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Redirected Aggression - Long

3763 Views 45 Replies 33 Participants Last post by  melbrod
Sorry for the length -- and the depressing tone. :(

We had a very disappointing setback this evening. I won’t lie. I’m more than “disappointed.” I’m angry and I’m kind of scared of my own dog.

I’m feeling ambivalent about sharing. Part of me wants to hear advice and uplifting stories. The other part of me is not sure that I can handle the criticism– constructive or otherwise. Other reasons for sharing is the catharsis that comes with it.

Some of you know that our biggest problem with Hector right now is the dog aggression. We’ve been to basic obedience classes with a very good trainer who we really like. DH and Hector finished the 6 weeks of obedience class very well. Then I started bringing Hector to class because the dog aggression happens mostly with me. I thought we did pretty good. The dog aggression wasn’t bad yet. I say that because I could give him a leash correction (hard pull on the choke chain) and Hector would stop.

I felt good enough to practice at home by myself. He still barked, lunged and growled. I decided to leave most of the exercising of Hector to Hubby or our dog walker. The only times I would handle Hector on walks was if DH was walking with us.

Two or three days ago, I handled Hector and we passed a dog. Hector barked and lunged and I tried to get the choke chain high up on the neck for better control. I got nipped two or three times during the encounter.

Today, I tried again handling Hector. A dog was passing us. I tried the technique that works for DH and our dog walker– which is to keep the choke chain high up on the neck and shorten up on the leash. When I tried to do this, he redirected his aggression at me. (I don’t know, maybe my timing was too late) I count at least three times that he bit me. I have a tear in one pant leg (no flesh wound). And he bit me twice in the other leg. Of the two bites, one was just a puncture wound and the other was a scratch.

Hubby could see my difficulties, so he took Hector’s leash from me. He really tightened up on the choke chain and pulled up; this is the way our trainer had advised. Once Hector stopped struggling, Hubby loosened up on the collar, but since the dog was in sight, Hector went nuts again. I can’t describe every single move we made, but suffice it to say that Hubby got bitten twice on the hand. One bite broke the skin which bled. The other was a smaller scratch.

We’ve called our trainer and left a message to set up some private lessons. We’re just waiting for a call back now.

I feel really discouraged. And angry. I did not sign up to get bitten by my own dog. I feel like I can’t really trust this dog. That may sound naive to the more experienced owners and trainers here. So be it. Mentally, I thought I was prepared to work through Hector’s issues, but I did not think that biting me was part of it.

I am so not happy right now. It’s given me a mental hang up that I am sure will affect how I handle Hector even more.

Sorry for the long post. I just didn’t know who else would be interested in hearing the long drawn out story except for other Doberman people like you all.

I'll keep you updated on what the trainer says. I'm hoping he'll have time to meet with us tomorrow.
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Don't be afraid of your dog. He'll sense it and this will scare him, thus feeding the anxiety/aggression dynamic.

Change your mental attitude to an emotionally neutral state for now, until you can consult the trainer.

This is a trying situation. I wish you the very best of luck.
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Jennifer I'm so sorry - I truly know how you feel I am taking Casper for an evaluation on Sunday for help also - Casper hasn't bitten me yet but he did go after my chihuahua tonite and has growled at my husband and daughter :(

I do have to question the advice to correct Hector though everything I've read suggests that corrections make it worse - For Casper I have been asking for sit and watch me - when he starts to amp up, he is *almost* to the point that when he hears another dog he gives me eye contact instead of reacting. If I get frustrated and correct him I am guarenteed he will redirect on me.

I do feel for you though and do know what you are going through - I'm sorry I can't be of more help
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I am very sorry to hear! Don't give up. I won't give advice as I think it is better from a trainer, but hang inthere.
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I am so sorry you're having this struggle. I am so glad you posted what you did and were so honest about your experience. We will all learn something. You are not alone with this, as, thank goodness, we have so many experiences Doberman people on this forum. I will stay in touch with this thread so I can learn something too. Keep your chin up and don't lose hope. I think we all get frustrated and disappointed from time to time.
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Jennifer, I too am very sorry to hear of your struggles with Hector.

There are lessons here, for every human and for your dog, too.

I agree with WorkingK9s that it's very problematic to try to advise over the 'net--and I don't think that's what you're really asking, either.

It is good to have a place where folks are compassionate and *interested* in long Doberman stories, huh?

I just want to stress again for you to take care of yourself, both the physical wounds, and the emotional state.

I'm glad you're working with a trainer, but since the advice you're using seems to not be working for Hector--is there someone in the area you can consult for a second opinion?

No need to answer on board, I don't want to add to your "to-do" list or pile on more stress, just a suggestion that there are behaviorists who can help Hector make different associations in his mind, when he sees other dogs.

As you've seen, just trying to tamp down the aggressive behavior can be not very effective, as well as dangerous. If you can get the *emotion* behind his reactions to the other dogs to change to something more positive, his behavior will follow.

I'm thinking of you guys.
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JEN PM me and let me know, and use the tantum if you feel more secure with it.
good nite. Von.
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Jennifer don't be down on yourself. If you want to work through this....I think you can. My advice would be to find the best possible trainer, do EXACTLY as they instruct you to do...and in the meantime, walk him with a basket type muzzle on or dont walk him at all.

I also have a VERY dog aggressive dog and it is a constant battle. We are GOING to make it work, but it is not an overnight type of thing. It is lifetime... If at first we dont succeed...try, try again... We have overcome alot of it, but I have to be very careful of the positions that I put her in, she hates dogs.

I am so sorry that you feel like you cannot trust your own dog, that is very sad. :( I wish you all the best of luck with your trainer. Please keep us updated on your progress.

Also...you dont sound naive at all...you sound worried...and you have every right to be. You dont owe us any kind of explanation...but I do hope that you guys get the training help that you need. There really is no easy answer to this kind of thing.

(P.S. I hope that you and your husband are alright. If you have any puncture wounds you may want to see a doctor and at least get on an antibiotic)
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Jennifer - I agree with BIB that, for the moment, you should buy a basket muzzle and put it on him before you leave the house. Hopefully you will find a very good trainer - you might try asking rescue people, who probably have some connections with rehab-experienced trainers? I feel so bad for you - you have been so positive and devoted to Hector's well-being. I'm sending lots of good wishes your way.

(PS - when was the last time you had a tetanus shot?)
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Thank you for all the advice and words of encouragement. It is clear that your responses were born out of consideration and thoughtfulness.

My husband and I will think long and hard about every suggestion offered here. All of you have given of your time and expertise. We will carefully consider every option, every idea and every technique.

Be assured that whatever training choice we follow will be done with much thought and deliberation.

Lolonurse -- I don't remember my last tetnus shot.
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I will be watching this thread closely as Kleo has dog aggression too, but only to dogs she doesn't know, but never an incident where she has bit me or anything. She even lets me move the choke chain up, but still no results. But day in day out, she is getting a weeee bit better each time. Less barking, lunging, and more listening (sometimes!). But I will make it work, and I've seen that as she is growing up she is getting more understanding( at least hopefully).

Sending prayers and vibes your ways for a full recovery and well being of Hector mentally and physically. Good luck, Jen.
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One on one help will be the best for you. Get the best recommended qualifid person to help you. Good Luck.
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Sorry to hear. Do not get discouraged. Keep us posted.......ur posts helps others to know they may not be the only ones with the same problem. Thats why its important to share. Good luck!
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I'm so sorry. I agree with the others that in some situations it's best to recommend a local trainer than to suggest things to try via the internet. Dogs CAN be taught to be neutral towards other dogs in controlled environments, so have hope and hang in there. The most important thing for the moment though is keeping yourself safe, so I agree with the others again about either not walking him or doing it with a basket muzzle for the time being.
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Jenn01-

As you can tell by my other posts under this same section, I am a novice owner who can't really offer any constructive advice. But as a human with compassion and feelings I can say I am sorry to hear this and know that you will seek the proper advice from a trainer to get over this. I look at difficulties in life like they are a test...so basically every struggle is a test to see if I can get over that hump and continue on down life's road. Hang in there, don't give up, and keep us posted.

Michael
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Aw, Jen I'm so sorry. I have no words of advice, but you guys are in my thoughts and prayers. Only thing I can think to add is to contact local pit bull rescues- they seem to have good lists of trainers for dealing with DA.

BTW, if you can't remember when your last tetanus shot was, you need to get one ASAP!
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I just caught up - I'm sorry this happened. I can't offer any advise but I will watch the thread so I can learn from it as well. Sounds like you are getting good advise and you do have professional trainer. And stay safe - people first in this case.
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I'm really sorry your going through this, although I do understand. ******* also has problems with some dogs. Once in a group agility class she redirected and broke skin on my leg.
I use the watch me command and I never walk by dogs that close, it's just to much for her right now. I have also used a basket muzzle. Keep working on it with a good trainer, you may have to try different things. Not one thing works for all dogs, and a good trainer will pick up on that.
On Sunday ******* was in a down stay in a open field while two other dogs worked around her. So with effort from you and good direction from a trainer you will see results, but sometimes it's baby steps like BIB said.
Hope you can work his problems out.
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I can't really offer much except to say "hang in there". I too am going through issues with me dog as my posts have stated. I will however chime in with everyone and suggest the muzzle or no walks at all. When Bumpy first got big I used a muzzle on him as he used to lunge at dogs behind walls - and he had an entirely different attitude with one on - the macho toughness went away for whatever reason. He now walks by my side without a muzzle in a calm manner - proof that there is hope out there. Also, I use a pinch collar - not sure what everyone's thoughts are on that but he corrects much easier with a tug on that as opposed to a choke. Feel confident that your trainer will be able to help you. In the meantime don't put yourself in that situation until you get help. I hope you and hubby are ok.
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We're having the same problems with Rocky - sort of. When he's off leash he's good with other dogs! Its just when we walk past one that he lunges in a playful matter, but as of recently he's started lunging and growling/barking. We're afraid if we get him a muzzle, this will scare the neighbors.
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