.00 deposit from the OP.
 

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I have a question. Regardless of what happened, the OP did not get a puppy. Is it typical for a breeder to keep the ENTIRE deposit? Pat, you said that you sold the puppy a few weeks later and lost a few hundred dollars. I don't understand why the OP wouldn't have recieved at least part of his deposit back. I may be wrong, but it sounds like even though you sold the pup to someone else for less than what you would've sold him to the OP for, you ended up making MORE money than you would have originally because you kept the entire $500.00 deposit from the OP.
Astra, you looking at more of the $$ amount than what the breeder had to payout to keep the puppy for a longer time due to the fact that the OP backed out. The breeder had more money in Food, ear care, shots, and everything else it takes to keep a puppy. Not like the puppy sat there waiting for a buyer not costing the breeder anything at all. So in the longer run the breeder probably lost $$ on the sale of the pup. As for the desposit, I don't know any breeder who doesn't have a fully NON- refundable deposit if the buyer backs out. Only refund is given is if the breeder backs out for some reason, that's my experiance anyway.
 

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Pat, I remember you told me about this guy and that he was trying to get pick puppy even though you were very clear from the start that the pick male was already spoken for for a serious show home. Some people say yes they understand, when really they think they can bully their way to what they want.

Brian sorry, but I didn't get a refund on a puppy I had put a deposit on one a few years back, but since I was the one that backed out I cut my losses and moved on. I instead got a very nice puppy from Pat who was nothing but upfront about her expectations on what my puppy purchase entailed and what choices I was to be given in picking a puppy.

To anyone looking to purchase a puppy, make sure you know what the breeder's priorities are. If they show their dogs they are going to want show quality dogs in show homes and pet quality in pet homes. I have heard of several breeders that have made the judgment call to sell to a home that SAYS they will show and then don't. I don't blame any breeder for being very firm that show pups go to show homes and pet puppies to pet homes. Some breeders have held on to their puppies much longer than they have wanted in order to wait for a show home for a nice puppy they just didn't have the heart to place in a pet home. Some breeders have also put some very nice show quality puppies into pet homes because the pet home was so great they didn't want to deny that puppy such a happy home.

Make sure before you give any breeder a deposit you are clear on what the litter was bred for and where you stand in the pecking order of puppies.

Pat you when things started to go wrong with Brian and he kept changing his mind and putting you off, you went with your instincts and decided that he wasn't the best fit for one of your puppies. Good for you! I think Retta here on DT just posted a story of how wrong things can go when you don't listen to your gut.
 

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I think that there are two sides to every story, and not knowing the OP, I can't speak to his motivation.

I will say that $500 is a lot of money, but it does seem to be the going rate for non refundable deposits. As long as it was clear then the OP seems to be out of luck and Pat is within her rights to keep it.

I have never taken deposits, but had 5 homes fall through for boys in my last litter.... wishy washy people that personally I'm glad didn't take one of my puppies. I'm reconsidering asking for a deposit for my upcoming litter, but won't take one till the litter is born and I am sure I will have a puppy for that home. I also won't take one until I meet with them and feel comfortable with them as a home.

It is too bad when stuff like this happens.
 

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$500 is a fair amount for a deposit on a $2000 puppy. A deposit holds a puppy for you. Great homes don't grow on trees, and no doubt great homes were turned away and recommended to other breeders for a puppy. So there is extra cost, puppy shots, food, time - as in time spent with you and then time spent with interviewing new homes, all over again.
 

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Brian,
I too am one of the breeders Pat spoke to about this at the time it was all happening, She did the same thing I would have done........ You backed out, there for you do not get your deposit back JMHO. Plus Pat gave you alot more chances then I would have .
And BTW i'm not just a breeder myself BUT I also own a bitch from Pat that we co own together and I can tell you Pat treats people fairly and will always help any of her puppy people in any way she can.
So Brian before you try to make trouble for a breeder sit down and look at the facts , Fact is you were NOT a reliable home with tons of red flags going up and you proved it by flip flopping around with your decision on the puppy until the day you backed out at the last minute .
**** So breeders out there Beware of Brian.****
 

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Brian,

You should be very sad, but not about losing a $500. deposit, but because you don't have a puppy from the litter you talk about. I have a girl Pat picked out for me and she is wonderful. You would have done extremely well with any puppy from that litter. I would do business with Pat again in a heart beat.

Bev and Ziva
 

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...Fact is you were NOT a reliable home with tons of red flags going up and you proved it by flip flopping around with your decision on the puppy until the day you backed out at the last minute .
**** So breeders out there Beware of Brian.****
If this is all fact, then how in the world was "Brian" ever approved for a home for one of these pups in the first place?
 

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If this is all fact, then how in the world was "Brian" ever approved for a home for one of these pups in the first place?
OK RFR let me try and make it simple for you to understand.. as many other breeder's will probably have had one or 2 buyers in their life that could sell snow to a snowman upon a 1st visit......only after a few talks and reading between lines you can pick up the red flags. And that would be Brian.:)
 

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OK RFR let me try and make it simple for you to understand.. as many other breeder's will probably have had one or 2 buyers in their life that could sell snow to a snowman upon a 1st visit......only after a few talks and reading between lines you can pick up the red flags. And that would be Brian.:)

Thank you for clarifying, in such a simplistic manner, too :)

So, it sounds like both you and Pat would NOT approve of this gentleman as a home for one of the pups, right? (Not saying you have any involvement in the litter--you were just listed as, er, moral support on the decision, I suppose.)

So, if you (general "you," as a breeder) do not feel comfortable selling a puppy to someone, whether that was an initial assessment--or occurred at some point down the line prior to delivery of the puppy--then you'd deny the sale, correct?

I mean, for the safety of the puppy, right?

So, if you (general you, again) deny a sale and decline delivery of said pup...then how do you (general you) not feel an ethical obligation to return a deposit?
 

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Deposits

I take deposits of $300 on puppies in my litter. I have a deposit agreement that clearly states the terms. I have each owner specify their first choice (i.e. black non show male). If a puppy fitting this description is not available at the time of final grading (10 weeks) I return the full deposit. If the preference is available and the new owners back out the deposit is non refundable. My contract states that emergency situations will be taken into consideration but I must be notified immediately and at my discretion I may return all or part of the deposit in that circumstance, after the puppy has been placed in a new home.

A deposit hold ones place in line. Just like earnest money on a house. You back out, you loose the deposit. I don't understand why people feel they deserve a deposit back when they back out on an agreement. Many times breeders pass up another home thinking the puppy is sold.

I don't know the particular's of Pat's situation but it sounds like this guy backed out on the deal. I don't think $500 is out of like to ask...if it was a problem he shouldn't have paid it if he was not 100% sure about taking the puppy.
 

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Thank you for clarifying, in such a simplistic manner, too :)

So, it sounds like both you and Pat would NOT approve of this gentleman as a home for one of the pups, right? (Not saying you have any involvement in the litter--you were just listed as, er, moral support on the decision, I suppose.)

So, if you (general "you," as a breeder) do not feel comfortable selling a puppy to someone, whether that was an initial assessment--or occurred at some point down the line prior to delivery of the puppy--then you'd deny the sale, correct?

I mean, for the safety of the puppy, right?

So, if you (general you, again) deny a sale and decline delivery of said pup...then how do you (general you) not feel an ethical obligation to return a deposit?
If I cancel the sale for any reason...ME, I, cancel it, I return the deposit. If that is that case then most likely I just want that person to go away. LOL

I have not gone that far because I screen my homes pretty darn good before I EVER talk money/deposit.
 

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I take deposits of $300 on puppies in my litter. I have a deposit agreement that clearly states the terms. I have each owner specify their first choice (i.e. black non show male). If a puppy fitting this description is not available at the time of final grading (10 weeks) I return the full deposit. If the preference is available and the new owners back out the deposit is non refundable. My contract states that emergency situations will be taken into consideration but I must be notified immediately and at my discretion I may return all or part of the deposit in that circumstance, after the puppy has been placed in a new home.

A deposit hold ones place in line. Just like earnest money on a house. You back out, you loose the deposit. I don't understand why people feel they deserve a deposit back when they back out on an agreement. Many times breeders pass up another home thinking the puppy is sold.

I don't know the particular's of Pat's situation but it sounds like this guy backed out on the deal. I don't think $500 is out of like to ask...if it was a problem he shouldn't have paid it if he was not 100% sure about taking the puppy.
Bold mine.

OP invited folks to contact him to read the emails. That might shed some light on who actually backed out.

Just as a general rhetorical, though, I'm still wondering about that question I posed: If at some point a breeder sees "red flags" or just gets that hinky vibe and then no longer feels comfortable placing a pup with someone, do they then keep the deposit from said person?
 
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If this is all fact, then how in the world was "Brian" ever approved for a home for one of these pups in the first place?
Some people are great talkers, and can fool ya. The more breeders some talk to the better they get at giving you great answers.

HOME CHECKS. VERY TELLING. No one gets a puppy form me without one (Unless I know you already) :)
 
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