Doberman Forum : Doberman Breed Dog Forums banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
has anyone heard of byb stealing pedigree charts of other breeders dogs and passing it off as their own dogs charts? also, how can a potential owner be assured that the dog he wants to buy is in fact from the sire and dam on the pedigree chart and that the breeder didn't use someone elses?
 

·
u mad?
Joined
·
6,476 Posts
I'm sure it's happened... as to how someone can be sure that they're being told the truth in that matter, I don't quite know.

If you're having doubts about a breeder, however, than perhaps they're not the right breeder for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
811 Posts
The owner of the dog's name is listed on the AKC or Cdn Kennel Club papers along with the dog's pedigree. The pedigree on their website may state the dog's lineage but the actual papers show the owner and breeder names. If it didn't match the people who own the stud dog or female I would be asking a lot of questions.

As well if the dog is shown, the results in conformation, agility, obedience, schutzhund/IPO list the owner and handler to help verify titles on the parent dogs.

I also recommend if the parents are being advertised has having OFA health checks, that the buyer check on the OFA website Orthopedic Foundation for Animals and learn what the different grades actually mean.

I recently saw a stud dog advertised as OFA elbows excellent when OFA elbows are graded as either normal or graded by the level of elbow displaysia. May have been a typo on the website but it would have me asking more questions to see if it was an honest mistake or perhaps the owner is not knowledgeable or trying to hide other things.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
811 Posts
Actually, owners are not listed on official pedigrees. Just the breeder's name(s).
Well I just looked at my AKC and Cdn Kennel Club papers again and the dog's name, sire and dam, breeder's name and the owner's name are all listed.

Perhaps the owner's name is not on the extended pedigree but if I thought someone was using another dog's pedigree, having the actual parents of the dog listed on the parents would be enough for me to know the extended pedigree was for another dog since the parents would not match.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pindrop

·
Extraordimary
Joined
·
4,959 Posts
Well I just looked at my AKC and Cdn Kennel Club papers again and the dog's name, sire and dam, breeder's name and the owner's name are all listed.
I said the owner's name(s) were not on official kennel club pedigrees. Of course they are on the registration paper.
 

·
Sea Hag
Joined
·
12,933 Posts
Well I just looked at my AKC and Cdn Kennel Club papers again and the dog's name, sire and dam, breeder's name and the owner's name are all listed.

Perhaps the owner's name is not on the extended pedigree but if I thought someone was using another dog's pedigree, having the actual parents of the dog listed on the parents would be enough for me to know the extended pedigree was for another dog since the parents would not match.
But how often does a puppy buyer actually even see the registration papers for the parents? They may see a pedigree, but I don't think it's the least bit common for puppy buyers to receive a copy of the registration for the parents, or even see that. I never have when I've bought a puppy. Nor have I ever given a bitch owner a copy of Connor's reg. papers when he's sired a litter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
811 Posts
But how often does a puppy buyer actually even see the registration papers for the parents? They may see a pedigree, but I don't think it's the least bit common for puppy buyers to receive a copy of the registration for the parents, or even see that. I never have when I've bought a puppy. Nor have I ever given a bitch owner a copy of Connor's reg. papers when he's sired a litter.
I received black and white copies of the extended pedigree and registration papers of the mother father of my current pup and I checked the info was correct. I also received copies of ofa health and verified the info on the ofa database. The OP wanted to know how to verify a pedigree. These are some options. I didn't say it was done on every dog, but that doesn't mean a buyer can't ask for it. When I buy a used car the dealer has to give me a "carfax" which lists the vehicle history and any accidents and mileage. I still go and verify with the department of motor vehicles before signing off on the contract as a matter of due diligence. Just because not everyone checks the background on what they are told, doesn't mean its not a good idea.
*typed on cell phone so apologise if any typos
 

·
Sea Hag
Joined
·
12,933 Posts
I received black and white copies of the extended pedigree and registration papers of the mother father of my current pup and I checked the info was correct. I also received copies of ofa health and verified the info on the ofa database. The OP wanted to know how to verify a pedigree. These are some options. I didn't say it was done on every dog, but that doesn't mean a buyer can't ask for it. When I buy a used car the dealer has to give me a "carfax" which lists the vehicle history and any accidents and mileage. I still go and verify with the department of motor vehicles before signing off on the contract as a matter of due diligence. Just because not everyone checks the background on what they are told, doesn't mean its not a good idea.
*typed on cell phone so apologise if any typos
Be that as it may, there's still plenty of room for error in this. Lots of people own more than one dog, so just because their name is on a reg. paper for one dog doesn't mean that particular dog is the parent of a litter.

Really, the only way parentage can be verified 100% is through dna testing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
811 Posts
Be that as it may, there's still plenty of room for error in this. Lots of people own more than one dog, so just because their name is on a reg. paper for one dog doesn't mean that particular dog is the parent of a litter.

Really, the only way parentage can be verified 100% is through dna testing.
The OP asked how to verify that the dogs a BYB was claiming where the parents were actually the BYB's dogs. Or at least that is how I took the question to be. Personnaly I wish people would check with the reported stud dog that he is a sire, check with the OFA on the health status and confirm titles by looking at published results to ensure the truth is being advertised.

Yes of course dna testing is ideal, but the OP was asking how to tell if the pedigree was the dogs owned by the breeder. Obviously a BYB is not the ideal breeder to support anyways.
For the record I agree with dna testing before registeration. The Jockey Club has done it for years along with mandating live cover. Of course the value of a horse is far more than the value of a dog and the cost and paperwork would be cumbersome to a dog breeder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
811 Posts
I did want to add kudos to the OP for thinking to followup on pedigrees to ensure everything checks out. I wish more puppy buyers would check references and know what questions to ask.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pindrop

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
also, do most or all reputable breeders post their dogs pedigree chart on their website? Would it be out of the ordinary for a breeder to not post it for the fear of another breeder copying it and using it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
811 Posts
also, do most or all reputable breeders post their dogs pedigree chart on their website? Would it be out of the ordinary for a breeder to not post it for the fear of another breeder copying it and using it?
It depends on the breeder. Some will post and some will not. Each breeder will have different reasons for posting or not posting.


But if the parents of the litter are named by their registered names then you can usually find the parents of those parents on Welcome to DobeQuest for quite a few show line dobes or you can check Rassehunde, Zuchten, Welpen und Hundesport bei Working-dog.eu for extended pedigree of working line dobes. I personally love working-dog since there can be titles (show and working), health results, photos/videos, and dob of birth and date of death for many ancestors. Of course not everyone updates the profiles but it has alot of great information when used correctly.
 

·
Sea Hag
Joined
·
12,933 Posts
also, do most or all reputable breeders post their dogs pedigree chart on their website? Would it be out of the ordinary for a breeder to not post it for the fear of another breeder copying it and using it?
I know a lot of breeders and really can't think of one who does too much worrying about anyone copying and using their pedigrees.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,544 Posts
also, do most or all reputable breeders post their dogs pedigree chart on their website? Would it be out of the ordinary for a breeder to not post it for the fear of another breeder copying it and using it?
Anyone can go to the AKCs website and get a pedigree on any dog for $10. So I doubt anyone cares about stealing off of their page.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
You request the byb do a DNA test, I know the sire and the dam need to have
it done, but if you are unsure request that they do it on them and the pup.
AKC does the DNA, it's done on all imports if you want to breed, so I am sure
that they will do it on American breed dogs. That way you would be sure of the
sire and dam since you are in doubt.
 

·
Got mutt?
Joined
·
13,839 Posts
You request the byb do a DNA test, I know the sire and the dam need to have
it done, but if you are unsure request that they do it on them and the pup.
AKC does the DNA, it's done on all imports if you want to breed, so I am sure
that they will do it on American breed dogs. That way you would be sure of the
sire and dam since you are in doubt.
If a dog has sired more than three litters in a year, or more than seven litters in his lifetime, his DNA must be filed with the AKC under the Frequently Used Sire guidelines. That said, I believe anyone can request a DNA parentage test on their puppy, if they suspect that the dogs listed as the parents are not correct.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top