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Hey everyone, I'm new to this thread, and this is my first post. First of all I'd like to just say hi to everyone, I've read a number of threads on this board and I've already learned lots from all you wonderful Doberman owners!

Now to my situation:
I'm getting a black male in about a week, he'll be 8 weeks old. I'm unbelievably excited and this will be the first dog I own that is all mine! Now I'm a university student, I'm studying biology at the University of Waterloo, and I'm on a co-op cycle, meaning that every 4 monthes I alternate in between studying, and doing co-op placements. I start a job in Ottawa in the fall, which will be roughly 2-3 weeks after I get my little baby. Now I'm going to be at work for about 8 hours a day, and I'd prefer not to have to come home at lunch. My mother however is home all day, running a daycare(plenty of child socialization), and my little brother is getting a puppy too(mini australian shepherd). So the dog will certainly not be left alone during the day. I know that doberman's form strong bonds with one owner in particular, but I'm worried that by being at work for most of the day, my puppy will become more attached to my Mother. I plan on being the one who feeds him, walks him, and does the majority of his training. I'm gonna try to limit the amount of affection and training my mother does with the puppy. Obviously she'll enforce house breaking and what not and who can resist puppy kisses here and there? Taking these precautions though, do you guys think there will be an issue with the dog seeing me as the primary owner? What else can I do to help this? I'm moving back to University after four monthes, with the dog of course, so it's very important that the dog forms a strong bond with me. Thanks everyone!
 

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Hey everyone, I'm new to this thread, and this is my first post. First of all I'd like to just say hi to everyone, I've read a number of threads on this board and I've already learned lots from all you wonderful Doberman owners!

Now to my situation:
I'm getting a black male in about a week, he'll be 8 weeks old. I'm unbelievably excited and this will be the first dog I own that is all mine! Now I'm a university student, I'm studying biology at the University of Waterloo, and I'm on a co-op cycle, meaning that every 4 monthes I alternate in between studying, and doing co-op placements. I start a job in Ottawa in the fall, which will be roughly 2-3 weeks after I get my little baby. Now I'm going to be at work for about 8 hours a day, and I'd prefer not to have to come home at lunch. My mother however is home all day, running a daycare(plenty of child socialization), and my little brother is getting a puppy too(mini australian shepherd). So the dog will certainly not be left alone during the day. I know that doberman's form strong bonds with one owner in particular, but I'm worried that by being at work for most of the day, my puppy will become more attached to my Mother. I plan on being the one who feeds him, walks him, and does the majority of his training. I'm gonna try to limit the amount of affection and training my mother does with the puppy. Obviously she'll enforce house breaking and what not and who can resist puppy kisses here and there? Taking these precautions though, do you guys think there will be an issue with the dog seeing me as the primary owner? What else can I do to help this? I'm moving back to University after four monthes, with the dog of course, so it's very important that the dog forms a strong bond with me. Thanks everyone!
Bold emphasis, mine.

First, hi and welcome to the forum.

Second, you will find that Doberman love is not a finite commodity :)

In other words, there is no need (nor any valid reason) to "limit" the amount of love that is exchanged between your mother and your new puppy. Goodness, just think about it--would you tell someone to behave rather standoffishly and unemotionally to a child they were babysitting for you, because you fear the child will then not love you as much? C'mon, think about it!

In fact, the more socialization and more positive interactions your new puppy has with as many humans as possible--the more confident an adult dog he will be, and the more stable and the more loving a companion to you.

One more thing, I noted you said your brother is getting a "Mini" Australian Shepherd, and those are, um, not something an ethical breeder would indulge in. They are sort of a trendy, backyard breeder thing, and it would be a shame 1. To support that type of person with your money 2. To wind up with a dog with health and temperament problems

Possibly your family could do a little more research into the "mini Aussie," before taking that plunge.
 

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Bold emphasis, mine.

First, hi and welcome to the forum.

Second, you will find that Doberman love is not a finite commodity :)

In other words, there is no need (nor any valid reason) to "limit" the amount of love that is exchanged between your mother and your new puppy. Goodness, just think about it--would you tell someone to behave rather standoffishly and unemotionally to a child they were babysitting for you, because you fear the child will then not love you as much? C'mon, think about it!

In fact, the more socialization and more positive interactions your new puppy has with as many humans as possible--the more confident an adult dog he will be, and the more stable and the more loving a companion to you.

One more thing, I noted you said your brother is getting a "Mini" Australian Shepherd, and those are, um, not something an ethical breeder would indulge in. They are sort of a trendy, backyard breeder thing, and it would be a shame 1. To support that type of person with your money 2. To wind up with a dog with health and temperament problems

Possibly your family could do a little more research into the "mini Aussie," before taking that plunge.
And getting two puppies near-simultaneously isn't a good idea, either. Even if not the same breed/littelr with a couple of weeks between, this may become a problem down the line.
 

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Sora loves my niece, I mean LOVES her!!! They cuddle and fall asleep like a pile of puppies when ever my niece spends the night. Sora rarely cuddles with me in the same way, but if I turn in a different direction on our family walks, Sora will always come with me.

I am her primary person, we fit together like puzzle pieces, yet she almost pees with excitement when ever she sees my niece. Does she love my niece more? No. She just has a different relationship with her. It’s kind of like having a friend you go to happy hour with versus a friend you can tell your deepest secrets to.

My point is, like RFR said, the more people your dog can have as friends, the more likely he’ll be well adjusted.

I am a little bit worried though, about two puppies being raised in a day care situation. It would take a lot of diligence on your mom’s part to make sure the little kidletts aren’t pulling ears or tails, or poking things. It could be a disaster waiting to happen.
 

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I think the right word is will the puppy see you as his primary leader. Simple - you show leadership, he'll believe it. And I don't agree that its true that the doberman will form a strong bond with only one person. Our household proves that, albeit there's only two adults and the doberman - he is 100% bonded to each of us in a unique way. She's the alpha, and me and him are still rock-paper-scissors over who's next in line (that's a joke). So your mother needs to be affectionate with the puppy - let the puppy be a puppy. What is your plan for house breaking? i.e., how will your mother enforce the house breaking? reason I ask is different folks have different opinions about what house breaking is. It's too late for my unsolicited advise, but I would have suggested you wait until you finished school and were a bit more independent before taking on a doberman puppy that will rapidly become a dober-teen then a young male with drives. but hey, good luck!!
 

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My advice: get over yourself.

If you get a dog that you have so little time for that you have to entrust the bulk of its care to someone else, then you'll just have to accept that your dog will form a strong bond with that person - and it's desirable that it does, both for the dog's sake and for the sake of the person responsible for most of its care.

You can own a dog on paper. But you can't own it's heart on paper. The latter takes time and commitment and, as you don't have that time, you're just going to have to relinquish your rather selfish claim to exclusivity.
 

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And getting two puppies near-simultaneously isn't a good idea, either. Even if not the same breed/littelr with a couple of weeks between, this may become a problem down the line.
I think the dog is her brother's dog. She is not in charge of taking care them both.
 

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Sora loves my niece, I mean LOVES her!!! They cuddle and fall asleep like a pile of puppies when ever my niece spends the night. Sora rarely cuddles with me in the same way, but if I turn in a different direction on our family walks, Sora will always come with me.

I am her primary person, we fit together like puzzle pieces, yet she almost pees with excitement when ever she sees my niece. Does she love my niece more? No. She just has a different relationship with her. It’s kind of like having a friend you go to happy hour with versus a friend you can tell your deepest secrets to.

My point is, like RFR said, the more people your dog can have as friends, the more likely he’ll be well adjusted.

I am a little bit worried though, about two puppies being raised in a day care situation. It would take a lot of diligence on your mom’s part to make sure the little kidletts aren’t pulling ears or tails, or poking things. It could be a disaster waiting to happen.
Great post. That's similar to my situation.
Me and my roommate are home quite often, and at some point she's even more often than me. My boy let her pet him, and stay still with a pleasant groan, which he rarely does with me. But according to my roommate, when I'm out, my boy is very quiet, perfect good dog, laying low and walking around the house calmly. His tru happiness is with me, when he gets play toys, plays with me, going for a walk, have meals, treats...And he listens to ME. No matterwhat he is doing with my roommate, once I call his name he'll be there in a heartbeat. To sum up this part, you should let your dog love people other than you, and let people love your dog, too.
Regarding busy schedule. I'm busy as hell. And believe me traveling under sizzle sun in a tropical country, on motorbike is not a pleasure thing but I've been doing that every working day during his puppyhood, to let him pee and poop, play with him and take him for a short walk so that he doesn't bore out of his mind. You should manage a way that your dog see you as his leader, as primary resource in a loving way.
ETA: Don't believe that the one who feeds the dog would have the strongest bond. My first hand experience with many dogs.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Not sure how smoothly this quoting is going to translate onto the website but here we go:

Goodness, just think about it--would you tell someone to behave rather standoffishly and unemotionally to a child they were babysitting for you, because you fear the child will then not love you as much? C'mon, think about it!

Possibly your family could do a little more research into the "mini Aussie," before taking that plunge.
Great response, very helpful, just a couple things. I checked out the breeders website for the mini australian shepherd and they *seem to be running a legitimate operation, just having bred for temperment as well as size. I'll raise the issue to my parents though. I'll make sure not to put a limit on the puppy kisses! I'd just like to clarify that my intention, however poorly expressed, is to limit stress/seperation anxiety, when in four monthes time, we head back to Waterloo, away from my mother.

And getting two puppies near-simultaneously isn't a good idea, either. Even if not the same breed/littelr with a couple of weeks between, this may become a problem down the line.
Believe it or not, the dogs are actually only 4 days apart in age! They will only be together for 4 monthes as well.

What is your plan for house breaking? i.e., how will your mother enforce the house breaking? reason I ask is different folks have different opinions about what house breaking is. It's too late for my unsolicited advise, but I would have suggested you wait until you finished school and were a bit more independent before taking on a doberman puppy that will rapidly become a dober-teen then a young male with drives. but hey, good luck!!
House breaking will be done using positive reinforcement when the dog goes where we want him to, my mother has had countless dogs in her life, I trust her very much with this task. Also I really appreciate your concern as to me acquiring a doberman while still in university. My logic is that when I'm out of university, I may be working more, and it would help to have a well trained, calmer doberman at this point. At this point in my life, I pretty much never go to class, I will be home a lot! And when I'm on my co-op term, I will be living with my roomates, which translates into the dog not spending hours by himself. Believe me, I have been sitting on this idea for a very long time, I have done a lot of reading, and I wouldn't be getting him if I didn't think I'd provide an exceptional environment for him.

My advice: get over yourself.

If you get a dog that you have so little time for that you have to entrust the bulk of its care to someone else, then you'll just have to accept that your dog will form a strong bond with that person - and it's desirable that it does, both for the dog's sake and for the sake of the person responsible for most of its care.
Great advice, I agree with you on this, and I see now how my post came off as. Like I said, I'm only going to be in Ottawa with my family for four monthes, and I'm trying to limit the stress/seperation anxiety my pup is going to experience upon moving back to waterloo with me. During study terms, I will be able to provide a lot more time for the dog than anyone who is not working from home or bringing their dog into the office. As for work terms, I'll be living with roomates, or family if placed in Ottawa. But to sum it all up, my interest lays soley in the emotional well being of my baby.



I really hope this quoting working out :praying:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I am a little bit worried though, about two puppies being raised in a day care situation. It would take a lot of diligence on your mom’s part to make sure the little kidletts aren’t pulling ears or tails, or poking things. It could be a disaster waiting to happen.
There's only 5 children, and they are all very well behaved. We've also always had dogs while running the daycare, and they kid are absolutely great with them and vice versa. Actually the my old newfie landseer's favourite part of the day was when lauren (3yrs) would come everyone morning and give him his treat!
 

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Great advice, I agree with you on this, and I see now how my post came off as. Like I said, I'm only going to be in Ottawa with my family for four monthes, and I'm trying to limit the stress/seperation anxiety my pup is going to experience upon moving back to waterloo with me. During study terms, I will be able to provide a lot more time for the dog than anyone who is not working from home or bringing their dog into the office. As for work terms, I'll be living with roomates, or family if placed in Ottawa. But to sum it all up, my interest lays soley in the emotional well being of my baby.
Sorry about my slightly harsh tone above - I'd just been reading some rescue stuff and was in a sort of generic bad mood about how selfish humans can be, which sort of translated across to your original post.

Pups tend to be fairly gregarious - the one-person loyalty, if it happens, is more of an adult Dobe thing. If your pup spends lots of time with you AND your family (together or separately), he should be okay in either situation.
 

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So, you'll be moving out into rented housing in the next four months then? Are you aware if the building allows Dobermanns? Is the home insurance (rented or owned) a company that allows Dobermanns?

Have you thought about this side of things? What about the attachment that your puppy will have to your brother's puppy? Puppies form VERY strong bonds with each other and it does hurt them to be torn apart in such a way that you are probably going to do. You cannot dictate who your puppy is allowed to love. That's just asking for behaviour issues as he/she grows up.

I am home pretty much all day, every-day with my dogs. When Uni starts up, I'm only out of the house for 2 hours, twice a day, two times a week. My dogs listen to me, we have our own special relationship, but they see my other-half as their almighty god. The instant he steps into the house, they're at his feet, waiting for belly-rubs, treats, games etc. I do all of the work, and it seems sometimes that DH gets all of the rewards lol!

I feel that there's going to be issues with both of these puppies being raised amongst one woman who is in charge of the welfare for 5 kids. She wont be able to keep her eyes on the kids and puppies the whole time they're together. Puppies mouth, Dobermann puppies mouth particularly fiercely at times and for a young child with delicate skin, this usually means bruising and even drawn blood. Young kids do not know how to act around puppies instinctively. Their instincts will be to pull away when a pup puts his/her mouth on them, to retaliate when they feel pain.

Make sure you treat any dog in your care with a kind, consistent, yet fair hand. You want respect from your dogs, not fear.
 
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So, you'll be moving out into rented housing in the next four months then? Are you aware if the building allows Dobermanns? Is the home insurance (rented or owned) a company that allows Dobermanns?

Have you thought about this side of things? What about the attachment that your puppy will have to your brother's puppy? Puppies form VERY strong bonds with each other and it does hurt them to be torn apart in such a way that you are probably going to do. You cannot dictate who your puppy is allowed to love. That's just asking for behaviour issues as he/she grows up.



I feel that there's going to be issues with both of these puppies being raised amongst one woman who is in charge of the welfare for 5 kids. She wont be able to keep her eyes on the kids and puppies the whole time they're together.
Thank you for bringing up these great points Cassandra(funny enough, I plan on naming him Cassius)! Not only are we moving into a townhouse where the owner is alright with me having a dog, the Ontario Tenant act states that a tenant cannot be evicted or forced to get rid of the dog unless the dog is causing other tenants harm, or being exceptionally disruptive. So regardless of wether or not I was going into a place that allowed for dogs, they can't take any legal action against me, the most they can do is not resign on the lease. The house insurance is covered by the landlords, but I plan on taking responsibility for any damages he might cause.

Cassandra you obviously haven't met my mother lol! She's been running a daycare out of her home for more than 20 years, and have had dogs in it the entire time. We have actually raised two puppies at the same time before, while running the day care(littermates nonetheless). I don't foresee there being any problems.

Lastly, there's nothing I can do about the seperation anxiety between the two pups other than keeping him happy and well loved, but I had already anticipated this occuring, which is why for the majority of the time, the dogs will be trained seperately, walked seperately, fed seperately, and sleeping in different parts of the house. All this in attempt to build the pups sense of individuality and decrease the dependancy on the other dog's presence.

As
 

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Hey,

I'm not far from you-I'm in Brampton! Just wondering which breeder you went with and why since I'm in the area :)
 

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I would like to address the mini aussie issue for a minute before we jump off the deep end - in May I had the opportunity to conduct the CGC testing and rally for the American Stock dog registry Nationals. It is a new registry for the mini aussies. They had conformation classes, obedience classes, CGC testing, rally and 3 days of activities. It is true that they are not yet a recognized breed by AKC, but this is how new breeds get started.

They held a cerf clinic which I was very glad to see as I was able to get 4 of my own dogs done there.

They are concerned about health and temperament and are very passionate about their mini aussies. It is true they are not in favor now by the Aussie breeders and they have a long way to go to achieve AKC status, but I question if that makes them disreputable?

They were invited to France last year and went over to help with the establishment of the mini aussie club in Europe. I think they are here to stay.

They have a lot to learn and a long way to go, but they are working hard to achieve a successful program. Should we say Herr Dobermann was wrong to breed a number of dogs together to produce the Dobermann???
 

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I think the dog is her brother's dog. She is not in charge of taking care them both.
If they are living together in the same house, it could be more difficult and care should be taken to make sure they are separated and socialized separately, etc. just like if one person was raising 2 puppies.
 

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Dobs4ever;747065 They have a lot to learn and a long way to go said:
Many of the mini "aussies" in my area are not truly mini aussies, but have papillion or other small dogs in the mix to get the smaller size. The ones I have seen did NOT have stellar temperaments.
 

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If those two dogs are living together for four months, that's four months of training and socialization that's going to go out the window. Those dogs are going to bond more to each other then to any human, and they are going to be more difficult to train -- especially without consistant leadership from their respective owners.

All in all, I think this is a bad situation to bring one puppy into let alone two. While I understand really wanting this now ( and I just got the news I wouldn't be getting in one one of THREE litters I've gotten on the list for, so trust me, I get it ) I would honestly put off getting a dog in your situation. It simply seems like you haven't thought this all the way through and that your plan has some really big holes in it.
 

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Hey everyone, I'm new to this thread, and this is my first post. First of all I'd like to just say hi to everyone, I've read a number of threads on this board and I've already learned lots from all you wonderful Doberman owners!

Now to my situation:
I'm getting a black male in about a week, he'll be 8 weeks old. I'm unbelievably excited and this will be the first dog I own that is all mine! Now I'm a university student, I'm studying biology at the University of Waterloo, and I'm on a co-op cycle, meaning that every 4 monthes I alternate in between studying, and doing co-op placements. I start a job in Ottawa in the fall, which will be roughly 2-3 weeks after I get my little baby. Now I'm going to be at work for about 8 hours a day, and I'd prefer not to have to come home at lunch. My mother however is home all day, running a daycare(plenty of child socialization), and my little brother is getting a puppy too(mini australian shepherd). So the dog will certainly not be left alone during the day. I know that doberman's form strong bonds with one owner in particular, but I'm worried that by being at work for most of the day, my puppy will become more attached to my Mother. I plan on being the one who feeds him, walks him, and does the majority of his training. I'm gonna try to limit the amount of affection and training my mother does with the puppy. Obviously she'll enforce house breaking and what not and who can resist puppy kisses here and there? Taking these precautions though, do you guys think there will be an issue with the dog seeing me as the primary owner? What else can I do to help this? I'm moving back to University after four monthes, with the dog of course, so it's very important that the dog forms a strong bond with me. Thanks everyone!
Yes, I see more than one problem.

I would strongly caution against two pups being raised in a daycare situation. Little dobersharks can be pretty rowdy. It's one thing with your own children but when you add strangers into the mix you are asking for trouble. (Oh, right she only has 5 KIDS... good lord... 5 is A LOT)

You must realize the pups will bond with the person that is the primary care given and it will not be you. They will love you but my guess is their loyalty will be towards your Mom. I don't see how your Mother is going to have time to run a daycare PLUS feed, exercise, housebreak and generally supervise two pups separately.

Your life sounds way to busy for a Dobe. I don't mean to sound harsh. These dogs deserve and need so much more than a part time owner. I honestly believe you need to take a step back and ask yourself if you were the breeder would you "REALLY" want your pup going into this home.
 
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Holier Than Now
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My comments in blue.

Not sure how smoothly this quoting is going to translate onto the website but here we go:

You did fine :)



Great response, very helpful, just a couple things. I checked out the breeders website for the mini australian shepherd and they *seem to be running a legitimate operation, just having bred for temperment as well as size. I'll raise the issue to my parents though. I'll make sure not to put a limit on the puppy kisses! I'd just like to clarify that my intention, however poorly expressed, is to limit stress/seperation anxiety, when in four monthes time, we head back to Waterloo, away from my mother.

Oh, okay, well--you are right, that comes off very differently than your original post. Much more sensible concern, there!

The pup will be fine, though. Dogs live in the moment and he will have the continuity with you.



Believe it or not, the dogs are actually only 4 days apart in age! They will only be together for 4 monthes as well.

I think as long as you stick to your stated plan for lots of separate one-on-one exercise and training, you will be fine.


House breaking will be done using positive reinforcement when the dog goes where we want him to, my mother has had countless dogs in her life, I trust her very much with this task. Also I really appreciate your concern as to me acquiring a doberman while still in university. My logic is that when I'm out of university, I may be working more, and it would help to have a well trained, calmer doberman at this point. At this point in my life, I pretty much never go to class, I will be home a lot! And when I'm on my co-op term, I will be living with my roomates, which translates into the dog not spending hours by himself. Believe me, I have been sitting on this idea for a very long time, I have done a lot of reading, and I wouldn't be getting him if I didn't think I'd provide an exceptional environment for him.

Thank you for listening, and considering, and not seeming to have a bad case of "youth-itis." :laughing:

Just really examine if your plan has any holes or not-overcomeable flaws in it, okay? This is a huge time-and-effort committment, more so than with a lot of "easier" breeds.




Great advice, I agree with you on this, and I see now how my post came off as. Like I said, I'm only going to be in Ottawa with my family for four monthes, and I'm trying to limit the stress/seperation anxiety my pup is going to experience upon moving back to waterloo with me. During study terms, I will be able to provide a lot more time for the dog than anyone who is not working from home or bringing their dog into the office. As for work terms, I'll be living with roomates, or family if placed in Ottawa. But to sum it all up, my interest lays soley in the emotional well being of my baby.

Good!



I really hope this quoting working out :praying:

I would like to address the mini aussie issue for a minute before we jump off the deep end - in May I had the opportunity to conduct the CGC testing and rally for the American Stock dog registry Nationals. It is a new registry for the mini aussies. They had conformation classes, obedience classes, CGC testing, rally and 3 days of activities. It is true that they are not yet a recognized breed by AKC, but this is how new breeds get started.

They held a cerf clinic which I was very glad to see as I was able to get 4 of my own dogs done there.

They are concerned about health and temperament and are very passionate about their mini aussies. It is true they are not in favor now by the Aussie breeders and they have a long way to go to achieve AKC status, but I question if that makes them disreputable?

They were invited to France last year and went over to help with the establishment of the mini aussie club in Europe. I think they are here to stay.

They have a lot to learn and a long way to go, but they are working hard to achieve a successful program. Should we say Herr Dobermann was wrong to breed a number of dogs together to produce the Dobermann???
Well, to be fair, these are all the same arguments that the Albino Doberman breeders use, the Doodleman Pinscher breeders, the Doberdales, and every other Tom, Joe, and Harriet that wants to "create a new breed."

We have like, 400 breeds already. Why are we messing with genetics this way? If you can't find something you like, that suits your purpose, in 400 breeds of dogs, maybe you need to go to orchids or new varieties of day lilies or something.
 
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