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Question about loose leash walking.

2K views 29 replies 12 participants last post by  lyngr 
eph94 said:
I must be having one of those dense moments because I still don't see the nuance that you are trying to lay out before me. <<KNOCKS OWN HEAD>>

I just don't understand what you mean by someone *relying* on the prong collar to do the work for them. The prong collar can either take drive away from a dog (one snap) or add drive to a dog (several snaps in succession). For example, if a dog is tugging on a lead, I could give it a Level 3 correction and it would stop tugging--at least momentarily. However, if I gave it a series of quick Level 1 or Level 2 corrections, it would tug even harder. Same collar, different result. For that reason, I just don't see how a prong collar can do the work on its own. How does it know what to "do"? One action ADDS drive and another action TAKES AWAY drive... both using the same prong collar. So, depending on how the handler uses the prong collar, the result can be completely different.

Am I missing the boat here? If so, I'm sorry for wasting bandwidth...
eph94

One of the things I see frequently is dogs who will behave only with a prong or gentle leader. That is what I think was meant by letting the prong (or whatever it is you are using as an aid) do the work. Even though I don't recommend using a halti or gentle leader for Dobes and I do use and recommend using prongs for some dogs they are training devices and the training should continue on through the use of those aids to the ultimate goal--which is probably a well behaved dog on any sort of collar or leash arrangement.

I also want to comment on your statement that prongs can either add or take away drive. I'm guessing you are talking about Leerberg and those methods when you talk about Level 1, 2 and 3 corrections. For people who have never heard of Leerberg or Level of correction I think you need to be more explicit. And I'll warn you that you can't exactly say that 1 Level 3 snap (one hard correction?--is that what you mean?) will take away drive while several Level 1 or 2 snaps (several mild corrections?) will add drive. Doesn't always work that way.

One of the reasons for using a prong is that unless the dog learns to pull constantly (and there are ways of avoiding that) the prong will cause a self correction--dog lunges, get corrected by the pinch collar--most dogs learn pretty quickly not to lunge or pull--but if you don't continue the training process the dog will never learn to walk quietly on a leash rather than do a sled dog routine unless you have the prong on them. The goal, as I said earlier is to have a dog who no longer needs the aid because they have learned the appropriate behavior.
 
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