[Rosemary]

Not exactly a breeder or breeding question, but I think this might be the best place for it. A mod can move it if they feel it would fit better somewhere else.

I had a random thought while looking at the recent threads on BYBs and Z factored dogs. I plan on getting a rescue, and I would want to do AKC Obedience, Rally, and the like. I know that dogs are sometimes (not always) turned over with their AKC papers. The question that arises is this: If I get a rescue that has been turned over with their papers, or could otherwise obtain them from the previous owner, should I go ahead and do a transfer of ownership, or should I just quietly get the dog a PAL, and ignore the papers? Would that be against AKC policy? I'm thinking along the lines of the dog being Z factored or from a well-known greeder, and would I really want that information in a show catalog for anyone to see?

 

[DogsR4Life]

Honestly, if your not planning on breeding (and no one should if the pedigree is less than stellar), who cares what people think? Take the papers, save some $$ and enjoy competing with your rescue

 

[Murreydobe]

I'd go with a PAL number and a new name. Why give any bragging rights to a crap breeder if you earn titles on your dog?

 

[StarlessSkye]

My rescue dog has AKC reg papers out there somewhere. I know who sired the litter and what bitch dropped the litter. If I wanted to, I could just make some phonecalls and see about transferring ownership but I'm not. He's already been neutered and I am sending out his ILP/PAL reg application in the next week. He's getting his own spiffy name so the "breeder" who produced him (no doubt also looking for whites, from what I could find out through internet sleuthing) wont be getting any praise for the amount of titles I plan to put on him while I look for his new home. No way am I giving those awful people any credit.

 

[Rosemary]

I'd go with a PAL number and a new name. Why give any bragging rights to a crap breeder if you earn titles on your dog?

That's kind of what I was thinking. Also, with a PAL, most people who know about stuff like that would automatically assume it was a rescue, and not feel obligated to give me the "buy from an ethical breeder next time" speech. You don't exactly get to choose your dogs breeder if you get a rescue.

Just as an aside, I know there are people who were absolutely livid that the AKC opened competition to mixed breeds. I came across some chat forums online, and I couldn't quite wrap my mind around the level of hatred some people had for allowing mixed breeds like my Ilka to compete. I guess our mutts were going to somehow contaminate their purebreds. Fortunately, I haven't encountered any of them in person.

 

[Murreydobe]

Just as an aside, I know there are people who were absolutely livid that the AKC opened competition to mixed breeds. I came across some chat forums online, and I couldn't quite wrap my mind around the level of hatred some people had for allowing mixed breeds like my Ilka to compete. I guess our mutts were going to somehow contaminate their purebreds. Fortunately, I haven't encountered any of them in person.

I'm not livid about it, but I think it was a very bad idea, not at all consistent with the AKC's stated mission. Just one more example that the AKC will sell out anything and everything for a buck.

BTW, I'm also not a snob about mixed breed dogs, one sleeps on my bed every night. But I don't think she has any business competing in AKC events.

 

[Rosemary]

I'm not livid about it, but I think it was a very bad idea, not at all consistent with the AKC's stated mission. Just one more example that the AKC will sell out anything and everything for a buck.

Well, think about it this way. If we get hooked on it with our mixed breeds, there is a good chance we'll want to get a purebred the next time around. Beside, anything that promotes better dog ownership (spay/neuter your pets and train them) can't be all bad.

ETA: I see you edited your post as I was writing mine. All I can say is that the only purebred dog I've had for thirty years is Lucky (and not really sure about him), but when I rescued him, Rat Terriers were not AKC. Besides, I've seen some dogs that are registered that I've gone "Huh? Are you sure?" about the breed.

 

[RedFawnRising]

Well, think about it this way. If we get hooked on it with our mixed breeds, there is a good chance we'll want to get a purebred the next time around. Beside, anything that promotes better dog ownership (spay/neuter your pets and train them) can't be all bad.

ETA: I see you edited your post as I was writing mine. All I can say is that the only purebred dog I've had for thirty years is Lucky (and not really sure about him), but when I rescued him, Rat Terriers were not AKC. Besides, I've seen some dogs that are registered that I've gone "Huh? Are you sure?" about the breed.

Yeah, I think it's a fabulous program--and for those of us with eclectic dog households, some purebred and some mixed, it finally allows us to enter all our competition-ready dogs in a trial we are attending.

Btw, not sure how the ambiance is at breed shows, but at agility trials, folks were overwhelmingly welcoming to my big mutt, George.

I'll ditto the suggestions to do a PAL. I have some hints as to Whisper's background, although it would be a educated guess, but even if I was able to find out for sure, I'd never give that crap breeder credit or bragging rights for anything she accomplishes.

 

[Adobe4two]

I'd go PAL as well.

Give the dog a new identity, a fresh clean slate that speaks only of them as an individual dog.

 

[Murreydobe]

Well, think about it this way. If we get hooked on it with our mixed breeds, there is a good chance we'll want to get a purebred the next time around..

That's the rhetoric the AKC is using to try to justify their decision. I'll believe it's a valid observation when we see some hard facts over time. Until then...just rhetoric.

There are people out there delibarately doing cross breeding in an effort to produce dogs who excell at sports like agility. The AKC's acceptance of mixed breed dogs in their venues does nothing but legitimize that kind of stuff.

 

[Rosemary]

Yeah, I think it's a fabulous program--and for those of us with eclectic dog households, some purebred and some mixed, it finally allows us to enter all our competition-ready dogs in a trial we are attending.

Btw, not sure how the ambiance is at breed shows, but at agility trials, folks were overwhelmingly welcoming to my big mutt, George.

I'll ditto the suggestions to do a PAL. I have some hints as to Whisper's background, although it would be a educated guess, but even if I was able to find out for sure, I'd never give that crap breeder credit or bragging rights for anything she accomplishes.

For the most part, the people I've talked with have been very encouraging. Not a one has wound up on the floor laughing when I've said I am hoping for an eventual UD. They just tell me to keep working with her (hey, what's better, a win over a decent dog, or a win over a lousy dog?). All the judges have been real nice. One judge even said (after a rather spectacular NQ Heel Free performance in Novice) that she would be happy to take Ilka back to Hawaii with her.

At most trials I've entered, Ilka's been the only mixed breed there, and if anyone's been unhappy about her being there, they haven't told me so to my face. Besides, if they don't want to run the risk of encountering a mixed breed, they can just avoid entering the trials that say they are open to mixed breeds.

 

[nightgrace6]

I think youre being so dramatic about people breeding mixed breeds to excel at agility etc.. most people that breed mixes obviously do it for a buck and I like the fact that people who rescue can do something with their dogs.. Murrey you do make pure breds look a bit snobby no matter how you word it....

 

[ellenm]

murrey is not being dramatic about the agility breeding. In my area there is a market for Aussie/Border Collie mixes for agility. I have not quizzed the people in my class as to why they may be better than the actual original breeds involved...

 

[Murreydobe]

I think youre being so dramatic about people breeding mixed breeds to excel at agility etc.. most people that breed mixes obviously do it for a buck and I like the fact that people who rescue can do something with their dogs.. Murrey you do make pure breds look a bit snobby no matter how you word it....

Nightgrace, there's been a "registry" and a venue specifically set up for mixed breed dogs, so they'd have somewhere to compete. It's been in existence for at least twenty years. So it's not really like they're out in the cold with nowhere to go.

And as you see, EllenM has confirmed that I'm not being dramatic about people doing delibarate crossbreeding specifically to create agility dogs. It is happening and again, I think the AKC's decision does nothing but legitimize that. BAD IDEA.

 

[Rosemary]

Before this thread becomes a debate over the AKC's Canine Partners Program (I seem to recall a similar fuss over allowing mixed breeds to be eligible for a CGC), could someone tell me if it's against AKC rules to PAL a dog you know (or are pretty sure) is already registered? I didn't see anything about it on the section of the website I looked at.

 

[Blackstone Dobermanns]

I usually only lurk on this site, but this topic is near and dear to my heart and I had to respond.

I have a shelter dog who I ILP'd to compete with. Because I was the intake coordinator at the shelter at the time that I adopted her, I do have her previous registration, pedigree, etc. Please know that this is not something that usually gets passed along to new adopters in order to protect the previous owner's privacy. However, when you are the person talking to the previous owners, you need to know where the dog came from in case it is a reputable breeder who will take the dog back.

So, I did write on her ILP application that she was previously registered with AKC. It didn't make any difference. AKC put the ILP registration through without any problems.

I obviously agree with all the previous comments here on not giving the breeder any credit. My lovely girl came from a horrible kennel that will never get credit for the SchH3/IPO3 that I spent hours and hours of my time and dedication training my dog for!

ILP your dog and enjoy the training!!
Aliss Weaver

 

[RedFawnRising]

Before this thread becomes a debate over the AKC's Canine Partners Program (I seem to recall a similar fuss over allowing mixed breeds to be eligible for a CGC), could someone tell me if it's against AKC rules to PAL a dog you know (or are pretty sure) is already registered? I didn't see anything about it on the section of the website I looked at.

Is it an AKC recognized breed?

If so, the ladies with whom I spoke were very adamant they want the animal to go thru PAL.

If it's not an AKC breed, then Canine Partners covers that.

Nightgrace, there are some goofy things going on with folks breeding "BorderJacks" and crap like that, but FFS, I also agree with you on the snobbery aspect.

Why punish those of us who rescued/altered and trained our mixed breeds for those few who are going to abuse the system? Find a way to exclude purpose-bred mixes, if that's the issue. Leave the shelter dogs alone and let them compete on their own merit.

How many agility trials do you think are offered exclusively for mixed breeds? Back when I was searching, I could not find one thing for several states surrounding.

I'm seeing quite a few kids at trials, with their shelter dogs. It's really pretty cool.

 

[RottenVonSpotten]

I usually only lurk on this site, but this topic is near and dear to my heart and I had to respond.

I have a shelter dog who I ILP'd to compete with. Because I was the intake coordinator at the shelter at the time that I adopted her, I do have her previous registration, pedigree, etc. Please know that this is not something that usually gets passed along to new adopters in order to protect the previous owner's privacy. However, when you are the person talking to the previous owners, you need to know where the dog came from in case it is a reputable breeder who will take the dog back.

So, I did write on her ILP application that she was previously registered with AKC. It didn't make any difference. AKC put the ILP registration through without any problems.

I obviously agree with all the previous comments here on not giving the breeder any credit. My lovely girl came from a horrible kennel that will never get credit for the SchH3/IPO3 that I spent hours and hours of my time and dedication training my dog for!

ILP your dog and enjoy the training!!
Aliss Weaver

I think you should post more and lurk less You certainly have valuable experiences to share from within the rescue and working worlds (I looked at your website).

 

[Blackstone Dobermanns]

I appreciate the compliment. Everyone here makes it too easy to lurk. They really have the bases covered!!

I think the only place I feel a little lonely is when I try mixing the two subjects, shelter dogs and IPO. I have many friends in both venues, but no one I know doing both. As you can probably tell, I definitely encourage people to train their shelter dogs and look to the shelters for their training prospects. Many dogs are turned in for having too much energy for their previous owners.

All the best.
Alissa Weaver

 

[RottenVonSpotten]

I appreciate the compliment. Everyone here makes it too easy to lurk. They really have the bases covered!!

I think the only place I feel a little lonely is when I try mixing the two subjects, shelter dogs and IPO. I have many friends in both venues, but no one I know doing both. As you can probably tell, I definitely encourage people to train their shelter dogs and look to the shelters for their training prospects. Many dogs are turned in for having too much energy for their previous owners.

All the best.
Alissa Weaver

If I could find a rescue Doberman that was suitable for working sports, I'd be all about it! I was thinking that some rescues wouldn't be too thrilled with the idea of "bite" or "protection" work though. Did DRU voice any concerns?

ETA: sorry to hijack Rosemary