Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums banner

1 - 20 of 60 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 2 year old Dobie boy who I have had for over a year now. Within his first year, I was his 4th owner. I have just moved to a new place with roommates who do not get up as early as I. I can’t seem to stop his high pitch bark/cry when I leave. I usually keep a shock collar on him when I leave but this high pitch bark goes undetected by the collar and does not give him a reprimanding shock. So I have had to resort to putting a muzzle on him also. I also have to keep him in a crate to keep him from banging/pawing at the door when I leave. Is this inhumane? How do I keep him from doing all of these bad behaviors and keep my roommates happy? When I am home I work with him, using a spray bottle and telling him “No” but it seems to not work when I’m on my way out the door. Any help?
 

·
sufferin succotash
Joined
·
9,168 Posts
PLEASE do not shock him, spray him or muzzle him, especially if you're not home. Never, ever leave a muzzle on a dog unattended. This only fuels his anxiety.

Have you ever worked with a trainer/behaviorist for his anxiety? Here's the link: http://www.dacvb.org/resources/find/
 

·
Luv-The-Nub
Joined
·
1,058 Posts
I second a board certified behaviorist! Also, daycare may be something to check in to. Using negative reinforcement is obviously getting nowhere. I would stop what you are doing and seek a professional.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,681 Posts
Yes what you are doing is cruel. Personally I would see if he could stay with one of your roommates when you leave. I suggest a trainer/behaviorist. What do you leave for him to do? Do you leave a nice meaty bone for him to chew or something like that to distract him? How long are you gone? Take him daycare if you can't leave him at home. This sounds like a horrible situation for the dog, a muzzle, a shock collar, crated, come on doesn't that sound terrible to you?
 

·
u mad?
Joined
·
6,476 Posts
So he has anxiety over you leaving and to fix it you shock him and now muzzle him? Ouch :[

Have you tried anything else?
I worked at a daycare and we had a few dogs that came in due to their separation anxiety. They LOVED daycare and flourished there.

Also, what do you d owith him when you're home? Walking? Training? Games?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
I think dobermans in general a)need a ton of exercise until they get older to feel "normal", b) like to be around people/their owners as much as possible, and c) dislike being left to their own devices w/ nothing to do/play w/ - SO going by all that it sounds like your dog is miserable.

I work from home so my dog gets very upset when I do have to leave for periods of time. She gets diarrhea many times when I'm gone for a week on the road and is left alone (in a 220 sq/ft room, not crate) or at a doggy day care w/ many dogs she doesn't know.

I would recommend getting up 45 minutes earlier and taking your dog on a long walk/jog, maybe throwing a ball to him over and over again getting him super tired so he sleeps most of the day. See if you can get a dog walker to take him out for a half hour in the middle of the day to break up the monotony. What about a doggy day care??
 

·
Owned by Dobes since 1975
Joined
·
30,675 Posts
i just adopted a young male with seperation anxiety, first time I have dealt with this issue. I have noticed that with all the exercise he is getting now that he is much easier to settle down already, but there is no way he is ready to be left alone yet.

these dogs NEED tons of exercise for their brains and bodies.

Fore those of you who do not have experience with young doberman, especially the males...........do not get one unless you can give them what they need.

for first time dobe wanna be owners, check into adopting one that is already mature.

I hope you can get the help you need in order to keep your boy happy and healthy.

Hugz to your wild child!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,009 Posts
I have a 2 year old Dobie boy who I have had for over a year now. Within his first year, I was his 4th owner. I have just moved to a new place with roommates who do not get up as early as I. I can’t seem to stop his high pitch bark/cry when I leave. I usually keep a shock collar on him when I leave but this high pitch bark goes undetected by the collar and does not give him a reprimanding shock. So I have had to resort to putting a muzzle on him also. I also have to keep him in a crate to keep him from banging/pawing at the door when I leave. Is this inhumane? How do I keep him from doing all of these bad behaviors and keep my roommates happy? When I am home I work with him, using a spray bottle and telling him “No” but it seems to not work when I’m on my way out the door. Any help?
^^^^ You don't need a board certified behaviorist...like it would really happen anyway or you could change your ill mannered ways enough !!
IMPO, you are clearly unfit, to have a dobe, at this point in time. (your story wants to make, this DAD cry...for your dog)
Please, STOP all the BS techniques, your dobe is too smart & loving, for all the CRAP you see the need to dish out daily.
- let him sleep with a roommate in their bed
- or REHOME, this POOR boy Apollo ASAP...find the 5th owner & give this boy, the life he deserves / make it right, for him


Is this inhumane?
Yes, you are Cassandra&Apollo.
 

·
u mad?
Joined
·
6,476 Posts
You don't need a board certified behaviorist...like it would really happen anyway or you could change your ill mannered ways enough !!
IMPO, you are clearly unfit, to have a dobe, at this point in time. (your story wants to make, this DAD cry...for your dog)
Please, STOP all the BS techniques, your dobe is too smart & loving, for all the CRAP you see the need to dish out daily.
- let him sleep with a roommate in their bed
-or REHOME, this POOR boy Apollo ASAP...find the 5th owner & give this boy, the life he deserves / make it right, for him
I think it's a little selfish to ask the roommates to let him sleep with them. He is her dog, not her roommates' dog. I also think you're overreacting just a little bit.

Also, while not crate training has kind of worked for you it's not really an option for everybody. For example, while my dog doesn't put his mouth on anything he's not supposed to while I"m watching him, I'm not going to risk his well-being by leaving him uncrated just to find out if he'll be okay with the freedom. That's just my dog. Dogs with separation anxiety can do some MAJOR damage to the area they're stuck in and, in turn, to them self.

I think a behaviorist and/or trainer who has experience with things like this is a great idea and being that the OP hasn't responded we don't know if that's a route that she will take or not. Being that this dog has been in four homes already it would be much better for the dog to stay in his home now and be worked with than just to get passed on again. Separation anxiety is an issue that can be worked through. Just because she's made some stupid decisions regarding this dog doesn't mean that she won't make the right ones. Not everybody knows the right options available. My neighbors were like that. They took TERRIBLE care of their dogs because it's all they knew and what they believed was correct. A little bit of polite (really) talk on my part to help enlighten them and they started changing their ways.

So yes, while I may have to eat my words pending the OP's next response... for now I think you're overreacting.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,463 Posts
Your poor dog has had a rough start in life thus far- 4 homes in 2 years is quite sad. First of all thank you for coming here and trying to get help. I think in your heart of hearts you must know that what you are doing isn't right or good for your boy or else you wouldn't be seeking help.

I see that you are located in San Diego county. I am going to suggest that you contact a member of the Aztec Doberman Pinscher Club of San Diego Aztec Doberman Pinscher Club of San Diego and see if they can recommend a behavioralist that they work with. The Aztec Doberman Pinscher Club also has a Doberman rescue and I am sure that they deal with dogs that have the same issues that your boy does on a frequent basis. I would tell them everything that is going on with your boy and seek their guidance and help. I say this because I think if things continue the way that they are going that your boy is going to end up possibly being rehomed again. If that were to happen, Aztec is the Doberman rescue that I would suggest that you contact to surrender your boy. I am not saying that is what is going to happen and I truly hope that it doesn't. I think the goal here is to help your dog with the issues that he is having so that he and you can have a wonderful and comfortable life.

Some great suggestions have already been given to you. PLEASE listen to sam&macksmom's post "PLEASE do not shock him, spray him or muzzle him, especially if you're not home. Never, ever leave a muzzle on a dog unattended. This only fuels his anxiety." I definitely think that due to your boy's history that he is going to need professional help so please go about finding a good behavioralist ASAP. I think that it will be beneficial to the BOTH of you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,784 Posts
^^^^ You don't need a board certified behaviorist...like it would really happen anyway or you could change your ill mannered ways enough !!
IMPO, you are clearly unfit, to have a dobe, at this point in time. (your story wants to make, this DAD cry...for your dog)
Please, STOP all the BS techniques, your dobe is too smart & loving, for all the CRAP you see the need to dish out daily.
- let him sleep with a roommate in their bed
- or REHOME, this POOR boy Apollo ASAP...find the 5th owner & give this boy, the life he deserves / make it right, for him


Is this inhumane?
Yes, you are Cassandra&Apollo.
Are you kidding me???? The OP comes on asking for help and this is the kind of reply she gets! How would you know from this post that she would not seek out a behaviorist or change her methods? Thank you to those who have offered her constructive advice and thanks, Astra, for providing her the link to Aztec.

Jan, who lives with a Dobe with severe separation anxiety and knows the frustration in trying to deal with it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,264 Posts
I agree that a shock collar can do more harm than good if it is not used properly, it can make his problem worse, as well as the muzzle. I get the sense that this is your first Doberman. Dobermans are an intelligent breed and need more than just physical exercise. They also need a lot of mental exercise as well.

Being that you are his 4th owner I don't blame him for having separation anxiety. I recommend a behaviorist as the level of his anxiety is probably beyond what you can handle by yourself. When you address separation anxiety you have to know what you are doing and confident.

In the mean time in your process of finding a behaviorist I suggest leaving for a few seconds at a time and returning. When you walk back into your place don't even address him, the same goes when you leave. Every time you leave and he is making progress with not whining add a few seconds/minutes and return. Timing is EVERYTHING, if you come back and address him with petting and cooing or giving him treats then you are rewarding his behavior. When you come home ignore him until he has calmed down, also before you leave if you are paying attention to him right before you leave you are escalating his anxiety. Before you leave ignore him 10 min prior. When you leave you can also try to putting frozen canned dog food in a kong to keep him occupied. Or hiding treats for him to find around the place.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,230 Posts
Just to add, in case you need more of an explanation than just "don't do it", the reason a shock collar is particuarly bad in this situation (not trying to go into Ecollar in other situations), but consider this from the dogs point of view... He is CLEARLY highly stressed when you leave. Now, you aren't just leaving him, but when you aren't around he's also getting shocked. That's not gonna help his anxiety level at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,822 Posts
Have you thought about leaving him for just a few minutes, coming right back so he knows you will return. Maybe do this several times a day and in the evening. Maybe lengthen each separation period by fifteen minutes.

My heart breaks for this boy and I'm glad you are seeking out help. Please be extra patient. He sees you as his security.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
I thought about it again...because I will be taking a new job in the future where I will be working about 25 minutes from my home and be gone from approximately 715 - 530 every day. There will be some days (maybe on average once a week) where I will be able to work from home, and there will be some days I will be on the road visiting clients and will be able to stop at my home for 30 minutes to an hour to break up the monotony of my dog being alone....in other words I know its tough to arrange schedules for your pet - BUT it is necessary. My plan is to get up early enough on clear days and take my dog for a run - I typically run w/ her 3-3.5 miles, and while it will SUCK for me - I will do it for her, and she is NOT a morning dog, so I know this will have her sleeping until around 1-2pm minimum. I intend to leave some toys for her to mess w/ and will also have a dog walker come on the days my wife or I will not be home w/ her. Dog walkers charge anywhere from $15-40 depending on the type of visit - expensive I know, and not in everyone's budget. We have found a doggy day care that we can bring her to for $30 a day ALL day, a better bang for the buck, but much more stressful. I also have a family member who is retired who is an avid dog lover, owns a dog, and would probably be willing to come by once a week as well. All this adds up - will probably cost me $250-$300 additional a month...a car payment more or less!

BUT, I love my dog and I can afford it and I will do it. You have to ask yourself if you can do the same, or formulate some other plan, but dobermans are not the type of breed to just be left to their own devices all day everyday like a lab or bulldog. It will cause behavioral problems and make them unhappy and make you unhappy too because you'll have to deal with them!

As soon as I get home I'll have to entertain her as well - another jog, a long walk minimum, maybe throw the ball, some mental training/stimulation too - roll over, sit, paw, catching treats, fetching etc. Mental stimulation gets them "tired" as well. HELL - there are times I'm on the road where I've driven from Massachusetts to Maine and back again for work and guess what? I bring her w/ me - better than being home alone.

I only posted again because I didn't want you to get depressed - YOU CAN DO IT, you just need to think outside the box, put a schedule/plan together, and stick to it as best you can - I know my Zora likes routine and breaking the routine causes stress too.

good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,009 Posts
Are you kidding me???? The OP comes on asking for help and this is the kind of reply she gets! How would you know from this post that she would not seek out a behaviorist or change her methods? Thank you to those who have offered her constructive advice and thanks, Astra, for providing her the link to Aztec...............
^^^^ No...Just pointing out my personal opinion...that needed to be said...minus the sugar coating.
Use of an unsupervised shock collar, is like giving a young child a lighter and a pack of smokes, and parent takes off for work.
- just hope the house isn't burnt to the ground, when adult gets home

Lots of good advice, from many...maybe OP can digest the diverse views...and take the appropiate steps, in line with the best interests of her dobe Apollo.
- and report back, some implemented directions (action plan) & outcome solutions

***************************************************************************

The Shocking Truth - Facts About Shock Collars Shock Collar Use - John's Natural Dog Training Company | The Truth About E-Collar Use
I feel it is not sufficient for me to just merely point out the obvious. Shock collars are designed to cause pain and therefore compliance through pain; commonly described as "getting the dogs attention". And while many detractors simply use the term "inhumane", I won't. That portrayal does not say enough. Instead, I feel it is better for me to share my many years of experience in dealing with the results of the use of shock collars. I decided it was best for me to provide you with the outcome of a few of the hundreds of actual cases I have personally witnessed which have resulted in physical, psychological and social harm.
A beloved pet that has been ill-treated either psychologically or socially by the use of shock collar training is often subsequently lost to a shelter, a rescue or euthanasia. I have helped too many clients make the unfortunate decision of having to euthanize their beloved dog, or give the dog back to the breeder only to spend the rest of its life confined for its own safety or that of others.

The problem with shock http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/TheProblemWithShock.pdf
It isn’t that shock collar training doesn’t work, because it does. The question is at what price? Some extremely skilled trainers may be able to offset some of the problems shock collars can cause. However, shock collars are for sale at almost every pet store making them readily accessible to the general public. A shock collar can potentially lead to very serious problems if not managed by a skilled trainer. There are a multitude of other powerful training options including obedience, behavior management, and positive reinforcement.
Logistical issues - For effective shock collar training superb timing is needed, a skill that even very few professional trainers possess........
Side Effects - The primary reason shock collars are effective in stopping behavior is because they hurt. The problem is that when you train with pain you have unwanted side effects. These side effects are called fallout. Murray Sidman, a famous behavior analyst, wrote an entire academic text on the topic which those looking for a thorough exploration can read (Coercions and its fallout). Fallout is when we use shock that will be associated with both the trainer and the training process causing stress for the animal. That stress can then be associated with the behaviors we are training, with the equipment we are using, the training field and of course with the trainer.
Stress - The bottom-line is that shock can cause stress.....A dog who is shocked for several different behaviors may go into a state of shut down, or a global suppression of behavior. Owners may mistakenly assume the dog is now “trained” because the dog is suddenly very quiet and not doing anything. In reality this dog is afraid to do anything. The ultimate step of the global suppression of behavior is learned helplessness. This occurs when the dog fails to do anything, curls into a ball, and gives up. Many who work with rescue dogs have seen the traumatic and long lasting effects of learned helplessness.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,784 Posts
^^^^ No...Just pointing out my personal opinion...that needed to be said...minus the sugar coating. Certainly everyone is allowed their opinion, but responses like yours generally drive people away...so, tell me, how does that help Apollo?? Providing the OP the links to the negative effects with the use of the shock color would have been a good first choice rather than calling her an "unfit Doberman owner" right off the bat IMHO!
Use of an unsupervised shock collar, is like giving a young child a lighter and a pack of smokes, and parent takes off for work.
- just hope the house isn't burnt to the ground, when adult gets home

Lots of good advice, from many...maybe OP can digest the diverse views...and take the appropiate steps, in line with the best interests of her dobe Apollo. Yes, thankfully there was some good advice from many WITHOUT the need to be nasty!
- and report back, some implemented directions (action plan) & outcome solutions

***************************************************************************
My responses in red.

Jan
 

·
Luv-The-Nub
Joined
·
1,058 Posts
I understand where you are coming from Marieldobes, but I think beaumont was simply upset and perhaps frustrated with such cruel behavior. IT IS COMPLETELY INHUMANE TO CAGE A DOG WITH A SHOCK COLLAR ON, considering a muzzle to boot! If someone did this to a child in a play pen, the child would be removed from the home. It's wrong and just plain mean. I am glad the OP has come seeking advice, it just sucks that it is at the expense of this poor dog.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,665 Posts
My responses in red.

Jan
Thanks, Marieldobes, my feelings exactly. When someone bothers to take the time to join the forum and is asking for help, they should be treated with respect. People who truly love this breed should try to help.

OP, I don't have experience with seperation anxiety, but I wish you luck, and please take into consideration the constructive recommendations posted. In addition, thank you for trying to help this poor dog who has been bounced around from home to home.

The only thing I can contribute, is most all Dobermans will benefit from both physical exercise and mental exercise. If possible, I would suggest a long walk, jogging or biking before leaving in the am. Providing the dog is over 18 months biking or jogging are great ways to exercise and the dogs really love it. I bike my two often together. Another way would be to let the mature dog wear a backpack with a couple 1 litter filled water bottles on each side of the pack on morning walks. This is a working breed and they love to work. In closing all Dobermans will greatly benefit from Obedience classes.

I would be happy to discuss the collars I use when biking.
 
1 - 20 of 60 Posts
Top