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Dont want this thread to be turned into a forced exercise debate. Its been discussed all over the place already. She is never forced... if anything, she is forcing me. If she wants to run 1 block or a mile, its up to her. I almost always stop before she wants to stop because of lack of time.
No one was trying to turn this thread into a debate. Just trying to educate you in a nice way since this is supposed to be an educational forum also. Since you know about it, great, but for the ordinary puppy owner exercise like you are talking about is a no no. That should be made plain for the rest of the new puppy owners.
 

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Cool! What a great pack you have.
I'm jealous, can't wait to have one of my own! :)
 

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Dont want this thread to be turned into a forced exercise debate. Its been discussed all over the place already. She is never forced... if anything, she is forcing me. If she wants to run 1 block or a mile, its up to her. I almost always stop before she wants to stop because of lack of time.
That's not what is meant by "forced" exercise. It doesn't mean you have to force her to do it. It means she is on leash and going at your pace or a pace you design vs say running off leash playing at the park. Jogging vs romping. Does that make more sense?

Forced exercise is tough on growth plates - things like jogging, treadmill, biking, etc. for long distances.
 

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Dont want this thread to be turned into a forced exercise debate. Its been discussed all over the place already. She is never forced... if anything, she is forcing me. If she wants to run 1 block or a mile, its up to her. I almost always stop before she wants to stop because of lack of time.
Welcome to the forum! She is very cute.

I sorry, I have to add my two cents in too, IMHO the only type of running exercise for a puppy of this age is off lead running around playing in a backyard on grass or hiking on natural nature made surfaces. She can walk on a leash on pavement, but no jogging. I also wouldn't be doing any treadmill work or having her pull your Mt. Bike up a hill either until her growth plates are closed. You are potentially looking for serious trouble down the road.
 

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She is absolutely adorable but the previous posters are 100% correct--she should NOT be on a treadmill and definitely not pulling you on a bike, on pavement, at her age. That is EXTREMELY hard on their bones and joints and can cause you all sorts of grief in the future. My boy is 16 months and I STILL will not jog him on pavement.
 

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Will the forced exercise crowd please post scientific studies to support their assertions please. I looked for a long time and I smell a potentially damaging myth/urban-legend.

This sounded reasonable
Exercise in Puppies-Are there rules? The SkeptVet Blog
Hey....you can do anything you want with your puppy! We are just trying to help you raise her. I don't need to find a study on forced exercise to know what problems it causes in humans. Being older....I've personally seen lots of people now having surgeries for repetitive motions. Knees and hips replaced, shoulder surgeries, etc. I can apply what I've learned with humans to my own dogs. Common sense tells me personally not to do any repetitive motion on a hard surface with my growing puppy. Dobe's grow so fast that I don't think at any given time their joints, muscles and bones are all stable at the same time. I am raising my second Dobe puppy in only 3 years time. They go from this soft floppy puppy to this massively muscled beast in one short year. Maybe there aren't many examples/studies out there...because....most people don't do repetitive forced exercise with their growing puppies? I don't know one person who would do that. I meet up with a large group of dog/puppy owners a few days of the week, not one has ever done forced exercise with their growing puppies. They let them free run to their hearts content. I also go to training classes, and the same information is given to puppy owners. I used to be a runner....and adopted my Weim at a year and a half old instead of a puppy...because I didn't want to wait to run with a dog. In the running world...it was just known you don't run on the road with a puppy.

Like I said....you can do what you want with your puppy. People aren't trying to stop your fun, just trying to help you potentially avoid something like an expensive, very painful ACL surgery or a growth plate problem. Dobes have enough health problems with out taking chances and adding more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 · (Edited)
No offense, but everything you posted is merely speculation and I could just as easily speculate that not giving your puppy enough exercise will result in long term health issues due to their bones, ligaments and hearts not fully developing due to owner over protectiveness.

The latest solid research on human runners has shown that the whole "running is bad for your knees" thing is a COMPLETE myth. Runners actually have NO MORE joint issues than non-runners, and show numerous health benefits over non-runners.

This is an example were speculation with no data, can actually cause people to make the wrong choices. This runners myth has been parroted by doctors, runners, and the public in general for decades and yet it was completely FALSE. Running is extremely healthy for you, and this myth may have persuaded millions of people to avoid it, and all its health benefits (and for the record im not a runner, hate it LOL)


In science, when someone proposes a hypothesis, it only takes a single good counter example to discredit it.

So if the hypothesis is that "forced exercise" in large breeds, whatever that means (peoples definitions seem ridiculously broad) causes skeletal/joint issues, then we can test this hypothesis by taking a look at the most extreme case in large breeds to see if there is an obvious effect. We would expect to see many issues in adulthood from extreme forced exercise in young dogs.

Racing *GREYHOUNDS*, which I have tons of experience with, are the most extreme example of actual forced exercise I can think of. They are raced on their undeveloped, soft bones, very young, at the most extreme speeds, every fews day. Their bones are so undeveloped that many break their hock racing or training to race (one of my dogs had a broken hock, healed and fine now)

Yet, greyhounds have fewer hip/join/skeletal issues than most breeds.
Whats more interesting is, there seems to be counter evidence.

From a vet site:
"It is interesting to note that hip dysplasia is extremely rare in racing greyhounds, but it is seen frequently in greyhounds kept as pets."

Imagine that, an example for forced exercise that causes LESS hip dysplasia!
Maybe you guys have it exactly backwards???

Since we have few dog studies to go one, like the blogger noted, child studies are used to extrapolate some meaning, and those also go against the hypothesis of the forced exercise crowd.

So in summary... what do we have???

1. An potential urban legend about forced exercise without a single scientific study to support it
2. Human children studies that go against this hypothesis
3. A large breed example that seems to indicated that extreme forced exercise actually HELPS :shock:

I know people are just trying to help but I do whats right for my puppy based on REAL evidence, not mere unsupported hearsay, and the real evidence seems to indicate that the forced exercise crowd may have it exactly backwards and may be doing harm to their dogs.
 

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Fantastic photos and collage. Love the greyhounds, especially in the "afterburner" photos. My whippet can't get there anymore at nearly 16 years old.

Thanks so much for sharing! I have looked over the photos many times, attempting to notice all the nuances of the interaction between the pup and hounds. Too Cool!

Won't sound off on your "methods", but I have learned to trust the judgment of most the people on this forum. Still, they are great photos.
 

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Hmmmm I can see that your mind is set.....you feel secure in what you are doing. I won't interfere any further, I'm not one to enjoy conflict.

Just an FYI My dogs are exercised....a lot. Even my 4 year old with DCM still gets to run his heart out every single day. I won't change what he loves to do best because of the disease. I hike in wooded areas with my boys everyday of the week, rain, snow, sun, heat. There is no better exercise then climbing mountains, running and jumping over logs and swimming in lakes and rivers. I am blessed to live in an area where all that is available right outside my door. I started my new puppy out on his first hike the morning after picking him up in Canada, he was 12 weeks old. He even saw his first bear that morning! Neither of my boys ever has to step foot on a man made surface for exercise. I guess not everyone has available what I do and you need to do what you feel is best for your girl.

PS...you can check out my blogs and see some great photos of my boys hiking, swimming, and exercising.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
The very same claim can be made of you. Your mind seems set on upholding unsupported hearsay.

My mind is wide open, I simply require real evidence, real studies, something, not unsupported hearsay. Otherwise, I might as well believe in bigfoot :)

We both hold positions, but I have at least provided SOME evidence for mine.

I am still waiting for a single person to post something other than hearsay for this hypothesis. Until then, I rationally cannot take it seriously and group thought does not qualify as its been shown numerous times to be completely flawed.
 

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The very same claim can be made of you. Your mind seems set on upholding unsupported hearsay.

My mind is wide open, I simply require real evidence, real studies, something, not unsupported hearsay. Otherwise, I might as well believe in bigfoot :)

We both hold positions, but I have at least provided SOME evidence for mine.

I am still waiting for a single person to post something other than hearsay for this hypothesis. Until then, I rationally cannot take it seriously and group thought does not qualify as its been shown numerous times to be completely flawed.
Yeah I guess you are right about that, I am going to listen to my vet, trainer and breeder....and despite no concrete evidence continue to err on the side of caution with my new baby. You said your pup comes from a reputable breeder, what does she/he think about the forced exercise issue? I'm going to guess that 99.99 % of the breeders on this forum don't support forced exercise.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Vets, trainers and breeders are also susceptible to hearsay/myths.

Ive had them tell me things I knew for a fact are not true. For example, Ive given my vet, who is really good over all, 30 pages of printed out scientific studies on a point we disagreed on, and she was like whoa, I was totally wrong.

You HAVE to check your facts. Ill error on the side of science/reason instead of hearsay.
 

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Vets, trainers and breeders are also susceptible to hearsay/myths.

Ive had them tell me things I knew for a fact are not true. For example, Ive given my vet, who is really good over all, 30 pages of printed out scientific studies on a point we disagreed on, and she was like whoa, I was totally wrong.

You HAVE to check your facts. Ill error on the side of science/reason instead of hearsay.
Where are your supporting facts for large breeds in specific?
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
The burden of proof is on the people asserting that there is something terrible about forced exercise.

I requested evidence.

They failed to produce.

Thus I reject their hypothesis.



My previous post showed some counter examples.
 
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