Royal canin vs N& D farmina
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I deleted your other thread that asked this same question.
Of those two options, I'd personally feed Royal Canin, as that company meets the WSAVA standards for food. I feed Proplan for the same reason. I like to feed foods from a company with a long history of extensive testing on food and a history of producing studies published in peer reviewed journals on nutrition.
Of those two options, I'd personally feed Royal Canin, as that company meets the WSAVA standards for food. I feed Proplan for the same reason. I like to feed foods from a company with a long history of extensive testing on food and a history of producing studies published in peer reviewed journals on nutrition.
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I fed Eukanuba to my boy as a pup and he did really well on it. Our breeder still recommends Eukanuba when the puppies come home. My son's Dobe puppy is currently being fed Royal Canin and at 6 months has thrived it. BTW...He feeds RC partially because his father in law is a vet and he can get it at cost. I also now feed Pro Plan to my almost 7 yo with good success.
My Opinion: If you end up feeding Famina N&D, You should probably steer clear of their much touted grain free line until you have had a chance to research the potential risks associated with grain free kibble and the increased incidence of DCM (Dilated cardiomyopathy) in dogs. I used to feed my Dobe Acana (the Meadowlands formula) until all the questions regarding grain free kibble started to pop up. Although, I am not totally convinced that there is a correlation in Dobermans per se, DCM is such an issue in this breed that I won't risk it.
N&D also makes grain inclusive lines, but they are still expensive.
John Lichtwardt
Portland OR
My Opinion: If you end up feeding Famina N&D, You should probably steer clear of their much touted grain free line until you have had a chance to research the potential risks associated with grain free kibble and the increased incidence of DCM (Dilated cardiomyopathy) in dogs. I used to feed my Dobe Acana (the Meadowlands formula) until all the questions regarding grain free kibble started to pop up. Although, I am not totally convinced that there is a correlation in Dobermans per se, DCM is such an issue in this breed that I won't risk it.
N&D also makes grain inclusive lines, but they are still expensive.
John Lichtwardt
Portland OR
I looked at the Farmina N & D for someone who had already started feeding it. I was less than thrilled for some of the same reasons that some of the newer kibbles (ones that I'd actually heard of--I knew nothing about Farmina and their products) I'm not thrilled with some of the newer kibbles that often seem to me to use as selling points a perception that thinks that have become popular in human nutrition (think of "super foods" which often include a lot of things that have not been established as valuable to do nutrition.) Things like pomagranite. blueberries etc--they give an advertising boost but it remains to be seen if they really improve nutrition or digestability for a dog.
So I've fed either Purina Pro Plan as my go to diet for the dogs for many years now--and have been very happy with the results I get with the Salmon, Chicken of Sport 30/20 formula.
dobebug
So I've fed either Purina Pro Plan as my go to diet for the dogs for many years now--and have been very happy with the results I get with the Salmon, Chicken of Sport 30/20 formula.
dobebug
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Popeye (6 months) also just made the switch to Pro Plan a few days ago. He was on RC. No problem swapping kibbles. So... One more PPP dog. It will make it easier when I have him. (frequently! LOL) No more separate foods for the two dogs. I've already started adding the same "extras" to his kibble that McCoy gets. It's really nice to have one more dog with no food issues.
John Lichtwardt
Portland OR
John Lichtwardt
Portland OR
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Between those options, I would choose Royal Canin. I currently feed Royal Canin and I'm happy with it. My dogs have great energy, their coats/skin and eyes look great (no dry or itchy skin, no eye goop), no bad breath (although I do also brush their teeth), and they have solid, consistent stools.
I think Royal Canin must also have exceptional palatability among dog foods because my dogs always act like I'm giving them a bowl of treats. They get really excited for meals. Truthfully, they both have pretty good appetites in general, but I've fed various brands here and there and they're noticeably less interested in others. Could just be coincidence, of course.
I think Royal Canin must also have exceptional palatability among dog foods because my dogs always act like I'm giving them a bowl of treats. They get really excited for meals. Truthfully, they both have pretty good appetites in general, but I've fed various brands here and there and they're noticeably less interested in others. Could just be coincidence, of course.
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I switched all our dogs to Farmina N&D and I'm thrilled with everything, their coats, stools, and energy level. I even switched our cat to the feline variety. I love the fact that the ingredients are non GMO. Veterinarians are the least knowledgeable when it comes to nutrition unless it's their specialty. Personally I think Royal Canin is crap. Nutri Source has some good varieties too, just make sure you include grains.
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The main thing with dobes is to avoid high protein/low fat after they are full sized. My vet with my first dobe (in 1991) bugged me about feeding lamb and rice because he thought it was too high in fat. We took her off it onto a higher protein and her coat got dry and brittle. So I put her back on lamb and rice and never had another episode. Four years ago, we adopted a 10 year old brown male (dad went into assisted living) who came with washed out color and very brittle fur. We put him on the lamb and rice and his coat became soft and shiny in about a month. Last year we adopted a Black and Tan mix and had similar results. The feed formula was recently changed, and I noticed it is much drier, so now they get a dollop of coconut oil with their kibble. They think that is just fine.
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I forgot to add that an earlier rescue (2011) came to me on a diet of sweet potato based kibble. I have never smelled a more foul smelling excrement. She too, thrived on lamb and rice. (Nutranuggets, in case you wanted to know). I avoid corn since it is terrible for their gut.
My experience with any kind of lamb based kibble was entirely differerent than yours has been. I've talked about in posts on feeding several times.
Back when the first lamb based kibbles showed up they were touted as the answer to everything for dogs who were thought to possibly have food allergies. I think the first one was lamb and rice--I tried it on the two Dobes I had at the time (periodically I try new formulas that are getting rave reviews just to see what kind of response I get).
The results were not at all good. First of all it only took about three weeks on the lamb and rice before their coats started losing the shine and going dull. Then for the next couple of months their stool deteriorated--from normally smallish firm poops to soft, then cow pie consistency and ultimate to outright diarrhea.
We went back to the diet they'd been on before the experiment--can't even remember what it was--by what was once a major kibble manufacturer who has long since been out of business--purchased by one of the the now big companies.
15 or so years later I noticed that there was a different lamb based kibble on the market--lamb and pea--that time I tried it with two different Dobes but with virtually the same result--first a dull dry looking coat and then stools that went from normal to diarrhea and that time they both started having problems with weight--had to keep upping the quantity of food given to keep their weight in anything like show condition.
The most recent attempt to see if all the lamb products were going to do the same thing I tried someones lamb and lentil combo. This time there were three Dobes and an Australian Shepherd. One of the Dobes had instant diarrhea so I put him back on the Proplan Chicken and Rice he'd been eating for about 5 years. The other two Dobes went through the same coat deterioration from shiney to dull and dry looking and then weight loss and finally the softening of stools over time to diarrhea. The Aussie? The Aussie who would eat anything (or so I thought) said it wasn't food and he was moving out if I didn't do something about that. He evidently was willing to hold out as long as it took but I couldn't stand watching him not eat for three days (this was the Aussie who loved food and was on an eternal diet because Aussies's are such easy keepers most adults are fat.
A year or so ago I may have gotten some insight into part of the issue with lamb from a study on digestablity that MeadowCat posted. Of all the common meat proteins found in dog foods lamb is at the very bottom of the list. Fish is at the very top. Fowl is second in line. Then beef. Pork is rarely used as a protein for dog or cat food and I found a slightly different study about digestability which ranked lamb at the bottom, fish first, fowl second, pork third (with the note that it was, however rarely used in dog or cat food) and beef fourth.
The digestability issue would account for most of what I observed.
Just sayin' I do know people who have had great luck feeding dogs lamb based foods but it sure w asn't my experience.
dobebug
Back when the first lamb based kibbles showed up they were touted as the answer to everything for dogs who were thought to possibly have food allergies. I think the first one was lamb and rice--I tried it on the two Dobes I had at the time (periodically I try new formulas that are getting rave reviews just to see what kind of response I get).
The results were not at all good. First of all it only took about three weeks on the lamb and rice before their coats started losing the shine and going dull. Then for the next couple of months their stool deteriorated--from normally smallish firm poops to soft, then cow pie consistency and ultimate to outright diarrhea.
We went back to the diet they'd been on before the experiment--can't even remember what it was--by what was once a major kibble manufacturer who has long since been out of business--purchased by one of the the now big companies.
15 or so years later I noticed that there was a different lamb based kibble on the market--lamb and pea--that time I tried it with two different Dobes but with virtually the same result--first a dull dry looking coat and then stools that went from normal to diarrhea and that time they both started having problems with weight--had to keep upping the quantity of food given to keep their weight in anything like show condition.
The most recent attempt to see if all the lamb products were going to do the same thing I tried someones lamb and lentil combo. This time there were three Dobes and an Australian Shepherd. One of the Dobes had instant diarrhea so I put him back on the Proplan Chicken and Rice he'd been eating for about 5 years. The other two Dobes went through the same coat deterioration from shiney to dull and dry looking and then weight loss and finally the softening of stools over time to diarrhea. The Aussie? The Aussie who would eat anything (or so I thought) said it wasn't food and he was moving out if I didn't do something about that. He evidently was willing to hold out as long as it took but I couldn't stand watching him not eat for three days (this was the Aussie who loved food and was on an eternal diet because Aussies's are such easy keepers most adults are fat.
A year or so ago I may have gotten some insight into part of the issue with lamb from a study on digestablity that MeadowCat posted. Of all the common meat proteins found in dog foods lamb is at the very bottom of the list. Fish is at the very top. Fowl is second in line. Then beef. Pork is rarely used as a protein for dog or cat food and I found a slightly different study about digestability which ranked lamb at the bottom, fish first, fowl second, pork third (with the note that it was, however rarely used in dog or cat food) and beef fourth.
The digestability issue would account for most of what I observed.
Just sayin' I do know people who have had great luck feeding dogs lamb based foods but it sure w asn't my experience.
dobebug
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N&D is an excellent highly rated dog food. Ingredients are top quality and traceable. It is highly rated here in Europe. I feed my Serra Estrela dogs this food both the ancestral grains and non grain food and they are in excellent show health. There is also a prescription range from this manufacturer but you can only get if prescribed by vet. This food exceeds all of the EU Canine feed requirements. The company began their business in Italy in the 60's. Its worth reading up about the family and their company and research carried out by names University.
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