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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My husband and I purchased an adult dobe a few weeks ago. The woman we acquired her from had to rehome due to a messy breakup.

When we went to pick up the dog, it was just her and the kids there. She signed off the registration papers for transfer, but both hers and her ex's names are listed as owners.

I called the CKC and they won't transfer without his signature.

Ive tried to contact her a few times since and she is not responding to me now.

Does anyone have any advice on getting these papers transferred? I'd like to enter her in a show late summer, but I can't until her registration is changed.
 

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I can only speak of AKC status and they want signed papers to be legal- it would cause them a huge mess if they did otherwise and then someone came back on them. With that said after presenting my contract stating all puppies are to come back to me I have had them go ahead and reasign a dog back to me.

Does the woman still live at the same place??? If so I would go visit her and get the info on how to contact the X and then ask him to sign off on the papers. It does take a while and I hope you can accomplish it.

It might also help to have the woman write a letter stating that there is a divorce and that the husband dumped the dog on her and she could not keep it due to finances and would they please reassign the dog to you. They usually have to have the board review it. Keep us posted.
 

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If the woman and her husband are not divorced, that dog is property of the marriage with ownership to be determined by the court. If they are divorced and she was awarded custody of the dog, it should be in the divorce papers and she should be able to sign the dog over to you. If custody wasnt awarded to her, you may have to pay him for the dog, also, so he will sign the dog over. Good luck and it will take some time to get sorted. If it was to be returned to the breeder...who knows?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you for the information.

They were living common law - no divorce papers.

I'm going to make a road trip and see if I can catch her home, and get his contact information, and hopefully a letter from her stating the dog was abandoned.

Thank you again for your help.
 

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Unless you are planning on competing in conformation, agility, obedience, etc. and you can prove that you are the current owner of the dog now (vet bills, etc.), papers aren't necessary. I'm just saying it seems like it's more of a hassle than it's worth.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Unless you are planning on competing in conformation, agility, obedience, etc. and you can prove that you are the current owner of the dog now (vet bills, etc.), papers aren't necessary. I'm just saying it seems like it's more of a hassle than it's worth.
We are planning to compete - but no breeding for me. No thanks!
 

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sufferin succotash
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Kinda sounds like she dumped the dog on you so she wouldn't have to deal with the problem. She didn't know that both signatures were needed on the transfer application?

I hope her ex-partner doesn't try to take the dog since he (legally) is one of the owners.
 

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Possession is 9 tenths of the law and she did have control of the dog which would indicate the live in relinquished the dog to her. But the easiest route is to try to get his signature. Anything other than that is a big if.

I am not sure abut Canada but in AKC you can get a ilp # and still show in all events except conformation and depending on the pedigree it is unlikely you have a dog that would want to put your money into to show conformation and dealing with heat cycles can really mess up showing obedience as they can't show if they are in heat.
 

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Kinda sounds like she dumped the dog on you so she wouldn't have to deal with the problem. She didn't know that both signatures were needed on the transfer application?

I hope her ex-partner doesn't try to take the dog since he (legally) is one of the owners.
If OP pays vet bills, food, and has documentation that one of he owners signed the dog over, her partner would have a hard time getting the dog back. Surprisingly, registration papers don't mean much in a situation like this. I was reading up on dog bites and found this out, but don't know if it applies to Canada. Here's the source: Determining ownership for the purpose of affixing legal liability
 

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sufferin succotash
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We already know it's an issue as the CKC won't transfer the registration over to the OP without both original parties providing their signatures.

I'm not familiar with property laws in Canada but here's more info as it relates to the US (includes case law on common-law arranges): Pet Custody in Divorce

I suppose if the guy wanted to be a real jackhole he could play hardball and make it difficult.

If OP pays vet bills, food, and has documentation that one of he owners signed the dog over, her partner would have a hard time getting the dog back. Surprisingly, registration papers don't mean much in a situation like this. I was reading up on dog bites and found this out, but don't know if it applies to Canada. Here's the source: Determining ownership for the purpose of affixing legal liability
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Possession is 9 tenths of the law and she did have control of the dog which would indicate the live in relinquished the dog to her. But the easiest route is to try to get his signature. Anything other than that is a big if.

I am not sure abut Canada but in AKC you can get a ilp # and still show in all events except conformation and depending on the pedigree it is unlikely you have a dog that would want to put your money into to show conformation and dealing with heat cycles can really mess up showing obedience as they can't show if they are in heat.
As far as her pedigree, it wouldn't surprise me if your right. I don't have a copy of it. All I have is her parents names and reg #'s. Her sire is a Vixenvale dog, her dam was a US import, no kennel name, all I can find so far on her is she is on the z-list.

That said though, I'm not interested in breeding her so her z factor means little to me. I'm not looking to make her into a champion. My interests with her are to learn and have fun doing it, so that when I AM ready to bring a show pup into my life, I have a bit of an understanding.

She will be health tested, for my own knowledge to understand what I *may* need to deal with in the future, but as far as sinking a lot of money into a show career, it's not. I would sink the money into learning, and having fun. No different then any other dog sport.

Heats don't bother me for the same reason. I don't have to or need to attend every show, so taking a month or two off, it gives us a great opportunity to do even more training and persue other venues. She will be spayed, however, when we decide to no longer persue conformation.


If OP pays vet bills, food, and has documentation that one of he owners signed the dog over, her partner would have a hard time getting the dog back. Surprisingly, registration papers don't mean much in a situation like this. I was reading up on dog bites and found this out, but don't know if it applies to Canada. Here's the source: Determining ownership for the purpose of affixing legal liability
In all reality, he could try and be a dink, but... I have the dog. Her registration papers were signed by one owner, her chip information has been changed, her vet records have been transferred to my vet, and she will be going in for a checkup, rabies update and vwd test next week (I don't know her status and it's something I would like to know sooner then later), so she will have records listing me as owner.

As far as I'm concerned, he abandoned her, his loss. She's in a home where she is loved and cherished every day. If he thinks he can do better, sue me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
What I forgot to mention... I did get his contact information, and apparently he was aware of the dog being rehomed. So I have my fingers crossed things will go smoothly.
 

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sufferin succotash
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Hope all goes well!

I don't think she can show in the breed ring if she's Z listed. Might want to check with the CKC on this.

What I forgot to mention... I did get his contact information, and apparently he was aware of the dog being rehomed. So I have my fingers crossed things will go smoothly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hope all goes well!

I don't think she can show in the breed ring if she's Z listed. Might want to check with the CKC on this.
From what I understand she can be shown in CKC events, she *could* even be bred and her offspring reg'd and shown, etc, but I will double check. Thank you for the heads up.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it's just the DPCC that is pushing the z list? And when I say "pushing" I mean having all dogs altered to end the line. That they can still be shown and compete? I'm going to shoot off an email now that it's fresh. If that's the case I'll have her altered next week and this is all a moot point. Will be a tad disappointing, I was really looking forward to learning with her.
 

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Z list or Z factored Dobes carry the gene for albinism. With the AKC, they can still be registered, shown and even bred (if you have full registration). However, breeding them isn't something to be encouraged.
 

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sufferin succotash
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The US also keeps a list of Z dogs (DPCA). DPCA | The Doberman | Albino | ZList

I know Z listed dogs can compete in sports like agility, flyball, etc. But not 100% sure about conformation. We have lots of DPCC and DPCA members here so they might be able to shed light on this.



From what I understand she can be shown in CKC events, she *could* even be bred and her offspring reg'd and shown, etc, but I will double check. Thank you for the heads up.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I believe it's just the DPCC that is pushing the z list? And when I say "pushing" I mean having all dogs altered to end the line. That they can still be shown and compete? I'm going to shoot off an email now that it's fresh. If that's the case I'll have her altered next week and this is all a moot point. Will be a tad disappointing, I was really looking forward to learning with her.
 

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If you have her CKC number, and it sounds like you do, there's no reason you can't enter her in a show as it is. It's just that you would have to record the owners as the previous owners, and if she earned anything (a championship or a CD, etc), the CKC would send her certificate to them as they are the owners of record at this time.

BTW, I'm the one that created and maintains the DPCC Z list. If they are an accepted colour, they can compete in conformation. I will say, however, that I don't think any Vixenvale-bred Doberman ever completed a championship so it seems unlikely she would be successful.
 

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Possession is 9 tenths of the law and she did have control of the dog which would indicate the live in relinquished the dog to her. But the easiest route is to try to get his signature. Anything other than that is a big if.

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Many people believe possession is 9 tenths of the law, but that is NOT in fact true at all (at least in the US - spoke with a few people about it). I can't just take something and then say hey I have it, it's mine, I know own it. I co-owned a Vizsla with an ex BF (current when we bought her) and just because I left with her did NOT give me the right to do what I wanted with her. Legally he was still an owner.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
If you have her CKC number, and it sounds like you do, there's no reason you can't enter her in a show as it is. It's just that you would have to record the owners as the previous owners, and if she earned anything (a championship or a CD, etc), the CKC would send her certificate to them as they are the owners of record at this time.

BTW, I'm the one that created and maintains the DPCC Z list. If they are an accepted colour, they can compete in conformation. I will say, however, that I don't think any Vixenvale-bred Doberman ever completed a championship so it seems unlikely she would be successful.
Thank you for this.

I know she is on the z list. Her mother also is. What I don't understand is why her ckc number doesn't have the z in it? She has a WL number. What could that mean?

I'm really not interested in championships. I just want the opportunity to learn. I don't know any breeders (Doberman or otherwise) that can mentor me. I don't have a show background, wasn't raised with parents that did, never competed in 4H, I am NEW. Conformation has always been an interest of mine, it's something I would really like to try, but other then what I can gather off the Internet, I'm at a loss of where to start. I'm going to start looking into classes, that will help me. If I can find a mentor/friend to assist me, that would be even better.

Can anyone shed some light on her parentage? I tried looking up a website and googling, but haven't found much.

Her father was a vixenvale, her mother is just known as miffy. I can find information on her import, but that's all.
 
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